No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

[Brightfame52]

You're saying that about this verse:

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.

What do you mean exactly? Do you understand that someone can be drawn to Him by the preaching of the gospel and by the Holy Spirit, but that the Holy Spirit can then be resisted? God sovereignly gave man free will to choose whether to accept His offer of salvation or not because He doesn't force Himself upon anyone.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

God graciously offers salvation to all people and Jesus draws all people to Himself by way of the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit can be resisted and God's offer can be rejected.

Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.

Yeah Jn 12:32 is all about Christ wiil Notice

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

 

[Brightfame52]

Jesus said He would draw all people to Himself (John 12:32), but not all people are converted, so you are wrong.

He was only lifted up for them He would convert to Himself all of them. Isaiah calls them His seed Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

 

[d taylor]

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How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?


It is, hear about belief in Jesus gives Eternal Life, then the person believes in Jesus, then the person receives The Holy Spirit.
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It is not, a person is born again, then they believe in Jesus and then receives The Holy Spirit.

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[BBAS 64]

John 12:32 has to do with both the fact that Jesus draws all people to Himself AND the type of death He would die. It doesn't have to be one or the other. You're trying to come up with an excuse to not accept that He draws all people to Himself. He does. But, some then put their faith and trust in Him and some reject Him. He doesn't force Himself upon anyone. Everyone must choose how to respond to His drawing.

Good day, SJ

The grammar does not support an "and" clause... no matter how much you wish it did.

He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die.

Thayer Definition:
1) that (thing), this (thing)
Part of Speech: pronoun
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: neuter singular nominative or accusative case of G3778


Sorry.

In Him,

Bill

 

[BBAS 64]

And Reformed theology also teaches that God hates everyone else so much that He doesn't even give them any opportunity to be saved and ensures that they spend eternity in eternal torment. That is the Reformed understand of the God who is love (1 John 4:8). Unbelievable.

Good day, SJ

I would like to see that... I do believe that God is love and loves every one he just does not love every one the same.


The loving merciful God loves those he chooses to adopts as His own in one way.
Those that are not His children he loves just not in the same way.

I love my Mom in a different way than I love my sister
I love my neighbor lady in a different way than I love my Gram.

You might find this useful

God's Love and God's Hatred | Reformed Bible Studies & Devotionals at Ligonier.org

Ligonier Ministries, founded by R.C. Sproul, exists to proclaim, teach, and defend the holiness of God in all its fullness to as many people as possible.

learn.ligonier.org

Is It Biblical to Say That God Loves Everyone?

In this brief clip from our 2017 National Conference, R.C. Sproul answers the question, “Is it biblical to say that God loves everyone?” Transcript "Often I hea

www.ligonier.org

snip" When we look at the concept of the love of God in Scripture, we see distinctions that have to be made. Historically and theologically we distinguish among three types of divine love. There is the love of benevolence, where God has a kind spirit to the whole world and His benevolent will, His benevolent love falls on everybody. But there's also the sense in which in the Bible the love of God is defined in terms of God's beneficence, that is that's not just simply what His attitude is towards the world but how He displays that goodness universally—the rain falls upon the just as well as on the unjust. And so that universal dimension of the love of God is manifest but usually when we're talking about the love of God in popular language, what we’re really talking about is what we call God's love of complacency. And that term, the love of complacency, is not used in the way in which we use the term complacency in our age, in our culture. Our term of complacency means smugness, self-satisfaction, that sort of thing."



In HIm,

Bill

 

[BBAS 64]

He wants to have mercy on everyone (Romans 11:30-32). Why do you not look at the whole story?

Good day, SJ

I contend that if he wanted to have Mercy on all he could in fact choose to do that.

Do you believe he wants to and he is unable to do so?

I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy. Mercy is a verb he "wills" to do it.

Now I guess it would be fair to say he has Mercy even to those he created that he knows he would condemn. Him waiting to do so and sustaining them would be an act of Mercy, would you agree?

In Him,

Bill

 

[d taylor]

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R. C. Sproul is certainly not someone to listen to, he was not even sure he is even a born again child of God. That is a sign of someone basing their eternal life on actions they are doing and will do. I am sure he believes he will be at the great white throne judgment to be judged to see if he makes it.

4:33 time mark if you do not want to listen the whole video

 

[bling]

So you believe folk is God now and raises themselves up from the dead. Lost folk now find themselves, man gets the credit and not God Lk 15:24

For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Now " is found" is in the passive voice, meaning he didnt find himself, someone found him. Its the same thing being alive, he didnt make himself alive.

I am not suggesting anyone raises themselves from the dead. Realizing where you have gotten yourself and where you are heading is not getting you out of the deserved situation you are in. Going to the father (turning to God) does not get you out of the situation, but the father can get you out.
God (and I would think the father in the parable) knows where you/son are, but that does not mean your found ready to get out of your bad situation. The father saw (found) the young son at a distance and ran to him.
If we are not ready to leave our bad situation, God knows that and cannot help, until we are found ready.

 

[bling]

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A born again child of God can walk away from their faith and go back into the world. When a child of God does this they become dead to God, until they repent and seek fellowship with God their father again. If they never repent God may take their earthly life or let their worldly life take a toll on the born again child and cause them to suffer for going back into the world. But they never cease to be a born again child of God.

If you are "dead", I am told you cannot repent or seek fellowship with God, so if a dead former Christian can, why can't a dead Non Christian do it or are you redefining "dead"?

 

[bling]

Yes to Adam and Eve since they were living in communion with God as it was before the fall. In fact, in history, they were the only ones who could have made a truly free-will choice.

If they could have free will, then is God powerful enough to give others free will choices? Why not everyone?

 

[bling]

Free will implies that people are free to choose whatever they want (like a sinner can choose to follow God), when in reality they can only choose according to their nature. You explained that nicely, thanks.

No, a person can make both free will and instinctive or environmental choices. There is only the need for a few limited free will mental choice (they do not have to be acted on), like mentally you can lust after a woman and never physically do anything with that woman, but the thought is a sin.
Following God is a righteous choice a practicing sinner cannot make, but the sinner for purely selfish reasons can be willing to humbly accept pure undeserved charity, even while hating the charity giver.

 

[d taylor]

If you are "dead", I am told you cannot repent or seek fellowship with God, so if a dead former Christian can, why can't a dead Non Christian do it or are you redefining "dead"?

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The son in the parable was not physically dead. Lost Son, not Lost Sonship

 

[bling]

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The son in the parable was not physically dead. Lost Son, not Lost Sonship

Jesus, who could use any words He wanted chose twice to describe the young son as "dead" in the parable, so yes, he was not physically dead. We talk about unbelieving sinners as being "dead", so by Jesus' example these sinners can also do stuff like the prodigal son.

 

[A New Dawn]

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I sure am, because The Bible splits hairs when it come to what a person must do and what God requires to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life. And The Bible never states to receive Eternal Life follow Jesus. The Bible always states to receive Eternal Life, believe in Jesus.

I could write another 500 words on this, but i will just post a link to an article about this and you can read it if you like.

The New Testament Understanding of Following Jesus – Grace Evangelical Society

Do you think all those people Jesus said “Follow me” to picked up and followed a stranger for any reason other than that Jesus had already turned their hearts to him?

He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. That’s how.

 

[A New Dawn]

If they could have free will, then is God powerful enough to give others free will choices? Why not everyone?

Because they walked and talked with God! We don’t. We live in rebellion to God. Sin is all around us. We can only make choices that align with our fallen state because we have a fallen nature. Until our hearts are turned BY GOD and ow have a redeemed nature and we are given the gift of the Holy Spirit to help us we cannot freely choose ANYTHING having to do with God. That is the whole point of John 6 and Romans 3.

 

[A New Dawn]

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The son in the parable was not physically dead. Lost Son, not Lost Sonship

He was spiritually dead. This is the point of the conversation. Dead (whether physically or spiritually) cannot make decisions to choose God.

 

[d taylor]

Jesus, who could use any words He wanted chose twice to describe the young son as "dead" in the parable, so yes, he was not physically dead. We talk about unbelieving sinners as being "dead", so by Jesus' example these sinners can also do stuff like the prodigal son.

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No an unbeliever can not repent and return to the family of God, because an unbeliever is not a son (or daughter) and has never been in the family of God.

If the unbeliever believes in Jesus and becomes a child of God (son or daughter) and then they go back into the world.
Then yes they can repent and be welcomed back into fellowship in the family of God, but they are not being welcome back as a person who has never been a son or daughter (unbeliever), but they are being welcomed back into the family as a lost son or daughter

 

[d taylor]

He was spiritually dead. This is the point of the conversation. Dead (whether physically or spiritually) cannot make decisions to choose God.

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No he was not spiritually dead, he never ceased being a son of God. A born again child of God can never be unborn

 

[A New Dawn]

No, a person can make both free will and instinctive or environmental choices. There is only the need for a few limited free will mental choice (they do not have to be acted on), like mentally you can lust after a woman and never physically do anything with that woman, but the thought is a sin.
Following God is a righteous choice a practicing sinner cannot make, but the sinner for purely selfish reasons can be willing to humbly accept pure undeserved charity, even while hating the charity giver.

I can only assume you mean sinner to mean an unredeemed non-believer. Correct me if I am wrong, but going forward on that assumption …..

If a sinner could, for purely selfish reasons, humble himself to accept undeserved charity while hating the charity giver (wow, that scenario is so far out there I’m having trouble envisioning it) then he would be, in essence saving himself, or at the very least making himself saveable. But his motivation in the matter (“for purely selfish reasons” (your stipulation)) would make salvation impossible. It is also heretical. You cannot save yourself under any circumstances. That was the whole purpose of the law. To prove that you can’t save yourself.

 

[A New Dawn]

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No he was not spiritually dead, he never ceased being a son of God. A born again child of God can never be unborn

What is your proof that he was spiritually alive in the beginning of the parable?