Israel Strikes Iran: Explosions in Tehran, Sirens in Israel

[Chesterton]

For decades, not exactly, but Japan certainly saw the US trade embargo...

So if my neighbor wants to buy my lawnmower and I don't want to sell it to him, that must mean I want to annihilate him and his family?

...and support for China in the 1930s and into 1940/41 as existential threats.

The U.S. gave no tangible support other than moral support, which most of the rest of the world also gave, especially Asia.

Their government didn't see any real option other than war with the US by that point (as they feared backing down would result in them becoming a colony).

They had no fear of becoming a colony as their military was dominating everywhere they went.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

So if my neighbor wants to buy my lawnmower and I don't want to sell it to him, that must mean I want to annihilate him and his family?

The U.S. gave no tangible support other than moral support, which most of the rest of the world also gave, especially Asia.

They had no fear of becoming a colony as their military was dominating everywhere they went.

If you want to discuss Japan's entry into World War II, I'd be happy to do so in another thread. It's off-topic here.

 

[Chesterton]

If you want to discuss Japan's entry into World War II, I'd be happy to do so in another thread. It's off-topic here.

I agree with this, except referring to Japan's "entry" into WWII is laughable. Kind of like me walking up to you and punching you in the nose for no good reason, and someone says "Chesterton entered into the fight" - the fight which didn't exist until I punched you.

 

[trophy33]

Iran will one day, inevitably use nukes on Israel the first chance they get.

Why would they risk such action?

I would say that a "demonstrative" attack with nuclear weapons is not a realistic strategy, when other countries have them too. The US nuking Japan was probably the only point in history in which it was possible.

 

[Valletta]

At the Atomic Bomb Museum in Nagasaki they have a section on the historical background of the event, and they are pretty clear about Japan's extreme militarism in service of colonialism as the main driver of the Pacific war. Pretty sure I recall this correctly.

That is correct. They had already occupied China, it ended up with 10 million Chinese dead because of military action, and another 5 to 10 million were starved to death.

 

[Chesterton]

Why would they risk such action?

I would say that a "demonstrative" attack with nuclear weapons is not a realistic strategy, when other countries have them too. The US nuking Japan was probably the only point in history in which it was possible.

You have to remember we're talking about a culture where attacking an enemy through martyrdom is glorious.

 

[Jamdoc]

so some Iranian missiles are getting through unfortunately, but I think Israel said that Iran's oil refinaries and offshore drilling platforms were next if Israel population centers were targetted, which they were.

 

[JosephZ]

so some Iranian missiles are getting through unfortunately, but I think Israel said that Iran's oil refinaries and offshore drilling platforms were next if Israel population centers were targetted, which they were.

It's unfortunate that Israel decided to put it's IDF headquarters and wartime command center (Fortress of Zion) in the heart of Tel Aviv knowing that this would put civilians in danger during a time of war.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Why would they risk such action?

I would say that a "demonstrative" attack with nuclear weapons is not a realistic strategy, when other countries have them too. The US nuking Japan was probably the only point in history in which it was possible.

According to the slow 15 year crawl it took Iran to enrich uranium, right in the open, in front of everyone, I don't see any demonstratable evidence that Iran has any kind of realistic strategy. With anything.

...I mean, are they now surprised Israel did this? Nobody else seems to be. Most strategists seem to have predicted it.

 

[JosephZ]

NYT: Israeli firefighting forces said in a statement that they were rescuing people from buildings struck by the Iranian attack on Tel Aviv and its surrounding areas. So far, they said, 22 injured people have been rescued.


The U.S. military is helping Israel to intercept some of the ballistic missiles which Iran fired in retaliation of Israeli strikes, an American official said. The U.S. has already begun moving more military assets to the eastern Mediterranean to help defend American troops in the region.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive operations, said that American military assets already in the region were used to intercept Iranian missiles on Friday.

 

[JosephZ]

NYT: Israeli hospitals are treating dozens of people critically injured in the Iranian missile attack, including one woman who physicians at Beilinson Hospital said is “fighting for her life,” the hospital said in a statement.


Rafael Grossi, the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, told the United Nations Security Council on Friday that Israel’s strike on the Iranian nuclear facility near Natanz had destroyed the above-ground enrichment plant, causing chemical and radiological contamination.

He said the Iranian authorities had reported strikes on nuclear facilities in Fordo and Isfahan as well.

 

[rjs330]

Things are indeed getting spicy. However undeterred Iran is on their nuclear ambitions, pre-emptively striking them is something I don't agree on. Should Iran declare full on war they will be justified in doing so. Israel handed them the casus belie. No sovereign nation should have their borders violated; no matter how unfriendly they are towards you.

I doubt Iran will go for a hot war with them being outclassed militarily and economically hobbled. Yet if Israel keeps up this pre-emptive strike doctrine, one day they will get themselves destroyed. One day they will slowly lose whatever friends they have left in the world. As it is they have few to begin with. Their enemies will gather strength and support as the world steadily grows tired of aggression.

There are other methods to go about Iran's nuclear ambitions, Israel chose the worst one for long term stability and safety. Whatever safety they achieved for the moment, will only resolves the Iranians to double down and improve. Israel is caught in the cycle of "whack-a-mole" until one side is destroyed.

Look I don't like Iran yet I can't find it in me to tacitly approve of what Israel did. The world could use a little - a lot more calm and peace. More brain than brawn for now.

Iran has noy just been unfriendly, but has constantly threatened to wipe Israel out. They have attacked Israel over and over again. Israel was just fine attacking Iran to prevent them from getting nukes. They have done the whole world a service.

 

[rjs330]

Regardless that is not something a nation should be pursuing for long term regional peace.

Iran doesn't want peace. They have been belligerent toward everyone. They are an evil government who if they got their hands on a nuke would wield it like a club. They have already told everyone to pound sand.

Also no matter how adversarial Iran is with Israel and the US, they are not ignorant of the outcome. Any use of nuclear weapons will not only destroy their enemies but also the users.

Rhey have already proven over and over their instability of thought processes. They dont care about their people. They are a government of blood and death. Death to the west. They are Islamists who think they will go to heaven as martyrs with lots of virgins. They dont care. As we have seen with Hamas, they dont care about anyone. They are fanatics and fanatics are dangerous. They are a cult of death and dont care how much blood flows.

With Israel in so close proximity to Iran, the resultant fallout will also affect them. Not just Iran but all regional neighbours and the other nations around the globe.

Again as fanatics they would see themselves as heros of Allah. They dont care how much death and destruction they cause or would cause.

 

[rjs330]

Question: wasn’t the 7 December 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor a “preemptive strike”?

Yup, because Japan was going to launch an empire building war on the east. Israel is not. Iran is the one that is desiring to wipe Israel out. Not the other way around.

If Japan attacked us because we had been declaring we were trying to destroy them and had been launching attacks against them, then maybe you'd have a point.

 

[Desk trauma]

Well, looks like Israel is going to need a reup on aid. Get to voting congress!

 

[bèlla]

I was praying and hoping that Israel would have given the USA more time to reach a diplomatic solution with Iran in order to hopefully have a peaceful resolution to Iran's nuclear ambitions.

Why were you praying for that? If you follow geopolitical commentary outside of the mainstream you would have expected this to occur and he’s been chomping at the bits for a while to strike Iran even when Biden was in office. This was always part of his larger plan. He was stretched with the proxy’s and now he’s added Iran to his plate while hiding in Athens.

He wanted the fight and he got it and MAGA’s don’t support our involvement.

~bella

 

[Desk trauma]

He wanted the fight and he got it and MAGA’s don’t support our involvement.

I’m sure whatever involvement we have or will have will be hailed as nothing less than brilliance, like the Gaza takeover idea was.

 

[bèlla]

I’m sure whatever involvement we have or will have will be hailed as nothing less than brilliance, like the Gaza takeover idea was.

The Gaza takeover idea is deplorable and I don’t believe everything I hear from American media.

~bella

 

[Desk trauma]

The Gaza takeover idea is deplorable and I don’t believe everything I hear from American media.

~bella

Yet it was praised by the maga commentariat. Just like our involvement I iran will be.

 

[bèlla]

Yet it was praised by the maga. Just like our involvement I iran will be.

I don’t believe it will end well either way. Nor do I think we’ll be unscathed in the long run. That isn’t a take you’ll usually hear from christians. They expect God to punish everyone but America and Israel. Their delusion will be their undoing.

~bella