The relationship between the Ten Commandments, the Sabbath, and the New Covenant

[SabbathBlessings]

According to the scripture even stealing is taking the name of YHWH Elohim in vain, (for as you surely already know, a name is much more than a simple spelling in the scripture/Hebrew mindset).

Proverbs 30:8-9 KJV
8 Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:
9 Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the LORD? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain.

"You shall not steal", as we know, is the eighth commandment, (Exodus 20:15). Therefore if to break the eighth commandment also violates the third commandment, no doubt then, abrogating the fourth commandment also violates the third commandment: for the Shabbat commandment immediately follows the third commandment.

I know you already know the following so consider this for others who may not be as informed on the order.

Exodus 20:7-15 KJV
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. [#3]
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. [#4]
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. [#5]
13 Thou shalt not kill. [#6]
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery. [#7]
15 Thou shalt not steal. [#8]

Good point.

Most think using God’s name in vain just means in our language, but it’s actually also in our actions. If we are proclaiming to be a Christian, or follower of Christ, but not acting in such a manner, it really is using God’s name in vain. The Ten Commandments are all interconnected, if you break one, are also breaking others, and breaking one we break them all. James 2:11-12

 

[Studyman]

Bob S said:
So you admit Jesus fulfilled (brought to an end) the prophecies concerning His first coming, yet deny He fulfilled (brought to an end) the Sinai covenant laws. How can I trust anything you are trying to proclaim?

Your response to my statement has absolutely nothing to do with the statement. You are in complete denial of the real truth, and anything you write, I have to take with a grain of salt. If, at some point, you agree to respond to the topic, I will be glad to continue the debate.

Bob,

The Words you are rejecting are the Christ's. They are not garbage just because I am the one who types them. You have been taught by the prince of this world, we all have. Abraham was, Caleb was, Paul was, John was. All these men "were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past they walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:" They all judged God's Laws, some a moral, some as immoral.

But all of these men repented at God's calling, and "submitted themselves" to the Christ of the Bible. A Priest whose Word's they can Trust. All I am doing here, is pointing out the difference between the gospel you have been taught and are now promoting to others, versus what the Christ actually teaches. You can read His Words for yourself. But HE said to consider "ALL" of His Words, not just the ones quoted by the "other voice" in the Garden.

John 14: 28 Ye have heard "how I said unto you", I go away, "and come again" unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. 29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe. 30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: "for the prince of this world cometh", and hath nothing in me.

I hear Him Bob, but "many" who call Him Lord, Lord, do not. They can, but their adopted religions, with its high days and judgments and sabbaths and images of God are more precious to them, than the Word of God, and giving up these treasures for God, is just too great a cost. Like the rich man. As a result, they are convinced, as was Eve, that they shall surely never die.

Jesus exposed this in His Prophesy about "Many" Christians, when He returns, in Matt. 7:22 and their reaction when they see their Judgment. "Wait a minute Jesus, don't you know who we are"?

Nevertheless, It is Jesus Himself that points out that "ALL" has not yet been fulfilled. Shall I not warn my brothers about the insidious lie that has snared so many, that Jesus has already returned, and the Judgment is over?

John 14: 1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: "if it were not so", I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 "And if I go" and prepare a place for you, "I will come again", and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Matt. 24: 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. 45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord "when he cometh" shall find so doing.

Men often reference Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity "a change also of the law". And they use it to justify their rejection of God's Commandments, judgments and Statutes commonly rejected by the religious system of this world.

But they, like you did in your last post, omit, ignore and refuse to acknowledge or even speak about the next 3 verses that explain exactly "What Law" changed.

This is the result of men "Yield themselves" a servant to obey "the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

I'm only pointing out that a man cannot be a "Man of God" if they don't believe in the Word of God.

 

[Studyman]

Another part of the problem, people are entrenched in these false doctrines and do not want to change even of they know the truth, in effect, they reject the truth, they reject GOD.

In my understanding, this is the heart of the problem. It appears that there is something Holy to the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, about having a choice between two competing voices, One from God and one from "Not God", and then choosing the voice of God.

Eve was created perfect by God. According to what is written, she was created with the power "to choose" in the moment. She wasn't given power to go back in time and "choose", nor was she given power to go into the future and "choose".

The only place/time that God gave her any power to choose at all, is "now" or in the moment. David speaks to this power, "Today, if you hear His Voice, harden not your hearts," like you did yesterday.

This is part of God's perfection. She was placed in a world in which both God's Voice, and "another voice" that wasn't God, but professes to know God, and even quoted "Some" of God's Word existed. It seems she was placed there to teach Eve, to prove Eve, or test Eve but also the real reason, in my view, was to teach us about how important, influential, potentially destructive it is to have the power to "choose" between the Word of God or "the word of others", and choose others.. And the responsibility this carries, and the effect it has on every human that surrounds us. Like a the ripple a rock makes when it hits the lake, that branches off in all directions affecting everything in the water long after the rock quits moving. In the way Adam and Eve's choice still affects us all these years later.

This is why it's so important, in my view, not to believe another voice simply because it professed to know God, or Calls Jesus Lord, Lord. Certainly Jesus was also surrounded by men who professed to know God, and was tasked with the same "Choice" God presented to Adam and Eve. Of the two examples we have, it seems Jesus made the choice that His Father wants us to make.

And we should be also grateful, in my view, that God gives us so many "Now's", so many "Todays", in which to repent and not harden our hearts when we hear His Voice, as we have done in the past.

This is why I choose God's teaching concerning His Commandments, and not Bobs, or "got.questions" or the BBS or any of the popular religious sects that make up the religious system of this world.

It is my understanding that since the beginning of God's creation of man, God has subjected them to religious voices that profess to know God, that quote "Some" of God's Words for the purpose of turning that man away from God, as it did Eve and ultimately Adam. And this so they would "learn" to trust Him, believe Him, Love Him, like Abraham did. And because God gives man the incredible power to Choose Him "EVERY" moment of every day. Moment after moment, day after day, instructing them to "Choose Me", pleading with them to "Hearken to ME", so they won't die, promising to forgive them if they would only use the Power God gave them to choose Him.

For me, God's Laws and Judgments are a blessing. We fast from the world every 7th Day, because God says it's Holy, and I don't think we could survive what surrounds us without it. Truly it was made for me. God's Judgments in my heart keep HIM in my mind every time I eat, shop for food, go to the grocery store, go to the restaurant. What a blessing to help me choose Him in all the "Nows" HE gives to me. And if I fall, I get up and move forward, forgetting what is behind my and reaching for the next Now, so I can choose Him.

In this way I am protected from all the "other voices" in the garden God placed me in, in the exact same way Jesus was protected from voices "that professed to know God" in His Time.

This is my witness, but I am just a man. I believe men should join themselves, "Yield themselves" to God as Paul and Jesus Teach, so they can choose God for themselves, because it is written that God "will render to every man according to his deeds".

 

[Bob S]

Bob,

The Words you are rejecting are the Christ's. They are not garbage just because I am the one who types them. You have been taught by the prince of this world, we all have. Abraham was, Caleb was, Paul was, John was. All these men "were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past they walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:" They all judged God's Laws, some a moral, some as immoral.

The word 'fulfilled' is used to describe two events. You are still refusing to give me a reason why Jesus fulfilled (brought to an end) the prophecies concerning His coming and not the Law. Until you give me an explanation, I don't see any reason to continue.

I know it is all about the Sabbath with you and most who are posting here. God has never required Gentiles to observe any day. There is not one verse in all of Scripture that alludes to that. Gentiles could, if they agreed to all of the covenant, keep the ritual laws God gave only to Israel. The Sabbaths God gave to Israel were ritual. Certainly, they were moral things to do. No one denies that, but the fact is, they had nothing to do with how we treat God and our fellow man. How the Israelites treated God and their fellow man dealt with virtue and righteousness.

You and your cohorts are trying to persuade others to do something God has never required. No one here is telling y'all it is wrong to worship on Saturday. Allow all to worship God corporately as God is leading, and not condemn us for not believing as you do. God is the judge, not us.

I'm only pointing out that a man cannot be a "Man of God" if they don't believe in the Word of God.

What you are really pointing out is that we cannot be men of God if we don't follow your interpretation of scripture

 

[Studyman]

The word 'fulfilled' is used to describe two events.

I know what your adopted religious sect teaches Bob. I am not interested in your religion. I am interested in what the Jesus "of the Bible" actually says.

Matt. 5: 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (To fill, to make full, to complete, to fulfill)

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The same earth Jesus walked on is still here. The same heaven Jesus walked under is still here. Same stars, same moon, same sun. The same Works Jesus lived by, to glorify His Father in heaven, still walked in by the church of God in Acts. The Same waiting for this same Christ's Glorious Return, as Prophesied, is still "to be Fulfilled".

Jesus continues.

19 Whosoever therefore "shall break one of these least commandments", and shall teach men so, ( Like the religion you have adopted is teaching to anyone who would listen to them) he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever "shall do" and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

But the deceiver would have us believe this was only true until HE was murdered, then it became OK to break and teach others to break even the Least of God's Commandments. Can you not see the utter foolishness in this philosophy?

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

What is wrong with the Righteousness of the Pharisees?

And when I asked the Jesus "of the Bible" HE said: Mark 7: 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Now imagine that someone could read these Words of Jesus, and then preach to others, that this is Jesus abolishing God's Laws.

And yet, your adopted religion, that full well rejects the commandments of God that you may keep your own tradition, actually uses these words of the Christ to justify their traditions.

Maybe God's Laws are abolished, and you can find somewhere that it is prophesied to be so. But this is most certainly not the Scriptures to prove it. These Scriptures prove they are still here, still in effect, and that is why the Church of God was gathered on Pentecost, a commandment you judge as immoral.

You are still refusing to give me a reason why Jesus fulfilled (brought to an end)

Fulfilled doesn't mean "Brought to an end". It means; to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally.

That is why HE said HE came not to destroy, either the Law HE gave to Moses, or the Prophets who prophesied of His birth, death and glorious return which has yet to be fulfilled..

Destroy means: destroy, lost, perish, lose, destroyed, loses, perishing.

the prophecies concerning His coming and not the Law. Until you give me an explanation, I don't see any reason to continue.

The deceiver teaches Jesus came to put an end to the Laws HE gave to Moses, and the Prophets who were written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Jesus doesn't teach this. If you were to actually read what HE actually says, You would know this.

I know it is all about the Sabbath with you and most who are posting here.

No, that isn't what my posts represent at all. You are promoting falsehoods about God's Word. I am showing you and others, that these popular doctrines promoted by this world's religious system, that The Christ warned about from Genesis to Revelation,

This world's religions reject way more than just God's Sabbath Commandment. But that's something a person must work out on their own mind. I am just exposing popular falsehoods promoted by this world's religious system, that you have adopted and are now promoting to others.

How can you "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling", if you believe lies about God and His Word? This is why Jesus said specifically to Take HEED of men who Come in His Name.

Your preaching that Jesus came to abolish His Own Laws, is a popular teaching with the RCC and her protestant daughters, but as anyone can see, who reads what is actually written, clearly Jesus didn't come to abolish, HE can to do the exact opposite, to fulfill.

God has never required Gentiles to observe any day.

That is what you preach. But that is what God teaches.

Ex. 12: 48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. 49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger (Non-Jew/Gentile) that sojourneth among you.

Is. 56: 6 Also the sons of the stranger, (Non-Jew/Gentile) that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

And Paul understood as well.

Rom. 2: 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

In your religion, God is a respecter of persons, treating men according to the DNA they were born with. But when I read what is actually written, I find again, that the religious philosophies you have adopted, and are promoting to others, is not from God at all.

There is not one verse in all of Scripture that alludes to that.

I just posted a few, there are lots more. The problem is, you are so invested in your religion, that God's actual Word doesn't carry any weight in your heart. The same thing happened with Eve, as an example for us.

I really wish you would consider what is actually written.

Gentiles could, if they agreed to all of the covenant, keep the ritual laws God gave only to Israel. The Sabbaths God gave to Israel were ritual.

Again, You call God's Sabbath "ritual". Jesus said God's Sabbath was made for man. He told you, before HE became a man, that His Sabbath and Feasts were Holy to Him, sanctified and set apart by Him, and Holy to His People, regardless of the DNA they were born with.

This is why HE warned so often and the dangers of deception. How can you know God, if you don't believe anything the Scriptures teach about Him?

Certainly, they were moral things to do. No one denies that, but the fact is, they had nothing to do with how we treat God and our fellow man.

Again, this is your preaching, not the Christ's who told you flat out, "if you Love mem keep my commandments". He didn't say, "if you love me, Judge my Commandments".

How the Israelites treated God and their fellow man dealt with virtue and righteousness.

Respect, honor and obedience to God, would be the ultimate virtue and righteousness. At least according to Jesus, Paul, Peter and the entire Holy Scriptures. Who is teaching you that rejecting God's Judgments and creating your own, is virtuous and righteous? Can you show me?

You and your cohorts are trying to persuade others to do something God has never required.

I have no cohorts, only brothers in Christ. I am posted God's Own Words clearly showing what HE expects from His People, Jew or Gentile. You don't believe in His Way, and have adopted another. And that's fine, everyone has the choice to make. The only thing I am trying to persuade you to do, is hear what Jesus actually says, and then become a "doer" of His Saying. If you can find evidence of something else I have done on this forum, then please show me.

No one here is telling y'all it is wrong to worship on Saturday.

There is nothing in the commandment that instructs men to worship God on Saturday, as if we don't the other six days a week. Here, once again, lets look at what God actually says.

Ex. 20: 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all "thy work":

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God (That would be the Christ, Yes), in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD (This would be the Christ, Yes) blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

So with me, it's not about worshipping God only one day a week, or more on one day or another. It's about believe Him, and honoring Him in His Definition of Holy, and therefore, make an informed decision as I work out my own salvation with trembling and fear.

Allow all to worship God corporately as God is leading, and not condemn us for not believing as you do. God is the judge, not us.

If you really believed this, you would judge Him or His Instruction in righteousness.

What you are really pointing out is that we cannot be men of God if we don't follow your interpretation of scripture

We certainly couldn't be a man of God if we followed the Pharisees interpretation of Scriptures. And we couldn't be a man of God if we followed the "many" Christians in Matt. 7:22,23's interpretation of Scriptures either.

My issue with the religion of this world that you have adopted and are now promoting, is that for it to stand, a man must erase most of the Written Word. And to partake of your religion, I would no longer be allowed to address, examine or discuss most of the Inspired Words of God. It was the same for the mainstream preachers of Jesus Time.

I do agree with you on one point though. If you can't bring yourself to discuss what is actually written, then there is really no use to continue. The only reason why I have engaged for so long, is so that others might read, and perhaps consider some of this worlds popular religious philosophies, and beware of them.

 

[Bob S]

Maybe God's Laws are abolished, and you can find somewhere that it is prophesied to be so. But this is most certainly not the Scriptures to prove it. These Scriptures prove they are still here, still in effect, and that is why the Church of God was gathered on Pentecost, a commandment you judge as immoral.

gal3:19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.

Fulfilled doesn't mean "Brought to an end". It means; to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally.

verb (used with object)​

fulfilled, fulfilling.

1. to carry out, or bring to realization, as a prophecy or promise.
   Synonyms: realize, complete, achieve, accomplish
2. to perform or do, as duty; obey or follow, as commands.
   Synonyms: observe, discharge, execute
3. to satisfy (requirements, obligations, etc.):
   a book that fulfills a long-felt need.
   Synonyms: fill, answer, meet
4. to bring to an end; finish or complete, as a period of time:
   He felt that life was over when one had fulfilled his threescore years and ten.
   Synonyms: conclude, terminate, end
5. to develop the full potential of (usually used reflexively):
   She realized that she could never fulfill herself in such work.

There is no way I could ever trust what you have written.

 

[BobRyan]

The word 'fulfilled' is used to describe two events. You are still refusing to give me a reason why Jesus fulfilled (brought to an end) the prophecies concerning His coming and not the Law.

the LAW said "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 - and you say "Christ put an end to God's law"?? seriously??

As was stated before, commandments of God are prescriptive - they tell us what God wants us to do and violation of it is "sin" even in the NT 1 John 3:4. Others are predictive and prescriptive - predicting the death of Christ (for example)

This is the easy part.

 

[Studyman]

gal3:19 Why, then, was the law given at all?

Why was "What Law" given? God's Law, "Thou shall not Kill", "Thou shall not commit adultery" wasn't "ADDED" until 430 years after God said a Blessing was given by Him, "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws"?

And what was this Law Paul speaks to, "ADDED" to? Shouldn't a person "Seeking the righteousness of God", as Jesus instructs" seek the answer to this question from the Holy Scriptures"?

Your religion doesn't make any sense. Are you saying that God didn't instruct men not to kill each other and commit adultery, until 430 years after Abraham obeyed God's Law not to kill each other and commit adultery?

These are relevant questions, not about God's Word, but about the teaching of this world's religious system.

It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.

What was this Law Paul speaks about, that wasn't ADDED until 430 years after Abraham, "ADDED" to?

If a person considers "ALL" that is written, it is clear Paul is speaking to "ADDING" of the temporary Priesthood that Abraham didn't have, that was ADDED because of the Golden Calf.

Jer. 22: 22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: 23 But "this thing commanded I them", saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.



So then, did the Israelites "Do the Works of Abraham"? Clearly they didn't.

24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.

Clearly this is the reason why God "ADDED" the Levitical Priesthood Sacrificial "Works of the Law" for the individual to engage in for the remission of sins, "Till the Prophesied Seed should come". A Mercy from God, as opposed to destroying Israel, and making a great nation out of Moses. You can read about this if you are even interested, in the Word of God HE had written for our admonition, in Exodus 32. Notice which Tribe gathered around Moses when he said, "Who is on the Lord's Side".

Hebrews 7-10 specifically speaks to this in incredible detail, even to the point of telling you "What Law Changed" by necessity. But to accept these Biblical Truths, would expose a lot of doctrines and philosophy promoted by this world's religions, that are NOT "wrought in God".

Jesus told me why men "hide from the Light of the World" Bob, in John 3:20.

For me personally, I have been freed from the fleshy lust to support or justify this worlds religious system that you have adopted and are no promoting to others.

I only promote the actual Word of God so that others, who might "Yield themselves" a living sacrifice to God, Holy and Acceptable to Him, so they can be freed from the doctrines and traditions of this world as well.

verb (used with object)​

fulfilled, fulfilling.

1. to carry out, or bring to realization, as a prophecy or promise.
   Synonyms: realize, complete, achieve, accomplish
2. to perform or do, as duty; obey or follow, as commands.
   Synonyms: observe, discharge, execute
3. to satisfy (requirements, obligations, etc.):
   a book that fulfills a long-felt need.
   Synonyms: fill, answer, meet
4. to bring to an end; finish or complete, as a period of time:
   He felt that life was over when one had fulfilled his threescore years and ten.
   Synonyms: conclude, terminate, end
5. to develop the full potential of (usually used reflexively):
   She realized that she could never fulfill herself in such work.

So then, of the 5 definitions to choose from, you pick the one that most closely defines "abolish and destroy", based on the implication that Jesus' Life was over, had come to the end, and HE has no more prophesies of Himself to "Fulfill".

Even though the entire theme of His Entire Speech, was obedience to even the Least of God's Commandments, and teaching other to do the same.

There is no way I could ever trust what you have written.

I have never asked you to trust me or any man, but the Holy Scriptures, the Inspired Word of God HE "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".

 

[BobRyan]

gal3:19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.

verb (used with object)​

fulfilled, fulfilling.

1. to carry out, or bring to realization, as a prophecy or promise.

Yep.. moral law is prescriptive - that means that the moment someone Loves God - does not DELETE the Law. It still remains.

so then EVEN though Christ perfectly fulfilled the Law to not take God's name in vain -- The Deut 6:5 command to love God REMAINS - it is not "deleted".

Christians must all STILL continue to choose not to take God's name in vain.

This just is not that complicated

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

I hear what you are saying and I think I understand your position. But in God's eyes, we all have misunderstandings about this point or that. And God is gracious and tries to lay out a path to understanding. People, unfortunately, are creatures of habit. And it is hard to believe that all the good-intentioned religious instruction that they have received from childhood is now reported to be wrong. It is a big change to make.

As a result of all this, I see both sides pulling out their hair because it seems so OBVIOUS to them that their position is correct, and the other is wrong. Then come the accusations of acting in poor faith or being stubborn or something else.

I don't think that conversions or enlightenment come as a result of a bloody nose at the end of a fist fight.

KT

it is God through the Holy Spirit that teaches us, if we do keep an open heart. for those who reject God's words and close their hearts, it is a different story, it is why they remain deaf and blind because they harden their hearts.

Jhn 8:47 "Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

 

[timothyu]

it is God through the Holy Spirit that teaches us, if we do keep an open heart. for those who reject God's words and close their hearts, it is a different story, it is why they remain deaf and blind because they harden their hearts.

Some people hear things/voices regardless. Some claim they hear God. The proof is in their works.

 

[The Liturgist]

it is God through the Holy Spirit that teaches us, if we do keep an open heart. for those who reject God's words and close their hearts, it is a different story, it is why they remain deaf and blind because they harden their hearts.

Jhn 8:47 "Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

Indeed, but no one on ChristianForums who adheres to the CF Statement of Faith rejects God’s words or His Word.

 

[The Liturgist]

Yep.. moral law is prescriptive - that means that the moment someone Loves God - does not DELETE the Law. It still remains.

so then EVEN though Christ perfectly fulfilled the Law to not take God's name in vain -- The Deut 6:5 command to love God REMAINS - it is not "deleted".

Christians must all STILL continue to choose not to take God's name in vain.

This just is not that complicated

You’ll have to prove that using the Pauline epistles specifically, since what St. Paul wrote is part of the New Testament, and the New Testament interprets the Old Testament, and not vice versa. The objection that our friend @Bob S raised is predicated upon the Epistle of St. Paul to the Galatians, thus a specifically Pauline response is required - the Old Testament is interpreted by the four Gospels that lie at the heart of the new Testament, which are in turn interpreted through the nexus of the Pauline, Pastoral and Catholic Epistles, and in those Epistles, when interpreted in a unified context with the Gospels, form the center of the sacred tradition of the Christian faith, radiating out the grace of Christ to all who encounter them.

I had historically not understood the Lutheran emphasis on stressing the Law vs. Gospel dichotomy, but now I understand why Martin Luther used this as a catechtical platform, because it is the case that in the Western Church the two were conflated by different people to varying extents. Thus our Lutheran friends such as @ViaCrucis @MarkRohfrietsch and @Ain't Zwinglian represent the ideal authority for any issue involving the Pauline doctrine, and also represent normative Protestantism, insofar as the Protestant doctrines you admire were developed by Martin Luther and the Lutheran church was the most successful of any Protestant church in terms of geographic reach and in terms of theological performance, specifically with regards to the restoration of Patristic theology based on grace to replace the legalism of the Scholastic theologians of the early Renaissance.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Indeed, but no one on ChristianForums who adheres to the CF Statement of Faith rejects God’s words or His Word.

You want to cause trouble it is evident I never rejected any words from God, it is you who say so. please leave me alone.

 

[Bob S]

Study.com​

​

The Seven Laws of Noah​

The seven laws of Noah are a set of seven commandments or instructions that are relevant in Jewish theology. These laws are also called the Noahide laws, the Noachide laws, or the Noachian laws, depending on differences in transliteration. The 7 laws of Noah are unusual in Judaism because they apply to Jewish people and non-Jewish people. Most of the commandments in Judaism only apply to people who are Jewish, as Judaism is not a proselytizing religion. Noah's laws, however, are considered universal moral laws that everyone ought to follow to make the world a better place. The laws of Noah can be found in the book of Genesis in both the Jewish Torah and the Christian Bible, though they are considered much more significant in Judaism than in Christianity.

The seven laws of Noah are told to Noah by God after the flood

Copilot Answer The Noahide Laws are a set of universal moral principles. They were given by God to Noah and his descendants after the flood, applying to all of humanity. The Seven Noahide Laws include: Jewish Virtual Library+2 Laws Prohibition of cursing God Prohibition of idolatry Prohibition of illicit sexuality Prohibition of bloodshed Prohibition of robbery Prohibition of eating flesh from a living animal. https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=a71c...jb20vYXJ0aWNsZS90aGUtbm9haGlkZS1sYXdzLw&ntb=1 God gave mankind laws well before the 12 tribes of Israel. The Israelites have never proselytized the laws God gave them. All the laws given to Israel were for Israel only. Gentiles are still under the Noahide laws and the Command that Jesus gave us in Jn 13 and 15. John 13:34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. John 15:10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. John 15:12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Notice Jesus said He kept His Father's commands. What were the commands He kept? He kept the laws of the Sinai covenant that pertained to Him. Jesus, after qualifying the laws, He was under, told His followers the law they were to keep. We refer to the new law as the Royal Law of Love. "Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends." The Law of Love covers every aspect of how we could harm our fellow man, not just the nine laws of the Ten Commandments. In Gal 3 Paul calls the Galatians foolish because there were some convincing them to adhere to the laws of the Sinai Covenant. This is the same thing some are trying to do to us today. Paul was telling that mixed group that the Sinai Covenant ended with Jesus.

 

[Bob S]

Yep.. moral law is prescriptive - that means that the moment someone Loves God - does not DELETE the Law. It still remains.

so then EVEN though Christ perfectly fulfilled the Law to not take God's name in vain -- The Deut 6:5 command to love God REMAINS - it is not "deleted".

Christians must all STILL continue to choose not to take God's name in vain.

This just is not that complicated

We do not take God's name in vain because it was a command given to one nation, we do not take His name in vain, because we love Him. Taking His name in vain was recognized before the Sinai covenant. It is one of the Noahide commands.

 

[Bob S]

Why was "What Law" given? God's Law, "Thou shall not Kill", "Thou shall not commit adultery" wasn't "ADDED" until 430 years after God said a Blessing was given by Him, "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws"?

And what was this Law Paul speaks to, "ADDED" to? Shouldn't a person "Seeking the righteousness of God", as Jesus instructs" seek the answer to this question from the Holy Scriptures"?

Your religion doesn't make any sense. Are you saying that God didn't instruct men not to kill each other and commit adultery, until 430 years after Abraham obeyed God's Law not to kill each other and commit adultery?

These are relevant questions, not about God's Word, but about the teaching of this world's religious system.



What was this Law Paul speaks about, that wasn't ADDED until 430 years after Abraham, "ADDED" to?

If a person considers "ALL" that is written, it is clear Paul is speaking to "ADDING" of the temporary Priesthood that Abraham didn't have, that was ADDED because of the Golden Calf.

Jer. 22: 22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: 23 But "this thing commanded I them", saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.



So then, did the Israelites "Do the Works of Abraham"? Clearly they didn't.

24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.

Clearly this is the reason why God "ADDED" the Levitical Priesthood Sacrificial "Works of the Law" for the individual to engage in for the remission of sins, "Till the Prophesied Seed should come". A Mercy from God, as opposed to destroying Israel, and making a great nation out of Moses. You can read about this if you are even interested, in the Word of God HE had written for our admonition, in Exodus 32. Notice which Tribe gathered around Moses when he said, "Who is on the Lord's Side".

Hebrews 7-10 specifically speaks to this in incredible detail, even to the point of telling you "What Law Changed" by necessity. But to accept these Biblical Truths, would expose a lot of doctrines and philosophy promoted by this world's religions, that are NOT "wrought in God".

Jesus told me why men "hide from the Light of the World" Bob, in John 3:20.

For me personally, I have been freed from the fleshy lust to support or justify this worlds religious system that you have adopted and are no promoting to others.

I only promote the actual Word of God so that others, who might "Yield themselves" a living sacrifice to God, Holy and Acceptable to Him, so they can be freed from the doctrines and traditions of this world as well.



So then, of the 5 definitions to choose from, you pick the one that most closely defines "abolish and destroy", based on the implication that Jesus' Life was over, had come to the end, and HE has no more prophesies of Himself to "Fulfill".

Even though the entire theme of His Entire Speech, was obedience to even the Least of God's Commandments, and teaching other to do the same.



I have never asked you to trust me or any man, but the Holy Scriptures, the Inspired Word of God HE "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".

You have convinced yourself that the way you reinterpret scripture is the only way, so anyone else's comments are automatically wrong. That is a dangerous position to take.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Study.com​

​

The Seven Laws of Noah​

The seven laws of Noah are a set of seven commandments or instructions that are relevant in Jewish theology. These laws are also called the Noahide laws, the Noachide laws, or the Noachian laws, depending on differences in transliteration. The 7 laws of Noah are unusual in Judaism because they apply to Jewish people and non-Jewish people. Most of the commandments in Judaism only apply to people who are Jewish, as Judaism is not a proselytizing religion. Noah's laws, however, are considered universal moral laws that everyone ought to follow to make the world a better place. The laws of Noah can be found in the book of Genesis in both the Jewish Torah and the Christian Bible, though they are considered much more significant in Judaism than in Christianity.

The seven laws of Noah are told to Noah by God after the flood

Copilot Answer The Noahide Laws are a set of universal moral principles. They were given by God to Noah and his descendants after the flood, applying to all of humanity. The Seven Noahide Laws include: Jewish Virtual Library+2 Laws Prohibition of cursing God Prohibition of idolatry Prohibition of illicit sexuality Prohibition of bloodshed Prohibition of robbery Prohibition of eating flesh from a living animal. https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=a71c...jb20vYXJ0aWNsZS90aGUtbm9haGlkZS1sYXdzLw&ntb=1 God gave mankind laws well before the 12 tribes of Israel. The Israelites have never proselytized the laws God gave them. All the laws given to Israel were for Israel only. Gentiles are still under the Noahide laws and the Command that Jesus gave us in Jn 13 and 15. John 13:34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. John 15:10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. John 15:12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Notice Jesus said He kept His Father's commands. What were the commands He kept? He kept the laws of the Sinai covenant that pertained to Him. Jesus, after qualifying the laws, He was under, told His followers the law they were to keep. We refer to the new law as the Royal Law of Love. "Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends." The Law of Love covers every aspect of how we could harm our fellow man, not just the nine laws of the Ten Commandments. In Gal 3 Paul calls the Galatians foolish because there were some convincing them to adhere to the laws of the Sinai Covenant. This is the same thing some are trying to do to us today. Paul was telling that mixed group that the Sinai Covenant ended with Jesus.

hey bob I used perplexity AI do do a search on this it is much more efficient in finding things anan the r4gular search engines. this was the question;

where can we find the Noahide laws in the bible (NKJV)​

See answer below;

The "Noahide Laws" (also called Noachide or Noachian Laws) are not presented as a distinct, numbered list anywhere in the Bible, including the New King James Version (NKJV). Instead, they are a traditional set of seven moral laws derived by Jewish rabbis, primarily from the Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 56a-b), based on their interpretation of various passages in the Hebrew Bible
.


However, you can find the general themes or prohibitions underlying the Noahide Laws scattered throughout the Book of Genesis and other parts of the Old Testament:

• Not to worship idols: This is a major theme throughout the Old Testament, though not specified to Noah specifically.
• Not to curse God: The idea of blasphemy is mentioned in various laws, such as in Leviticus 24:16.
• Not to commit murder: Genesis 9:6 states, “Whoever sheds man’s blood, by man his blood shall be shed; for in the image of God He made man.”
• Not to commit adultery or sexual immorality: Sexual morality is addressed in many places, such as Leviticus 18.
• Not to steal: This is a fundamental prohibition in the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:15) and elsewhere.
• Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal: Genesis 9:4 says, “But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.”
• To establish courts of justice: This is implied in Genesis 9:6 (“by man his blood shall be shed”) and in various commands to judge justly throughout the Bible.

Summary Table

Noahide Law	Possible Biblical Source (NKJV)
Not to worship idols	Scattered throughout OT
Not to curse God	Leviticus 24:16
Not to commit murder	Genesis 9:6
Not to commit adultery/immorality	Leviticus 18
Not to steal	Exodus 20:15
Not to eat flesh from living animal	Genesis 9:4
Establish courts of justice	Genesis 9:6 (implied), Exodus 18:21–22

Conclusion


The Noahide Laws themselves are not found as a compiled list in the Bible, but the principles can be found in various passages, especially in Genesis and Leviticus

. The formal list is a product of rabbinic interpretation and tradition, not a direct biblical text.

_________________________________________________________________________________

-->Are you tryng to replace the ten Commandments by jewish talmud writings?

 

[Bob S]

hey bob I used perplexity AI do do a search on this it is much more efficient in finding things anan the r4gular search engines. this was the question;

where can we find the hoahide laws in the bible (NKJV)​

See answer below;

The "Noahide Laws" (also called Noachide or Noachian Laws) are not presented as a distinct, numbered list anywhere in the Bible, including the New King James Version (NKJV). Instead, they are a traditional set of seven moral laws derived by Jewish rabbis, primarily from the Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 56a-b), based on their interpretation of various passages in the Hebrew Bible
.


However, you can find the general themes or prohibitions underlying the Noahide Laws scattered throughout the Book of Genesis and other parts of the Old Testament:

• Not to worship idols: This is a major theme throughout the Old Testament, though not specified to Noah specifically.
• Not to curse God: The idea of blasphemy is mentioned in various laws, such as in Leviticus 24:16.
• Not to commit murder: Genesis 9:6 states, “Whoever sheds man’s blood, by man his blood shall be shed; for in the image of God He made man.”
• Not to commit adultery or sexual immorality: Sexual morality is addressed in many places, such as Leviticus 18.
• Not to steal: This is a fundamental prohibition in the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:15) and elsewhere.
• Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal: Genesis 9:4 says, “But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.”
• To establish courts of justice: This is implied in Genesis 9:6 (“by man his blood shall be shed”) and in various commands to judge justly throughout the Bible.

Summary Table

Noahide Law	Possible Biblical Source (NKJV)
Not to worship idols	Scattered throughout OT
Not to curse God	Leviticus 24:16
Not to commit murder	Genesis 9:6
Not to commit adultery/immorality	Leviticus 18
Not to steal	Exodus 20:15
Not to eat flesh from living animal	Genesis 9:4
Establish courts of justice	Genesis 9:6 (implied), Exodus 18:21–22

Conclusion


The Noahide Laws themselves are not found as a compiled list in the Bible, but the principles can be found in various passages, especially in Genesis and Leviticus

. The formal list is a product of rabbinic interpretation and tradition, not a direct biblical text.

-->Are you tryng to replace the ten Commandments by jewish talmud writings?

The Ten Commandments were given exclusively to Israel. The remainder of the World's population had rules of some kind. Since the Jews did not have the laws of the Sinai Covenant until Moses went up on Mt Sinai and received them, they had some laws they abided by, as did the remainder of the World. Noah received instructions from God on how to do certain things. 12 And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: 13 I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth.

The covenant made with Noah and the one made with Abraham are the covenants given to Gentiles. There were no Israelites at that time. The covenant made with Israel was exclusively made for Israel.

As far as how the Jews are able to believe Gentiles had seven rules to live by, I guess we can take it or leave it.

 

[BobRyan]

We do not take God's name in vain because it was a command given to one nation,

Seriously?

we do not take His name in vain, because we love Him. Taking His name in vain was recognized before the Sinai covenant. It is one of the Noahide commands.

hmm -- you admit that it was a sin even for Adam to do it - even though it is not quoted at all until Exodus 20 and is not quoted at all in the entire NT..

Well at least your theology does have that ... I take it as a good sign.