Trump threatens to cut Calif.’s federal funds if trans athletes ‘illegally’ compete in women’s events

[BCP1928]

What? This has nothing to do with cultural expectations. That’s a red herring.

Many women have a cultural expectation of not having men in their bathrooms. Isn't that what we are talking about? How they feel uncomfortable when it happens?

 

[ralliann]

Of course, but they have no more right than men to be protected from having their cultural expectations challenged. And there appears to be no moral issue involved.

It is not about culture, it is about "feelings". A man chooses to use a woman's bathroom because of his feels like it.

 

[NxNW]

It’s about respecting the rights of others.

What right is that, exactly?

 

[NxNW]

The rights to have their privacy and safety taken seriously.

Where is this alleged right enumerated?

 

[ralliann]

What? This has nothing to do with cultural expectations. That’s a red herring.

Exactly! Some feelings are given "rights". While other "feelings" are invalid and even considered void of morality.

 

[RileyG]

Where is this alleged right enumerated?

It’s common courtesy, regardless.

 

[RileyG]

What right is that, exactly?

Women not wanting men in their personal spaces. Women’s rights matter over some sexually confused men.

 

[RileyG]

Exactly! Some feelings are given "rights". While other "feelings" are invalid and even considered void of morality.

Couldn’t have said it better myself!

 

[rjs330]

Men using women's bathrooms is not customary and many people feel uncomfortable when their customs are violated, especially when the customs involve intimate personal habits like going to the bathroom. That discomfort is real and should be acknowledged, but it is not a moral issue--unless one of you can tell me what the moral issue is.

I provided it for you. The right to privacy and the right to feel safe from predators or from perverts is also a moral issue of right and wrong. Do women have that personal right or not? Thats the moral question.

Do mentally ill men, perverts or predators have a moral right to invade women's spaces? That is a moral question as well. The question is who's morality will prevail?

 

[rjs330]

Where is this alleged right enumerated?

We aren't talking about LEGAL rights enumerated in a document like the Constitution. Thats why this is a morality issue of ones personal rights vs another's personal rights. Who's morality will triumph? Who's sense of right and wrong will win out?

A right can be enumerated and just because one isnt currently enumerated in statute doesn't mean it can't be.

But for now it remains a personal morality issue and a belief that it goes against the morality of women who want to have privacy and a feeling of safety from perverts or predators.

 

[BCP1928]

We aren't talking about LEGAL rights enumerated in a document like the Constitution. Thats why this is a morality issue of ones personal rights vs another's personal rights. Who's morality will triumph? Who's sense of right and wrong will win out?

A right can be enumerated and just because one isnt currently enumerated in statute doesn't mean it can't be.

But for now it remains a personal morality issue and a belief that it goes against the morality of women who want to have privacy and a feeling of safety from perverts or predators.

If it's not a legal right then where is the power of the Government to enforce it?

 

[NxNW]

Women not wanting men in their personal spaces. Women’s rights matter over some sexually confused men.

A moment ago it was a courtesy; now it's a right again. Very nebulous, whatever it is.

 

[NxNW]

If it's not a legal right then where is the power of the Government to enforce it?

Apparently it's the government's job to enforce courtesy now.

You'd think they could start with the Oval Office.

 

[ralliann]

If it's not a legal right then where is the power of the Government to enforce it?

It is about assigning "rights" to certain "feelings".

 

[BCP1928]

We aren't talking about LEGAL rights enumerated in a document like the Constitution. Thats why this is a morality issue of ones personal rights vs another's personal rights. Who's morality will triumph? Who's sense of right and wrong will win out?

A right can be enumerated and just because one isnt currently enumerated in statute doesn't mean it can't be.

But for now it remains a personal morality issue and a belief that it goes against the morality of women who want to have privacy and a feeling of safety from perverts or predators.

How does it go against their morality? What moral principles is involved? Let me give you a couple of examples, and you can perhaps point to the moral issue. My daughter is a machinist. She is the only woman machinist in the place, but there are other women, clerks, QC techs, etc.who also spend time on the shop floor where there is only one bathroom, an old-fashioned factory bathroom with stalls along one wall, a tin trough along the other and a big round sink in the middle. All the people on the shop floor, men and women, use it when they have to go. There is a ladies room, but it's upstairs way at the back of the offices and it's easier to use the shop floor bathroom. What is the moral issue here?
My son works for a start-up in an old Navy airplane hanger. The workforce is about fifty-fifty men/women. There is only one bathroom, quite a large and spacious one with the urinals tucked in a corner where you can't even see them when you walk in. When they moved in it was in a dilapidated condition, so the company thought to redecorate it. By common consent there is still only one bathroom, because to cut it up into two smaller and less pleasant rooms was thought unnecessary. What is the moral issue in this case?

 

[JSRG]

So, you agree that there is no such right enshrined in the Constitution, nor in state law.

In the Constitution? No. In state law? Maybe; which state are we talking about?

So just where is this alleged right that RileyG seems to think exists?

As I said in the message you were responding to:

"It should go without saying that it is possible to protect rights not found in the Constitution. There is no right to an abortion in the US constitution, but that does not prevent states from passing laws declaring it to be a right. And one can refer to something as a "right" even if it is not formally protected by the constitution or law (although it obviously means there is no legal problem in violating it)."

EDIT: Due to some kind of weird mix-up, the quotes above are attributed to A2SG, and even link back to a post from A2SG that does not have the above statements. The above quotes are actually from NxNW's post here.

 

[RileyG]

A moment ago it was a courtesy; now it's a right again. Very nebulous, whatever it is.

Regardless, women don't need to have men invade their personal spaces.

 

[rjs330]

If it's not a legal right then where is the power of the Government to enforce it?

The government enforces moral rights all the time. As they do so it becomes a legal right. I'm actually surprised you asked that question.

 

[NxNW]

"It should go without saying that it is possible to protect rights not found in the Constitution.

(You seem to have misattributed my words to someone else)

But how does the government enforce something that's not the law?

 

[A2SG]

Oh, don't worry, we are .

I await your evidence. Please keep me informed as to when I'll actually see it.

-- A2SG, if you don't mind, I won't be holding my breath...