I believe that ALL who ever lived will be in God’s Kingdom

[Jeff Saunders]

The verses you posted shouldn’t be read out of context. If you read the chapters in their entirety you’ll see a continued necessity of belief in Christ. God doesn’t force us to accept Him. We have free will to do so or not. What you’re suggesting would allow someone to live wickedly with no regard for their actions and find themselves in heaven anyway. God is just and if He didn’t spare the angels who transgressed and expelled them. Why would He do otherwise for man when the remedy was given. Consequence is a fact of life we experience in the natural. The same holds true in the spiritual.

~bella

Why do you think that God would have to force anyone to believe him? could not our creator make us in such a way that if we truly see him as he is we would fall on our face and worship him for who he is not out of force but out of love. I do not understand the idea that man is more powerful than God, I believe the only people who believe that, are those who only know religion, and have never experienced Gods love and presence.
Once you have had an encounter With the Father/Jesus , as a mortal human you will bend the knee and confess that Jesus is Lord, its as natural as breathing. We were created to love God , why do you think he made a faulty product?

 

[Jeff Saunders]

I consider it wrong.
Every man will reap what he has sown.

Why do you think the likes of Hitler, Stalin, or Mao, will be granted eternal life ?

Scripture says it will happen, who are you to say otherwise? Phil 2:10-11 Every knee should bow of those in heaven, and those on earth, and those under the earth, and every tongue gladly confess that Jesus is Lord"

 

[Beth77]

You are spot on this is the Gospel. Our Father does not do abandonment and Jesus will get 100% of what he paid for.

It's rare to encounter a Christian that believes that God gets what God wants.

 

[timothyu]

" If you read the chapters in their entirety you’ll see a continued necessity of belief in Christ."

Man believes in the Christ but who does He believe in? The Father and His Kingdom is His Gospel while man's seems to be the gospel of our salvation. Should we do as Jesus did and believe that His Kingdom will come and His Will will be done? Or are we more interested in ourselves and belief in who we say Jesus is rather than belief in what Jesus said about the Father overcoming evil and establishing His Kingdom??

 

[Jeff Saunders]

We have to take the bible as a whole and even this one verse you quoted -it states that the world "might" be saved through him. If what you believe were to be true it would certainly state that the world would be saved through him. He is the Savior for the whole world. But that just means he's it. There is no other way for salvation.

And if we go up one verse we know it's those that believeth on him, those are the ones that won't perish. Belief is a lot more than just simply believing It's entrusting our salvation in him, etc.
And repentance, that change of heart and mind is key. That's why our Father is so long suffering because he wants all to come to repentance. That can't happen in the LOF. It's not a refinery. He refines people in their lifetimes. The LOF was made for the devil and his angels. I'm one of the ones that doesn't believe in eternal conscious torment. I believe it's as stated -the second death. And if we go by Christ's teachings in Matthew 10:28 that would be the death of the soul. After that hell and death are then destroyed and then all things are made new. That doesn't mean people. If that was the case, our Lord would not have to be so long suffering waiting on everyone to come to repentance. He's looking for people who want to spend an eternity with him and the love flows both ways. If he were to make everyone new again, what's to say it wouldn't happen all over again where one wants to defy him, etc? You're also suggesting that God wants robots and that's not the case. We have a choice to love him or follow the way of Satan. And we see that in the end many will indeed still follow Satan. Christ even warns some of the churches that there's a chance if they don't repent of their sins they could be blotted out of the book of life. If that's possible than again what you're believing can't be true because that would make Christ a liar if all have life regardless.

Yes, every knee will bow, they will have no choice at that point but it's to the glory of God. They will know who the Lord is. But it doesn't mean they'll stay that way and again, many still choose willingly to follow Satan, many don't repent of their deeds. We see that all in Revelation. And what we don't see is anyone coming out of the LOF alive.

And by claiming the LOF is a refinery than you're also making Christ's ultimate sacrifice null and void if all God has to do is throw someone into the LOF and bring out a brand new person. But we know Christ does the saving, not the LOF that was "made" for Satan and his angels.

​

Look up the Greek for Phil 2:10-11 the word translated confess in English is the Greek word Exomologeo its definition is : to acknowledge, openly and joyfully, to celebrate, to give praise to without reservation. This is the very confession all must make , its not forced but a willing confession, God doesn't accept false or forced confessions. All will come to the knowledge of the truth 1 Tim 2:3-6 .Tradition has blinded many to the truth ,
IF the LOF is not a refinery as you think why does God give us scriptures like these? Malachi 3:2 He is like a refiners fire, like a fullers soap.
Hosea 5:15 Then I will return again to mu lair until they have suffered their punishment, then they will seek me; in their distress they will earnestly seek me.
Isa 48:10 Refined, purified in the furnace of misery
Ezek 22:17-22 Gods fire purifies
Zecg 13:9 I will put them into fire, I will refine them like silver and test them like gold, they will call on my name and I will answer them. I will say they are my people and they will say I am their God.
These verses and others show the Fathers heart, Why is it so hard to understand that God loves his whole creation and has a plan to reconcile everything back to himself? 2 Cor 5:19
Jesus will get 100% of what he paid for

 

[Jeff Saunders]

It's rare to encounter a Christian that believes that God gets what God wants.

Thats because most only know religion or the Bible but have never had a experience with the Living God, if they had they would understand.

 

[Hoping2]

So mans will trumps your gods will! check out Yahweh He knows how to save all his creation , he has told us 3 times in his scripture "every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord"

God gave us the keys to heaven, but we must use them, or suffer the consequences.
Both those raised to eternal life, and those who will be raised to damnation, will face Jesus Christ for an accounting.
All will be on their knees.
Only those who were obedient to Him, will get that eternal life.

I am surprised you figure otherwise ?

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Precisely what did he pay for?

John 12:47 Jesus came to save the cosmos not to judge it.
John 4:42 Jesus is the Christ, the savior of the world. ( not the potential savior)

 

[Jeff Saunders]

God gave us the keys to heaven, but we must use them, or suffer the consequences.
Both those raised to eternal life, and those who will be raised to damnation, will face Jesus Christ for an accounting.
All will be on their knees.
Only those who were obedient to Him, will get that eternal life.

I am surprised you figure otherwise ?

Please show me scripture that says we have the keys to heaven, and that our salvation relies on us not on Jesus.

 

[Hoping2]

Scripture says it will happen, who are you to say otherwise? Phil 2:10-11 Every knee should bow of those in heaven, and those on earth, and those under the earth, and every tongue gladly confess that Jesus is Lord"

The confessions of the justifiably terrified, will account for nothing.
A just God will give them exactly what they have been working for all of their lives...separation from Him.

 

[Jipsah]

Man not so as they were not given eternal life except for those of the Kingdom.

Yep. The wages of sin is death. The fate of the sinner is never to have existed. The gift of God is eternal life. Damnationists believe that everyone has eternal life by default. The Bible never says any such thing.

, anything not eternal is destroyed

And that's the long and the short of the thing. Damnationists believe that everyone lives forever, either in bliss or in torment. The Bible says no, eternal life is a gift from God, not a curse. Those who don't receive that gift, die. They're not hove into an eternal torture chamber . God, as Scripture says, really is merciful.

unless you think Death and the Grave are alive and suffering also, rather than simply being disposed of..

Yeah, when God says "I never knew you", that means you never actually existed. God's omniscient, y ou see. H knows everything. So if He says did never knew you, you were never there for Him to know. Gone. Annihilated. Obliterated. All trace of you, everything you did, everything you thought, everything that you loved, hated, helped, harmed, injured, healed, ad infinitum, not just gone, never was." Yeah, but even God can't...yes, He can. He's God, and it's His universe and He can do absolutely whatever likes. And He doesn't leave rubbish lying around. He's not some petty, pathetic human tyrant who has to torture thos who displease ant Writ largeHim to show the hoi poiioi what a heavy duty dude he is. God needn't prove anything to anyone. What displeases Him ceases to exist, The damnationist doctrine sees God as a human tyrant writ large. That betrays complete failure to understand the nature of God at all.

So yeah, when our Lord says that the Father can destroy the unsaved, that's what He meant whether it suits your nasty doctrine or not. And I'm sorry, appeals,to the Greek by people who don't know Greek sre simply ridiculous. You're simply beating a doctrinal tub, and trying to "translate" a language of which you're wholly ignorant to try and make the SCripture says what in fact it does not. To rop that off with an accusation that anyone who doesn't fall for your amateur translation "doesn't believe the Bible" is a combination of hubris and dishonesty that is truly sick making.

So anyway, thanks for reinforcing my thoughts on the sleazy nature of damnationist. I still live in the South, and there are still copious supplies of zealous nincompoops eager to bring a poor foreign heathen like myself to the True LIght of whatever boneheaded sect they favor. It's refreshng to have the opportunity from time to time to tell one of them what I actually think of their cobbled together soteriology, which is is generally the nearest thing to a theology that they have.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

The confessions of the justifiably terrified, will account for nothing.
A just God will give them exactly what they have been working for all of their lives...separation from Him.

then you do not believe scripture because that is not what scripture says. The Greek word Exomologeo does not allow the definition you are using. You are letting tradition override scripture.
Scripture is also clear that there is no place we can go that God is no there, God sustains all so no one can get away from God he is everywhere.

 

[Hoping2]

Please show me scripture that says we have the keys to heaven, and that our salvation relies on us not on Jesus.

Jesus said He would give the keys to Peter, (Matt 16:19), and Peter told us in Acts 2:38 how to get to heaven/eternal life.
Acts 2:38..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Just as the gift of the Holy Ghost depends on our actions, (repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins), so too our final judgement will depend on our actions.

 

[Hoping2]

then you do not believe scripture because that is not what scripture says. The Greek word Exomologeo does not allow the definition you are using. You are letting tradition override scripture.
Scripture is also clear that there is no place we can go that God is no there, God sustains all so no one can get away from God he is everywhere.

I do not believe any doctrine that accommodates disobedience to God.
That is precisely what your doctrine does.

 

[Jipsah]

o reason to The confessions of the justifiably terrified, will account for nothing.
A just God will give them exactly what they have been working for all of their lives...separation from Him.

GP damnationist boilerplate. Most unbelievers are simply that - unbelievers. They see no reason to believe that God exists. The "they hate God" rigamarole, is an invention designed to bolster damnationists beliefs that A) God will torture all unbelievers forever", and B) that's a Good Thing. It's actually a shameful misrepresentation.

 

[bbbbbbb]

John 12:47 Jesus came to save the cosmos not to judge it.
John 4:42 Jesus is the Christ, the savior of the world. ( not the potential savior)

Both fine verses, indeed, but neither even hints at a payment. Please tell me precisely what Jesus paid for. Thank you.

 

[Hoping2]

GP damnationist boilerplate. Most unbelievers are simply that - unbelievers. They see no reason to believe that God exists. The "they hate God" rigamarole, is an invention designed to bolster damnationists beliefs that A) God will torture all unbelievers forever", and B) that's a Good Thing. It's actually a shameful misrepresentation.

As Jesus is the one who stated that sinners hate God, I have no reason to doubt its veracity. (Matt 6:24)
He said..."No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other."
As He had said in John 8:34 that sinners serve sin, their perversions indicate that they also hate God.

I am believing Jesus now, before it is too late.
He said..."Then shall He answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to Me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: BUT the righteous into life eternal." (Matt 25:45-46)

 

[timothyu]

I have a wrench that slipped all the time and replaced it with another that served my needs. But instead of eliminating the useless wrench I kept and punished it forever because it was of no use.

 

[Hoping2]

I have a wrench that slipped all the time and replaced it with another that served my needs. But instead of eliminating the useless wrench I kept and punished it forever because it was of no use.

Would you have been so...kind, if the wrench was "slipping" on purpose ?

 

[Beth77]

but have never had a experience with the Living God

Please share your testimony. I am eager to read it!