I believe that ALL who ever lived will be in God’s Kingdom

[Hoping2]

But apparently He doesn't mind having them tortured for all eternity if they don't. That's Unconditional Love in action right there, innit?

Where do you see "unconditional" love in the bible ?
In fact, it is written..."The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity." (Psalm 5:5)

And if they don't, torture them forever. "His mercy endures forever." Maybe "malice" was the word they were actually looking for.

The sinners will get what they desire, forever...separation from God.

But torture presumably does not.

Men have two options in this life.
Love God, or hate Him.
Men know the consequences of both.

 

[Beth77]

Nobody leaves the lake of fire.

Well you are absolutely wrong, of course, but I appreciate you sharing your theology!

 

[Free2bHeretical4Him!]

All are in Adam by natural generation and die, but not all are in Christ by faith and made alive, only those who believe in and trust on him and his atoning sacrifice for the remission of their sin are in Christ and made alive.

That is not what the Scripture states at all. How do you arrive at your “generational qualification” concerning the ALL in Adam dying? I‘m sure I recently read somewhere in a thread, in which you were commenting on the absolute necessity for precision in defining and using the language of Scripture. Please show me how you arrive at your “generational interpretation“, within the context of this glorious passage of scripture found in Paul’s first letter to the church at Corinth?

This passage is clear to anyone who is willing to accept the plain truth of Scripture at face value. No need to qualify. No need to “infuse” in to the passage something that is not present in the text. Paul begins his treatise with the declaration of the Gospel. This by itself candidly speaks of man’s lost condition. Were we not dead in our trespasses and sins? Spiritually dead and blind, not just physically dead.

Then Paul establishes the absolute validity and necessity of the resurrection as well as the implications for mankind if the resurrection never happened. The hopelessness and plight of man is put on display with the resurrection being the foundation for eradicating man’s hopelessness. Don’t you think Paul spent a long time building his case for the resurrection, as if it were the crowning jewel of the work of Christ, and it is, in establishing the power of the Gospel? All this just because man died physically in Adam?

No. The contrast between the first Adam and his failure with the second Adam‘s victory is both stark and unavoidable. The exact same ALL that are in Adam grammatically are the exact same ALL that are in Christ. No ambiguity in the text whatsoever. The first Adam plunged the totality of the human race in to both physical and spiritual death. The second Adam liberated the exact same ALL. Sorry, but according to the text the final consummation of the work of Christ is to give back to the Father ALL, himself included, given to him by the Father, that God may be ALL IN ALL. That’s what the text says. Read it for yourself and let the Scripture breathe out the truth that the complete and total victory of Christ has secured ALL MANKIND safely and God will be ALL IN ALL.

blessings …

 

[Beth77]

That is not what the Scripture states at all. How do you arrive at your “generational qualification” concerning the ALL in Adam dying? I‘m sure I recently read somewhere in a thread, in which you were commenting on the absolute necessity for precision in defining and using the language of Scripture. Please show me how you arrive at your “generational interpretation“, within the context of this glorious passage of scripture found in Paul’s first letter to the church at Corinth?

This passage is clear to anyone who is willing to accept the plain truth of Scripture at face value. No need to qualify. No need to “infuse” in to the passage something that is not present in the text. Paul begins his treatise with the declaration of the Gospel. This by itself candidly speaks of man’s lost condition. Were we not dead in our trespasses and sins? Spiritually dead and blind, not just physically dead.

Then Paul establishes the absolute validity and necessity of the resurrection as well as the implications for mankind if the resurrection never happened. The hopelessness and plight of man is put on display with the resurrection being the foundation for eradicating man’s hopelessness. Don’t you think Paul spent a long time building his case for the resurrection, as if it were the crowning jewel of the work of Christ, and it is, in establishing the power of the Gospel? All this just because man died physically in Adam?

No. The contrast between the first Adam and his failure with the second Adam‘s victory is both stark and unavoidable. The exact same ALL that are in Adam grammatically are the exact same ALL that are in Christ. No ambiguity in the text whatsoever. The first Adam plunged the totality of the human race in to both physical and spiritual death. The second Adam liberated the exact same ALL. Sorry, but according to the text the final consummation of the work of Christ is to give back to the Father ALL, himself included, given to him by the Father, that God may be ALL IN ALL. That’s what the text says. Read it for yourself and let the Scripture breathe out the truth that the complete and total victory of Christ has secured ALL MANKIND safely and God will be ALL IN ALL.

blessings …

Perfectly said. Thank you.

 

[Hoping2]

Well you are absolutely wrong, of course, but I appreciate you sharing your theology!

Did Adam and Eve get to return to the garden of Eden ?
Did any of the escaping Israelites get to enter the Promised Land, besides Joshua and Caleb ?
Did anyone escape Sodom, or Gomorrah ?
The unrighteous have their fate.
What pattern are you relying on to think sinners will have an after-the-fact chance at eternal life ?
If they won't turn from sin, they are doomed.
It is written..."Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." (Matt 25:45-46)

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

But apparently He doesn't mind having them tortured for all eternity if they don't.

So you want to do evil and be rewarded by eternal life in Heaven?

God is good and therefore He must punish all evil.

And not loving is evil.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

That's Unconditional Love in action right there, innit?

And how about you loving God? Ehy don't you love Him unconditionally?

 

[trophy33]

So you think Jesus was warning them about staying out of the garbage dump?

Gehenna symbolized certainty of physical destruction and disgrace. Nothing regarding pain or life in pain or prison or anything like that.

 

[Beth77]

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." (Matt 25:45-46)

Inaccurate translation. Here is a correct translation.

Matthew 25:46
Young's Literal Translation
46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

 

[Beth77]

God is good and therefore He must punish all evil.

May I ask, have you read the entire thread?

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

May I ask, have you read the entire thread?

About half, why?

 

[Clare73]

What a shame. Goodbye.

It is indeed shameful when one chooses one's own personal belief over the word of Jesus himself in Mk 9:47-48:

"It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into Gehenna where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched."

 

[Clare73]

That is not what the Scripture states at all. How do you arrive at your “generational qualification” concerning the ALL in Adam dying? I‘m sure I recently read somewhere in a thread, in which you were commenting on the absolute necessity for precision in defining and using the language of Scripture. Please show me how you arrive at your “generational interpretation“, within the context of this glorious passage of scripture found in Paul’s first letter to the church at Corinth?

You can start with Ro 5:12, where Adam's sin is imputed (charged to) to all those of Adam, and "in this way death came to all men" because all men were made guilty of Adam's sin. . .just as Christ's righteousness is imputed to all those of Christ (2 Co 5:21) and we are made righteous with Christ's righteousness in Ro 5:18-19.

 

[Clare73]

Gehenna symbolized certainty of physical destruction and disgrace. Nothing regarding pain or life in pain or prison or anything like that.

Or was he referring to the fire in the garbage dump that always burned because fuel (garbage) was continually being added to the fire?

And so when Jesus speaks of condemnation, he is referring simply to physical destruction and disgrace. . .and that you are already physically destroyed and disgraced if you do not love him (Jn 3:18).

Has common sense left the room?

 

[Clare73]

Gehenna was not about any kind of eternal torture, though.

Jesus is the only one who speaks of hell in the NT.

Did Jesus speak of the condemned ever getting out of the unquenchable fire (Mk 9:44)?

Did he say the condemned ever get out of the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels (Mt 25:41)?

 

[Clare73]

Yes of course it does.

So you're defending an interpretation which you think could be false?

 

[trophy33]

Or was he referring to the fire in the garbage dump that always burned because fuel (garbage) was continually being added to the fire?

There is no "or" there. It is the same point. The fire and the worm were the means of the destruction in Gehenna. Not of torture.

And so when Jesus speaks of condemnation, he is referring simply to physical destruction and disgrace. . .and that you are already physically destroyed and disgraced if you do not love him (Jn 3:18).

What?

Has common sense left the room?

Try to find it, then.

 

[trophy33]

Did Jesus speak of the condemned ever getting out of the unquenchable fire (Mk 9:44)?

It was already explained to you what Gehenna meant.

Did he say the condemned ever get out of the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels (Mt 25:41)?

No, Jesus did not explicitly say that the condemned will get out. Mt 25:41 is not even explicitly about hell. It is not even explicitly about individual people being saved by faith or condemned because of unbelief. It is rather about the judgement of nations in his coming, being judged by their actions towards Christians. So, what point are you trying to make here?

 

[Beth77]

About half, why?

Because I shared a lot of scripture to support the doctrine that, eventually, all who ever existed will be in God's Kingdom. I encourage you to scroll through and read them.

 

[timothyu]

Question. If they couldn't do God's will while alive, what makes you think they will automatically change in the next? Having a fleshy body is a problem yes, but being without one does not set us back on track.