A "lie" is intentionally saying something that one knows to be untrue. Why do you believe that Trump is "lying"? What does Trump have to gain by lying about South Africa?
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President Trump confronted South African president about murders and persecution of white people
- Thread starter Beth77
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A "lie" is intentionally saying something that one knows to be untrue. Why do you believe that Trump is "lying"? What does Trump have to gain by lying about South Africa?
After the obligatory video ad the video you referenced begins and it lasts for one hour and 4 minutes.
Again, where exactly did this happen?
Your quote: "And he called on South African's to be arressted imediately for expressing their views."?
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South African Golf Legend Ernie Els Stuns Trump with Impressive Message During Tense Oval Office Meeting
Ramaphosa said his reason for coming was to reset the relations with the U.S., Trump clearly had another agenda item in mind.
www.westernjournal.com
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Citanul
Well, when exactly do you mean?
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Black farmers are being murdered too. The majority of farmers are white, so people have ended up focusing on the white part to push their own narrative.
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- Aug 18, 2012
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"Mr. Trump told Mr. Ramaphosa that the footage showed “burial sites” of “over 1,000” white farmers in South Africa.
A New York Times analysis found that the footage instead showed a memorial procession on Sept. 5, 2020, near Newcastle, South Africa. The event, according to a local news website, was for a white farming couple in the area who the police said had been murdered in late August of that year.
The crosses were planted in the days ahead of the event and were later removed.
....
As the clip played, Mr. Trump said: “These are burial sites right here. Burial sites. Over a thousand of white farmers.”
A New York Times analysis found that the footage instead showed a memorial procession on Sept. 5, 2020, near Newcastle, South Africa. The event, according to a local news website, was for a white farming couple in the area who the police said had been murdered in late August of that year.
The crosses were planted in the days ahead of the event and were later removed.
....
As the clip played, Mr. Trump said: “These are burial sites right here. Burial sites. Over a thousand of white farmers.”
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So if Trump misspoke when he said "burial sites", it means that white farmers are in no way being targeted, right?
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- Aug 18, 2012
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White farmers have been targeted. So have black farmers. S. African officials acknowledged crime is a real problem that needs to be addressed.
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White farmers have been murdered in South Africa. That's not disputed.
What's disputed is that this is a "genocide".
Firstly, it appears that the rate of murder against white South African farmers has declined substantially as a whole and is now lower than the rate of murder in the South African population as a whole. The caveat here is that it is very difficult to tell if this is an accurate number, as estimates of the total 'farm resident' population are exceptionally challenging. What is known for sure, is that the numbers of murders on South African farms and small holdings are now less than half of what they were in the 1990s, when this was a much more serious problem. Additionally, the overall homicide rate for white South Africans remains at less than 1/4th of the rate suffered across the whole population.
Secondly, it appears that the murder rate of black South African farmers/small holders and farm workers is either not substantially different, or potentially slightly higher, than the rate of murder suffered by their white South African counterparts. Again, certainty is difficult, as South Africa takes a while to release statistics with breakdowns by racial group.
The population of South African farmers is overwhelmingly white, with estimates they make up somewhere between77% and 84% [correction between 74% and 92%] of farm owners. Yet, according to official crime statistics, whites comprised 75% of the victims of farm murders for 2017/2018 and only 62% of victims in the 2001-2013 period.
Consider this anecdotal case: In late 2022 there was a killing of seven individuals on a farm in Free State. All of the victims were black South Africans. Yet, this is the sort of crime that gets rolled into statistics that are being (mis)used to support the notion that there is a genocide against white South African farmers.
Thirdly, no racial or hate crime style motivation is apparent in the vast majority of cases. What does appear to be the motivation is material gain. This is due to a combination of poverty, displacement, opportunity thanks to the isolation and relative dearth of law enforcement personnel in these rural areas. According to the South African police, robbery is the motivation in almost 90% of farm attacks. Political/racial motivations were identified in only 2% of cases.
Fourthly, this just doesn't meet any definitions of "genocide". Not in extent, not in intent and not in outcomes. Annual homicides on farms and small holdings number in the dozens or very low three figures per year. In the last six years, the annual homicides on farms and small holdings in South Africa have been 47, 57, 62, 69, 50 and 51. To put that into context, more South African police die in the line of duty every year.
Simply put, there is no co-ordinated campaign here to exterminate white South African farmers, or drive them off their land.
Latest crime statistics:
Full historical statistics: https://www.saps.gov.za/services/crimestats.php
2014 report on human rights investigation into farming attacks:
What's disputed is that this is a "genocide".
Firstly, it appears that the rate of murder against white South African farmers has declined substantially as a whole and is now lower than the rate of murder in the South African population as a whole. The caveat here is that it is very difficult to tell if this is an accurate number, as estimates of the total 'farm resident' population are exceptionally challenging. What is known for sure, is that the numbers of murders on South African farms and small holdings are now less than half of what they were in the 1990s, when this was a much more serious problem. Additionally, the overall homicide rate for white South Africans remains at less than 1/4th of the rate suffered across the whole population.
Secondly, it appears that the murder rate of black South African farmers/small holders and farm workers is either not substantially different, or potentially slightly higher, than the rate of murder suffered by their white South African counterparts. Again, certainty is difficult, as South Africa takes a while to release statistics with breakdowns by racial group.
The population of South African farmers is overwhelmingly white, with estimates they make up somewhere between
Consider this anecdotal case: In late 2022 there was a killing of seven individuals on a farm in Free State. All of the victims were black South Africans. Yet, this is the sort of crime that gets rolled into statistics that are being (mis)used to support the notion that there is a genocide against white South African farmers.
Thirdly, no racial or hate crime style motivation is apparent in the vast majority of cases. What does appear to be the motivation is material gain. This is due to a combination of poverty, displacement, opportunity thanks to the isolation and relative dearth of law enforcement personnel in these rural areas. According to the South African police, robbery is the motivation in almost 90% of farm attacks. Political/racial motivations were identified in only 2% of cases.
Fourthly, this just doesn't meet any definitions of "genocide". Not in extent, not in intent and not in outcomes. Annual homicides on farms and small holdings number in the dozens or very low three figures per year. In the last six years, the annual homicides on farms and small holdings in South Africa have been 47, 57, 62, 69, 50 and 51. To put that into context, more South African police die in the line of duty every year.
Simply put, there is no co-ordinated campaign here to exterminate white South African farmers, or drive them off their land.
Latest crime statistics:
Full historical statistics: https://www.saps.gov.za/services/crimestats.php
2014 report on human rights investigation into farming attacks:
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Hans Blaster
Hood was a loser.
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Do you remember the story of the boy who cried wolf? Well...
Trump has lied so many times about big things that if a falsehood was told, why should we think he didn't know it was false.
The alternative is that he is being conned (just like you are) by liars. Who are those liars? Can't know for certain, but if I had to guess I'd start with South Africans Elon Musk and David Sacks who are both presidential advisors and xenophobic hate-monger Steven Miller.
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- Aug 18, 2012
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South African officials speaking at the White House. I would cite it if there was a WH transcript. Otherwise, you'll just have to watch the CSPAN video.
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Citanul
Well, when exactly do you mean?
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A picture of a man standing at a podium is hardly the slam dunk you think it is. And why shouldn't people who are deliberately spreading misinformation be criticised, even punished?
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Citanul
Well, when exactly do you mean?
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If you're referring to the "Kill the Boer song, a majority of people surveyed are opposed to it.
Public perceptions on Kill the Boer
The Social Research Foundation (SRF) recently commissioned a short, nationally representative survey on public perceptions around free speech, hate speech and the song Kill the Boer.
inside-politics.org
"Significantly, 57% of EFF supporters identified the song as “clearly hate speech”. A further 26% said singing the song was “irresponsible”. So a total of 83% of EFF supporters felt the song irresponsible or hate speech. That is a remarkable finding." (The EFF is the party led by Julius Malema, the politician shown in the video)
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If you're referring to the "Kill the Boer song, a majority of people surveyed are opposed to it.
Public perceptions on Kill the Boer
The Social Research Foundation (SRF) recently commissioned a short, nationally representative survey on public perceptions around free speech, hate speech and the song Kill the Boer.
"Significantly, 57% of EFF supporters identified the song as “clearly hate speech”. A further 26% said singing the song was “irresponsible”. So a total of 83% of EFF supporters felt the song irresponsible or hate speech. That is a remarkable finding." (The EFF is the party led by Julius Malema, the politician shown in the video)
So why does the South African Government permit it?
It looked like 100,000 people in that stadium screaming wildly for the murder of white people.
Do you believe this sort of thing should be addressed?
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