Pastor John MacArthur

[DragonFox91]

I follow him a little bit. I have read some of his books. I have not listened to any of his sermons.

I think overall he is a solid Bible teacher.

I found him just reading Christian stuff on social media & learned quickly he was teaching how I understood reading the Bible for myself. He was saying stuff I had never heard other Christians say even though I was reading it myself in the Bible

It is also true I don't agree w/ everything he teaches. His teachings on the End Times I'm not as sure about for example. Even tho there are good pastors we must still read the Bible ourselves.

The church I go to really likes him. I think celebrity pastors can be dangerous b/c we must be reading the Bible for ourselves & coming to our own conclusions, but I think also he is just that good. Thru-out church history there have been good celebrity pastors.

 

[YeshuaFan]

For going through the bible, here is a good series from the late David Pawson.

Unlocking the New Testament

This series of talks gives a unique overview of the New Testament, from the widely respected evangelical speaker and writer, David Pawson. Unlocking the New ...

www.youtube.com

If you like books (many of which have free pdf's online) and want to sample the word of faith message the late Kenneth E. Hagin is good.
Evangelism and healing: the late T.L. Osborn
Line upon line and precept on precept, of most books of the bible, Bob Yandian

These teachers are all older charismatics.

I would stay away from any who would be teaching word of faith heresy

 

[YeshuaFan]

Why does MacArthur attack other belief systems? That's a turnoff for me.

He attacks those whose teaching and doctrines are not found in the bible

 

[YeshuaFan]

Where does MacArthur teach works based theology?

I listened to many of his sermons and have his book. He always teaches by grace alone by faith alone by Christ alone.

MacArthur actually heavily criticizes works based salvation and calls it false gospel

Basic Lordship salvation tenet would be "if Jesus is not Lord of all, then he is Lord over none"

 

[YeshuaFan]

Hello Beth77, isn't that a big part of what pastors are supposed to do for their congregants/flock, preach against false doctrines/teachings/teachers for the good of all (including that of the false teachers)? Also, isn't that the very thing that we see the Lord Jesus and the Apostles doing time and time again in the Bible?

The Bible tells us that "the truth" is a REALLY big deal, yes, because it's by finally knowing the truth that we are set free (so that we might be justified/saved) .. e.g. John 8:32, and it is also by the truth (first and foremost) that we are continually/progressively sanctified as believers by God, and that from justification to Glory .. e.g. John 17:17; cf Philippians 1:6.

God bless you!!

--David

Dr MacArthur takes seriously the command of Jesus to expose the deeds and doctrines of darkness, of demons.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Why does MacArthur attack other belief systems? That's a turnoff for me.

What was so neat was that until his death, Dr Sporoul and him were best friends, taught from each ohers pulpits, and were different in many issues, but still love each other.
Sproul Covenant theology, Dr Mac Dispy
Dr Sproul Amil, Dr Mac pre trib premil
Dr Sproul infant Baptism, Dr Mac adults only

 

[Richard T]

I would stay away from any who would be teaching word of faith heresy

Seems easy to make a heresy accusation without any specifics attributed directly to David Pawson.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Seems easy to make a heresy accusation without any specifics attributed directly to David Pawson.

Not familiar with his teaching, but do know the heresy of Hagin

 

[Richard T]

Not familiar with his teaching, but do know the heresy of Hagin

Of the 100 plus online teaching of Pawson on through the bible (both OT and NT) few deal with word of faith issues. Most are solid biblical teachings. The one thing I disagree with as would most baptists is that I believe in eternal security and Pawson does not.

I had written more on Hagin but as this is a Baptist venue, I will leave such issues aside. God bless.

 

[tdidymas]

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Zane C. Hodges
Assurance is of the Essence of Saving Faith

There is something dreadfully wrong with this teaching. He (and his follower who introduces the video) assumes that assurance is the same thing as believing, so they don't make any distinction. But why would Paul, John, Peter, and the writer of Hebrews exhort believers in the churches to come into assurance, and why would they teach how to do so, if assurance came at the same time as believing and being born again? The fact is, most Christians have doubts at first, which is the lack of assurance; and yet John wrote "everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God." Assurance comes with knowledge of scripture, and this can come to individuals years after believing in Christ. Paul wrote very clearly that we are saved by HOPE in Christ, not by assurance. Certainly faith is stronger as assurance comes. Proof of faith brings assurance, and that comes with trials and with growing knowledge of scripture, and a better sense of relationship with God. Therefore, the idea that "assurance is of the essence of saving faith" is a false idea, because it starts with a false premise that a person isn't born again until they have assurance. Hogwash!

 

[d taylor]

There is something dreadfully wrong with this teaching. He (and his follower who introduces the video) assumes that assurance is the same thing as believing, so they don't make any distinction. But why would Paul, John, Peter, and the writer of Hebrews exhort believers in the churches to come into assurance, and why would they teach how to do so, if assurance came at the same time as believing and being born again? The fact is, most Christians have doubts at first, which is the lack of assurance; and yet John wrote "everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God." Assurance comes with knowledge of scripture, and this can come to individuals years after believing in Christ. Paul wrote very clearly that we are saved by HOPE in Christ, not by assurance. Certainly faith is stronger as assurance comes. Proof of faith brings assurance, and that comes with trials and with growing knowledge of scripture, and a better sense of relationship with God. Therefore, the idea that "assurance is of the essence of saving faith" is a false idea, because it starts with a false premise that a person isn't born again until they have assurance. Hogwash!

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If receiving God;s free gift of Eternal Life is taught correctly (only by belief in Jesus) then the person believing would understand at the time they believed in Jesus. They also have assurance, their belief gave them God's free gift of Eternal Life. Why because it is not based on how they are living their life or will live their life, but it is based on God's promise that all who believe in Jesus have Eternal Life.

So you must be one who looks to themselves and how they are living for assurance. I am also guessing you believe repentance is part of receiving eternal life.

A person either believes the offer of eternal life or he doesn’t.

 

[tdidymas]

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If receiving God;s free gift of Eternal Life is taught correctly (only by belief in Jesus) then the person believing would understand at the time they believed in Jesus. They also have assurance, their belief gave them God's free gift of Eternal Life. Why because it is not based on how they are living their life or will live their life, but it is based on God's promise that all who believe in Jesus have Eternal Life.

So you must be one who looks to themselves and how they are living for assurance. I am also guessing you believe repentance is part of receiving eternal life.

A person either believes the offer of eternal life or he doesn’t.

Sounds to me like you among Hodges and his followers are condemning anyone who struggles with doubt because of ignorance. Judge not lest you be judged. If you tell people "you're not born of God" just because they express doubt, you are putting a hindrance to their faith, which is something Jesus condemned.

 

[d taylor]

Sounds to me like you among Hodges and his followers are condemning anyone who struggles with doubt because of ignorance. Judge not lest you be judged. If you tell people "you're not born of God" just because they express doubt, you are putting a hindrance to their faith, which is something Jesus condemned.

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Not surprised that a MacArthur follower, would not understand what Zane is teaching.

Dealing with Faltering Assurance – Grace Evangelical Society

Should Assurance of Salvation Be a Lifelong Struggle? – Grace Evangelical Society

When Assurance of Salvation is Fleeting* – Grace Evangelical Society

I (J. Wilbur Chapman) was studying for the ministry, and I heard that D. L. Moody was to preach in Chicago. I went to hear him. Finally I got into his after meeting. I shall never forget the thrill that went through me when he came and sat down beside me as an inquirer. He asked me if I was a Christian. I said, “Mr. Moody, I am not sure whether I am a Christian or not.”
He very kindly took his Bible and opened it to the 5th chapter of John, and the 24 verse, which reads as follows: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life.”
Suppose you had read it through for the first time, wouldn’t you think it was wonderful? I read it through, and he said, “Do you believe it?”
I said, “Yes.”
“Do you accept it?”
I said, “Yes.”
“Well, are you a Christian?”
“Mr. Moody, I sometimes think I am, and sometimes I am afraid I am not.”
He very kindly said, “Read it again.”
So I read it again, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life.”
Then he said, “Do you believe it?”
I said, “Yes.”
“Do you receive Him?”
I said, “Yes.”
“Well,” he said, “are you a Christian?”
I just started to say over again that sometimes I was afraid I was not, when the only time in all the years I knew him and loved him, he was sharp with me. He turned on me with his eyes flashing and said, “See here, whom are you doubting?” Then I saw it for the first time, that when I was afraid I was not a Christian I was doubting (a promise of Jesus Himself!) I read it again with my eyes overflowing with tears. Since that day I have had many sorrows and many joys, but never have I doubted for a moment that I was a Christian, because God said it.

 

[tdidymas]

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Not surprised that a MacArthur follower, would not understand what Zane is teaching.

Dealing with Faltering Assurance – Grace Evangelical Society

Should Assurance of Salvation Be a Lifelong Struggle? – Grace Evangelical Society

When Assurance of Salvation is Fleeting* – Grace Evangelical Society

I (J. Wilbur Chapman) was studying for the ministry, and I heard that D. L. Moody was to preach in Chicago. I went to hear him. Finally I got into his after meeting. I shall never forget the thrill that went through me when he came and sat down beside me as an inquirer. He asked me if I was a Christian. I said, “Mr. Moody, I am not sure whether I am a Christian or not.”
He very kindly took his Bible and opened it to the 5th chapter of John, and the 24 verse, which reads as follows: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life.”
Suppose you had read it through for the first time, wouldn’t you think it was wonderful? I read it through, and he said, “Do you believe it?”
I said, “Yes.”
“Do you accept it?”
I said, “Yes.”
“Well, are you a Christian?”
“Mr. Moody, I sometimes think I am, and sometimes I am afraid I am not.”
He very kindly said, “Read it again.”
So I read it again, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life.”
Then he said, “Do you believe it?”
I said, “Yes.”
“Do you receive Him?”
I said, “Yes.”
“Well,” he said, “are you a Christian?”
I just started to say over again that sometimes I was afraid I was not, when the only time in all the years I knew him and loved him, he was sharp with me. He turned on me with his eyes flashing and said, “See here, whom are you doubting?” Then I saw it for the first time, that when I was afraid I was not a Christian I was doubting (a promise of Jesus Himself!) I read it again with my eyes overflowing with tears. Since that day I have had many sorrows and many joys, but never have I doubted for a moment that I was a Christian, because God said it.

It's a nice story, but it doesn't address the discrepancy in Hodges' teaching. The difference between believing and assurance is that believing is a spiritual action, and assurance is a feeling. The Bible says "believe," not "believe and feel assured."

There are 2 different kinds of assurance - the sovereign grace assurance that God speaks in His word, and the assurance one feels when finally he embraces God's assurance without question or doubting. Believing is when one begins HOPING in Christ - this is clearly stated by Paul in Romans 8 and by the writer of Hebrews.

Therefore, you cannot judge someone by claiming they are not born of God just because they don't feel the assurance they are supposed to feel as a mature Christian. This is the error of Hodges and his followers.

Incidentally, I'm no follower of MacArthur, so you judge me wrongly.

But let's examine this statement in the first link you gave: "if a person has never been convinced of the promise of everlasting life, then he has not yet been born again." What exactly does "convinced" mean? Does it really mean "feel assured"? I think not. If a person is convinced enough to be baptized, and to start praying and reading scripture (even out of mere curiosity) and attending church services, scripture tells us that we should regard such a person as a born-again brother in Christ. If they are not actually born again because they were not chosen by God (like Judas, for example), only God is able to judge such a person. "God knows those who are His." Therefore, the doctrine that a person is not born again if they don't feel assured is a false doctrine.

Therefore, the question is begged, does assurance mean feeling assured in your view?

 

[d taylor]

It's a nice story, but it doesn't address the discrepancy in Hodges' teaching. The difference between believing and assurance is that believing is a spiritual action, and assurance is a feeling. The Bible says "believe," not "believe and feel assured."

There are 2 different kinds of assurance - the sovereign grace assurance that God speaks in His word, and the assurance one feels when finally he embraces God's assurance without question or doubting. Believing is when one begins HOPING in Christ - this is clearly stated by Paul in Romans 8 and by the writer of Hebrews.

Therefore, you cannot judge someone by claiming they are not born of God just because they don't feel the assurance they are supposed to feel as a mature Christian. This is the error of Hodges and his followers.

Incidentally, I'm no follower of MacArthur, so you judge me wrongly.

But let's examine this statement in the first link you gave: "if a person has never been convinced of the promise of everlasting life, then he has not yet been born again." What exactly does "convinced" mean? Does it really mean "feel assured"? I think not. If a person is convinced enough to be baptized, and to start praying and reading scripture (even out of mere curiosity) and attending church services, scripture tells us that we should regard such a person as a born-again brother in Christ. If they are not actually born again because they were not chosen by God (like Judas, for example), only God is able to judge such a person. "God knows those who are His." Therefore, the doctrine that a person is not born again if they don't feel assured is a false doctrine.

Therefore, the question is begged, does assurance mean feeling assured in your view?

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Here is your error, you substitute things people are doing be baptized, and to start praying and reading scripture (even out of mere curiosity) and attending church services, scripture tells us that we should regard such a person as a born-again brother in Christ and equate them to being the same as believing in Jesus

So actions can not be substituted for belief in The Person Jesus. There is only one action that gives a person God's free gift of Eternal Life and that in belief in Jesus.

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

Ok question do you believe a person can believe something, but yet not know they believed.

 

[YeshuaFan]

There is something dreadfully wrong with this teaching. He (and his follower who introduces the video) assumes that assurance is the same thing as believing, so they don't make any distinction. But why would Paul, John, Peter, and the writer of Hebrews exhort believers in the churches to come into assurance, and why would they teach how to do so, if assurance came at the same time as believing and being born again? The fact is, most Christians have doubts at first, which is the lack of assurance; and yet John wrote "everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God." Assurance comes with knowledge of scripture, and this can come to individuals years after believing in Christ. Paul wrote very clearly that we are saved by HOPE in Christ, not by assurance. Certainly faith is stronger as assurance comes. Proof of faith brings assurance, and that comes with trials and with growing knowledge of scripture, and a better sense of relationship with God. Therefore, the idea that "assurance is of the essence of saving faith" is a false idea, because it starts with a false premise that a person isn't born again until they have assurance. Hogwash!

Think that its wrong to be on the extreme side of this discussion, as while Lordship Salvation proponents are reacting against the false notion that one can merely profess had an alter call experience as a kid, or came forward at a crusade, yet since then never showed any changes, no bible, church, pretty much same as before was all emotionalism not being born again, so they desire to see real fruit and evidence of a changed life now in Christ, but in their zeal at times seems to be going too far over to Law side again. While on the other hand, Hodges and his gang do want to make sure we accepts saved by grace alone received thru faith alone, yet at times seems that one can pretty much live as we once did, no real change

 

[tdidymas]

Think that its wrong to be on the extreme side of this discussion, as while Lordship Salvation proponents are reacting against the false notion that one can merely profess had an alter call experience as a kid, or came forward at a crusade, yet since then never showed any changes, no bible, church, pretty much same as before was all emotionalism not being born again, so they desire to see real fruit and evidence of a changed life now in Christ, but in their zeal at times seems to be going too far over to Law side again. While on the other hand, Hodges and his gang do want to make sure we accepts saved by grace alone received thru faith alone, yet at times seems that one can pretty much live as we once did, no real change

Not sure what your point is, except that there are antinomians who need to read James. Knowing some will profess Christ in pretense doesn't justify false doctrine that hinders true Christians.

 

[tdidymas]

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Here is your error, you substitute things people are doing be baptized, and to start praying and reading scripture (even out of mere curiosity) and attending church services, scripture tells us that we should regard such a person as a born-again brother in Christ and equate them to being the same as believing in Jesus

So actions can not be substituted for belief in The Person Jesus. There is only one action that gives a person God's free gift of Eternal Life and that in belief in Jesus.

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

Ok question do you believe a person can believe something, but yet not know they believed.

I disagree with you, I think you and Hodges are in error. Knowing that some people will respond in pretense doesn't justify false doctrine that hinders true Christians. Paul wrote "no one can say 'Jesus is Lord' except by the Holy Spirit. And in context, it obviously means sincerely, not just parroting words. So if Jesus is confessed as Lord by someone, they should be regarded as a brother in Christ. If you throw a proverbial rock at someone because you don't think they have assurance (however you define it), you're going contrary to what Jesus taught in the parable of the wheat and tares.

 

[d taylor]

I disagree with you, I think you and Hodges are in error. Knowing that some people will respond in pretense doesn't justify false doctrine that hinders true Christians. Paul wrote "no one can say 'Jesus is Lord' except by the Holy Spirit. And in context, it obviously means sincerely, not just parroting words. So if Jesus is confessed as Lord by someone, they should be regarded as a brother in Christ. If you throw a proverbial rock at someone because you don't think they have assurance (however you define it), you're going contrary to what Jesus taught in the parable of the wheat and tares.

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Hodges can not be in error, because he does not teach a false gospel as so many do. Which he is teaching against. showing that if people are correctly taught how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life, by belief in Jesus. Then that teaching will without even having to try, be accompanied with assurance.

What i believe you have a problem with. Is that Zane Hodges teaches it is belief in Jesus only, that gives people God's free gift of Eternal Life. Which is how people become born again children of God. That he is speaking against all this walking an isle, saying a prayer, repenting of sins, being obedient to God, being baptized, loving God, changing a life, etc.... that so many present as being the way to eternal life or part of believing in Jesus.

Which none of the listed actions give assurance, because non of these action give a person eternal life.

 

[tdidymas]

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Hodges can not be in error, because he does not teach a false gospel as so many do. Which he is teaching against. showing that if people are correctly taught how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life, by belief in Jesus. Then that teaching will without even having to try, be accompanied with assurance.

What i believe you have a problem with. Is that Zane Hodges teaches it is belief in Jesus only, that gives people God's free gift of Eternal Life. Which is how people become born again children of God. That he is speaking against all this walking an isle, saying a prayer, repenting of sins, being obedient to God, being baptized, loving God, changing a life, etc.... that so many present as being the way to eternal life or part of believing in Jesus.

Which none of the listed actions give assurance, because non of these action give a person eternal life.

I never said nor implied anything about walking an aisle or anything like that. The fact that Jesus spoke commands, and the fact that whoever hopes in Him will follow His commands is inherent in the gospel message. But we aren't talking about subsequent actions to believing, are we? We're talking about assurance, which is essentially a feeling, isn't it? If you FEEL assured, you have assurance, isn't this correct? If Hodges teaches that assurance is the essence of saving faith, and that you aren't born again unless you feel assured of peace with God, then isn't he in reality saying that you aren't born of God until you FEEL born of God? If this is what he is teaching, then it is false doctrine and a hindrance to the faith of new Christians.