California Bill Would Prohibit ICE Officers From Wearing Masks in the State

[GoldenBoy89]

uh, because I believe my eyes when she presents video evidence to back it up. You did not even look at the link did you?

I did. It’s a week old. Try to keep up.

That’s why you seem to think there’s still looting, rioting and vandalism going on.

We also got the wildfires put out, in case you thought that was still a thing here too.

ok - let's look at a picture of the 'unknown assailants" and the newest byline - undercover officers.

What am I supposed to be seeing here?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Why not just stick to the topic of the thread?

I am, the other posted had stated:

An ordinary LEO is not allowed to randomly stop people on the street and demand to see their identification or to cuff them and rough them up while they wait for the ID to be checked out. Unidentified individuals armed and masked doing it deserve doxxing.


I had replied explaining that specialized agencies (under the current framework) are given some power that "ordinary LEOs" don't have.


So much like the IRS can go snooping around in peoples financial records without a warrant and refuse to provide discovery if are looking to nail someone, ICE is allowed to use unmarked vehicles (for purposes of not tipping off the whole neighborhood that 'the fuzz is coming, everyone hide'), and conceal their identities because of stuff like this:

Public database of ICE agents' personal details sparks backlash

A spokesperson for the organization which made the database told Newsweek "People carrying out violent state policy should not be protected by anonymity."

www.newsweek.com

ICE Agents' Identities Exposed by Activists In Southern California


The Department of Homeland Security, reports that assaults on immigration officers have surged by 413 percent. This has in turn prompted officials to argue that masks are necessary to protect both the agent's identities, as well as their families. High-profile incidents such as the posting of agents’ photos, names, and addresses by activists in Southern California have led to explicit threats and required some to have around-the-clock police protection due to death threats.

If I used doxxing tactics to publish the identities (names, numbers, addresses, and pictures) of IRS employees who were performing tax audits, or of election workers who were counting votes in democratic-leaning areas, and those had led to threats by right-wingers, Democrats would think it was a much bigger deal.

...I say that because that's happened, and they did.

...but we could always go with the approach of, anyone responsible for publishing that database that doxxes an ICE agent, and it leads to threats, the publisher of that information gets the Rudy Giuliani treatment that was doled out when he doxxed those election workers.

 

[SimplyMe]

I am, the other posted had stated:

An ordinary LEO is not allowed to randomly stop people on the street and demand to see their identification or to cuff them and rough them up while they wait for the ID to be checked out. Unidentified individuals armed and masked doing it deserve doxxing.


I had replied explaining that specialized agencies (under the current framework) are given some power that "ordinary LEOs" don't have.


So much like the IRS can go snooping around in peoples financial records without a warrant and refuse to provide discovery if are looking to nail someone, ICE is allowed to use unmarked vehicles (for purposes of not tipping off the whole neighborhood that 'the fuzz is coming, everyone hide'), and conceal their identities because of stuff like this:

Public database of ICE agents' personal details sparks backlash

A spokesperson for the organization which made the database told Newsweek "People carrying out violent state policy should not be protected by anonymity."

www.newsweek.com

ICE Agents' Identities Exposed by Activists In Southern California


The Department of Homeland Security, reports that assaults on immigration officers have surged by 413 percent. This has in turn prompted officials to argue that masks are necessary to protect both the agent's identities, as well as their families. High-profile incidents such as the posting of agents’ photos, names, and addresses by activists in Southern California have led to explicit threats and required some to have around-the-clock police protection due to death threats.

So were their faces uncovered before the doxing started? From what I've seen, no, they've been covered the whole time, which makes me think having faces covered and not wearing name tags is working.

In fact, just a novel idea, the fact that they have their faces covered and remain unidentified could be a primary reason why people feel a need to dox them, since otherwise these officers would remain anonymous.

 

[BCP1928]

I am, the other posted had stated:

An ordinary LEO is not allowed to randomly stop people on the street and demand to see their identification or to cuff them and rough them up while they wait for the ID to be checked out. Unidentified individuals armed and masked doing it deserve doxxing.


I had replied explaining that specialized agencies (under the current framework) are given some power that "ordinary LEOs" don't have.


So much like the IRS can go snooping around in peoples financial records without a warrant and refuse to provide discovery if are looking to nail someone, ICE is allowed to use unmarked vehicles (for purposes of not tipping off the whole neighborhood that 'the fuzz is coming, everyone hide'), and conceal their identities because of stuff like this:

Public database of ICE agents' personal details sparks backlash

A spokesperson for the organization which made the database told Newsweek "People carrying out violent state policy should not be protected by anonymity."

www.newsweek.com

ICE Agents' Identities Exposed by Activists In Southern California


The Department of Homeland Security, reports that assaults on immigration officers have surged by 413 percent. This has in turn prompted officials to argue that masks are necessary to protect both the agent's identities, as well as their families. High-profile incidents such as the posting of agents’ photos, names, and addresses by activists in Southern California have led to explicit threats and required some to have around-the-clock police protection due to death threats.

It would certainly be un-American of us to suggest that ICE change it's methods to something more efficient and less disruptive. Especially now that they are going to b chasing socialists rather than illegal immigrants.

 

[BCP1928]

So were their faces uncovered before the doxing started? From what I've seen, no, they've been covered the whole time, which makes me think having faces covered and not wearing name tags is working.

They started out masked and in hoodies. Now that they're decked out in cosplay camo they're easier to spot as maybe some kind of law enforcement.

In fact, just a novel idea, the fact that they have their faces covered and remain unidentified could be a primary reason why people feel a need to dox them, since otherwise these officers would remain anonymous.

They would have to identify themselves if they actually brought any of their "suspects" to court.

 

[BPPLEE]

What fool is sending undercover ICE agents to raid Home Depots and make arrests at federal court houses?

They serve in more than one capacity

 

[GoldenBoy89]

I am, the other posted had stated:

An ordinary LEO is not allowed to randomly stop people on the street and demand to see their identification or to cuff them and rough them up while they wait for the ID to be checked out. Unidentified individuals armed and masked doing it deserve doxxing.


I had replied explaining that specialized agencies (under the current framework) are given some power that "ordinary LEOs" don't have.


So much like the IRS can go snooping around in peoples financial records without a warrant and refuse to provide discovery if are looking to nail someone, ICE is allowed to use unmarked vehicles (for purposes of not tipping off the whole neighborhood that 'the fuzz is coming, everyone hide'), and conceal their identities because of stuff like this:

Public database of ICE agents' personal details sparks backlash

A spokesperson for the organization which made the database told Newsweek "People carrying out violent state policy should not be protected by anonymity."

www.newsweek.com

ICE Agents' Identities Exposed by Activists In Southern California


The Department of Homeland Security, reports that assaults on immigration officers have surged by 413 percent. This has in turn prompted officials to argue that masks are necessary to protect both the agent's identities, as well as their families. High-profile incidents such as the posting of agents’ photos, names, and addresses by activists in Southern California have led to explicit threats and required some to have around-the-clock police protection due to death threats.

If I used doxxing tactics to publish the identities (names, numbers, addresses, and pictures) of IRS employees who were performing tax audits, or of election workers who were counting votes in democratic-leaning areas, and those had led to threats by right-wingers, Democrats would think it was a much bigger deal.

...I say that because that's happened, and they did.

...but we could always go with the approach of, anyone responsible for publishing that database that doxxes an ICE agent, and it leads to threats, the publisher of that information gets the Rudy Giuliani treatment that was doled out when he doxxed those election workers.

Well when an ICE agent finally gets iced because of their own hostile tactics, you won’t see me shedding tears in any of the predictable threads we’ll see here.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I am, the other posted had stated:

An ordinary LEO is not allowed to randomly stop people on the street and demand to see their identification or to cuff them and rough them up while they wait for the ID to be checked out. Unidentified individuals armed and masked doing it deserve doxxing.

Remember, this is about random stops and ID demands (ie, lack of probable cause).

I had replied explaining that specialized agencies (under the current framework) are given some power that "ordinary LEOs" don't have.


So much like the IRS can go snooping around in peoples financial records without a warrant and refuse to provide discovery if are looking to nail someone,

Are you sure about that? Pretty sure the IRS needs probable cause to get to fin. records.

ICE is allowed to use unmarked vehicles (for purposes of not tipping off the whole neighborhood that 'the fuzz is coming, everyone hide'), and conceal their identities because of stuff like this:

This isn't about unmarked cars. All police agencies use these when enforcing warrants, but the moment they start the execution of the warrant, the badges/logos come out.

 

[Hans Blaster]

They serve in more than one capacity

I renew my question, what fool would deploy undercover officers in very public arrests that might blow their cover?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

So were their faces uncovered before the doxing started? From what I've seen, no, they've been covered the whole time, which makes me think having faces covered and not wearing name tags is working.

In fact, just a novel idea, the fact that they have their faces covered and remain unidentified could be a primary reason why people feel a need to dox them, since otherwise these officers would remain anonymous.

Actually, the doxxing of ICE agents goes back before the current administration.

ICEPatrol: WikiLeaks Publishes ICE Agent Archive Online

The Julian Assange-led platform said on Twitter that the release would be an "important public resource."

www.newsweek.com

It started happening during the first Trump administration after the wikileaks incident.

If you go back and look at photos from operation cross check back during the Obama years and prior to the 2018 wikileaks incident. (the series of workplace & apartment raids and sweeps), you'll see that they're not wearing masks for the most part (except for when handling HVT with suspected gang ties)

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www.cnn.com

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Actually, the doxxing of ICE agents goes back before the current administration.

ICEPatrol: WikiLeaks Publishes ICE Agent Archive Online

The Julian Assange-led platform said on Twitter that the release would be an "important public resource."

www.newsweek.com

It started happening during the first Trump administration after the wikileaks incident.

If you go back and look at photos from operation cross check back during the Obama years and prior to the 2018 wikileaks incident. (the series of workplace & apartment raids and sweeps), you'll see that they're not wearing masks for the most part (except for when handling HVT with suspected gang ties)

View attachment 366467View attachment 366468
View attachment 366469View attachment 366470

Loading…

www.cnn.com

Looks much less hostile and more like proper police work. Thanks for the contrast to what we’re seeing today.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

It would certainly be un-American of us to suggest that ICE change it's methods to something more efficient and less disruptive. Especially now that they are going to b chasing socialists rather than illegal immigrants.

....hmmm, now that's an interesting idea for a grand bargain.

Each socialist that's out their the streets waving another country's flag (you know, the flags of the nations that the undocumented folks are begging not to be sent back to), can offer to give their citizenship to an undocumented person and go back to that other country in their place.


Hey you there! with the #resist shirt waving the Venezuelan flag, what's your name...Skyler is it?

Look, we have Luis here, and he pleading with us not to have to go back to Venezuela, so since you seem to think highly of it, you can go there and we'll keep Luis here in the US, sound like a plan?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Looks much less hostile and more like proper police work. Thanks for the contrast to what we’re seeing today.

Operation cross check involved the same tactics of workplace sweeps and apartment raids...

The agents didn't need to wear the "scary masks" at that point because a bunch of anarcho-leftist keyboard warriors hadn't started uploading their home addresses and pictures on the dark web yet.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Are you sure about that? Pretty sure the IRS needs probable cause to get to fin. records.

eh... AFAIK, it kinda depends on what exactly you're talking about. I keep an eye on various discussion boards, subreddits, etc related to small businesses and resellers, and it's not uncommon to find people complaining about waking up one morning to find that their bank or credit card processor has frozen their account, and the tens of thousands of dollars within it, with no warning or explanation. I don't know all the ins-and-outs, but my understanding is that what happens is that some entity (perhaps the IRS, perhaps a bank) detects a pattern of activity that they find suspicious, and they go straight to DEFCON 1 and shut down everything, presuming the person is guilty. IIRC, the lack of information sharing isn't merely a bureaucratic artifact; it's actually written into the statute - the bank isn't allowed to tell the customer what's happened or what got them flagged.

I'm going from memory of second hand accounts, so I'm sure there are a couple details that aren't quite right, but that's the gist.

 

[BCP1928]

....hmmm, now that's an interesting idea for a grand bargain.

Each socialist that's out their the streets waving another country's flag (you know, the flags of the nations that the undocumented folks are begging not to be sent back to), can offer to give their citizenship to an undocumented person and go back to that other country in their place.


Hey you there! with the #resist shirt waving the Venezuelan flag, what's your name...Skyler is it?

Look, we have Luis here, and he pleading with us not to have to go back to Venezuela, so since you seem to think highly of it, you can go there and we'll keep Luis here in the US, sound like a plan?

This is a free country. We can wave any flag we like. But if you are going to crack down on that, why just target socialists?

 

[BCP1928]

Operation cross check involved the same tactics of workplace sweeps and apartment raids...

The agents didn't need to wear the "scary masks" at that point because a bunch of anarcho-leftist keyboard warriors hadn't started uploading their home addresses and pictures on the dark web yet.

Maybe because they didn't deserve it then. But your stereotype is great. "Anarcho-leftist keyboard warriors" that's a keeper. Good work. Now you can denounce me as being in favor of doxxing. I'm not, but I can certainly understand why people would be in this case.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Are you sure about that? Pretty sure the IRS needs probable cause to get to fin. records.

Supreme Court: Yes, the IRS Can Secretly Obtain Your Bank Records

The Supreme Court has sided with the IRS in a case that involves owing the IRS money, bank records, taxpayer privacy, and notice.

www.kiplinger.com

Supreme Court Rules That IRS Can Request Bank Account Info Without Notice To Third Parties

The IRS does not need to notify third parties when requesting a summons for banking records in collection matters.

www.forbes.com

Under the Bank Secrecy Act and the third-party doctrine (upheld in United States v. Miller, 1976), courts have ruled that individuals have no reasonable expectation of privacy in records held by third parties.

The IRS can issue an administrative summons (26 U.S. Code § 7602) to those third parties to obtain financial records without needing a warrant or showing probable cause. The IRS only needs to show that the records are relevant to an inquiry - a much lower standard than probable cause.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

This is a free country. We can wave any flag we like. But if you are going to crack down on that, why just target socialists?

I was being tongue in cheek there pointing out the irony of the fact that they're waving the flags of countries that people desperately don't want to get sent back to.

 

[BCP1928]

I was being tongue in cheek there pointing out the irony of the fact that they're waving the flags of countries that people desperately don't want to get sent back to.

Of course they are. Mexicans don't stop being Mexicans just because they have snuck into the US to work. In particular, Mexicans have a justified cultural claim to LA and since the Right is waging this as a culture war, the Mexican flag is probably appropriate.

 

[BPPLEE]

This is a free country. We can wave any flag we like. But if you are going to crack down on that, why just target socialists?

Better yet, every protester can take in, house and feed a few illegal immigrants. I'm sure they don't really want to leave this country they hate so much