Roman Catholic Prayer to Mary - Is it scriptural?

[Always in His Presence]

"Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen."

1. Where is the example of someone saying it in Scripture?
2. When was it first used as an example of prayer.

Please - no disparaging remarks about our Roman Catholic family.

 

[Always in His Presence]

This is what I have found in a brief search:

The Hail Mary prayer, as we know it today, evolved over several centuries. It has roots in early Christian prayers, but its form gradually developed. Here’s a rough timeline of its history:

1. The Biblical Foundation (1st Century)​

The prayer is based on two key Bible verses:

• Luke 1:28 – "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee" (Gabriel's greeting to Mary at the Annunciation).
• Luke 1:42 – "Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb" (Elizabeth's greeting to Mary at the Visitation).

2. Early Christian Prayers (3rd-4th Century)​

Christians began using various prayers of praise to Mary, but they were not yet structured in the form of the Hail Mary. For example, the title Ave Maria (Hail Mary in Latin) was used in the early centuries, but it was often a greeting or part of a longer prayer.

3. The First Part of the Hail Mary (6th Century)​

The first part of the prayer—"Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee"—emerges in this period. The phrase “Ave Maria” was used in Christian liturgies, especially in the East, and gradually incorporated into prayers.

4. The Second Part: "Blessed is the Fruit of Thy Womb" (12th Century)​

By the 12th century, the second line of the prayer, “Blessed is the fruit of thy womb,” became commonly used, inspired by the Gospel of Luke. This was a natural extension of Mary’s praise, acknowledging the significance of Jesus, her son.

5. The Final Part: "Holy Mary, Mother of God" (16th Century)​

The final line, "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death," was added later. This addition became standardized in the 16th century, particularly after the Council of Trent (1545–1563), which sought to clarify and define Catholic doctrine in the wake of the Protestant Reformation.

6. Final Form​

By the 16th century, the Hail Mary prayer took its modern form:

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee;
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

This prayer became a central part of Catholic devotion and has remained largely unchanged since then.

So, the Hail Mary prayer was first used as a prayer in a recognizable form around the 16th century, although its elements had been in use for centuries before that.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Mat 6:6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you [a]openly.

Mat 23:9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.

This is the example in the Bible in which manner we should pray

Mat 6:9 In this manner, therefore, pray:

Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10 Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
13 And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
[a]For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

I know of no example to pray to Mary or any other human, dead or alive in the Bible. Jesus taught us to pray to our Father in heaven.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Here is an example of a gentle, loving and beautiful prayer from Jesus, the meaning is profound but few grasp it.

Note that Jesus prays to His Father in Heaven.

17 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He [a]should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together [b]with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Jesus Prays for His Disciples​

6 “I have [c]manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep[d] through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them [e]in the world, I kept them in [f]Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is [g]lost except the son of [h]perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify[i] them by Your truth. Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

Jesus Prays for All Believers​

20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who [j]will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.


24 “Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. 26 And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”

 

[concretecamper]

Luke 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

1:42 And she cried out with a loud voice and said: Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

1:43 And whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

"Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death Amen" is just a petition similar to asking anyone to pray for them.

 

[BobRyan]

"Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen."

1. Where is the example of someone saying it in Scripture?
2. When was it first used as an example of prayer.

Please - no disparaging remarks about our Roman Catholic family.

1. There is no case that I know of in the NT where someone asks a deceased person to pray for them.
2. There is no case OT or NT where someone who is dead is asked to do anything at all - outside of a parable.

The text above does quote from a statement made by an Angel to Mary - but that angel also does not ask Mary to do anything for him or to pray for someone

===================== WHEN is a good time to introduce that doctrine to Christianity? The first century?


Apparently the Nov 1 , 1950 doctrine was a bit more extensive than just - Mary was resurrected and bodily assumed into heaven..


from:

Pius XII Proclaims the Doctrine of the Assumption | EBSCO

Pope Pius XII proclaimed the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary as an official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church on November 1, 1950, through the Apostolic Constitution titled *Munificentissimus Deus*. This doctrine states that at the end of her life, the Virgin Mary was assumed body and...

www.ebsco.com

"In the mid-eighteenth century, Pope Benedict XIV declared the Assumption to be a “probable opinion,” which conferred upon it at least a semiofficial status. A century later, in 1854, Pope Pius IX decreed that Mary had been born without original sin. The promulgation of this dogma of the Immaculate Conception encouraged many to seek similar validation for a doctrine of the Assumption, but Pius IX said the time was not yet ripe for another Marian doctrine.​

​

"The time for such a doctrine came during the reign of Pius XII. Again, it was against the background of the mounting challenge of communism and a pervasive secularism that the pope moved to reinvigorate the spiritual life of the Catholic laity. Since there were few other devotions closer to his own spirituality than the various liturgies to Mary, he had long viewed with special sympathy an authoritative Church recognition of Mary’s assumption. In 1946, only a year after the war, Pius had asked the Catholic bishops around the world to express their views, and those of their clergy and laity, on making Mary’s assumption official Church dogma. When 99 percent of the 1,234 bishops responded in the affirmative, the only question was when the pope would take the final step.​

​

By late 1950, Pius XII was ready. On November 1, he promulgated a special bull, or Apostolic Constitution. Its title, taken from the first two words of the Latin document, was Munificentissmus Deus (the most bountiful God). Henceforth, the dogma of the Assumption was to be believed by all Catholics. As officially defined,​

​

Mary had at her life’s end ascended body and soul into Paradise,​

where she would preside forever alongside her divine son,​

interceding on behalf of her fellow human beings​

and serving as the perfect model for all humankind.​

She could be prayed to and venerated for her unique status, but she was not considered equal in status to Christ.​

​

To give further force to his decree, Pius XII proclaimed that the new teaching on the Assumption had an infallible authority..."​

 

[BobRyan]

Luke 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee:

Yes the angel does say that to Mary - but no one else does in the entire NT

1:42 And she cried out with a loud voice and said: Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
1:43 And whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

"Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death Amen" is just a petition similar to asking anyone to pray for them.

There is no case OT or NT where someone prays to a deceased person "at the hour of death".

 

[BobRyan]

Here is an example of a gentle, loving and beautiful prayer from Jesus, the meaning is profound but few grasp it.

Note that Jesus prays to His Father in Heaven.

17 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He [a]should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together [b]with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Jesus Prays for His Disciples​

6 “I have [c]manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.

Indeed there are many cases in the OT and NT where a living person prays TO GOD on behalf of other living persons.

(Using the term "living person" as in the normal sense where that person is not dead and buried no matter how one may view their soul while the body is in the grave).

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

"Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death Amen" is just a petition similar to asking anyone to pray for them.

Mary is not omnipresent nor is she omnscient. She, nor anyone else but God can hear your prayer.

Prayer belongs to God alone.

Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and man.

No, it is not the same as going to someone physically to go and ask to pray for them.

How much longer will people make Mary something she is not?

 

[The Liturgist]

Jesus taught us to pray to our Father in heaven.

Not exclusively. What is more, he also did not object to prayers addressed to Him. We must remember that Jesus Christ is God.

As for the Hail Mary, the initial part of it, which is used as the Theotokion in Orthodox hymns and by Martin Luther as my Lutheran friend @MarkRohfrietsch will confirm, is completely scriptural. If St. Gabriel the Archangel says to the Mother of God “Blessed art Thou among women”, then I will do so.

Additionally, intercessory prayer to the saints, while not practiced by most Lutherans, is practiced by the Orthodox, Catholics and many Anglicans.

I strongly reccommend to all Christians to ask for the intercessions of the Theotokos while praying and to develop a relationship with Our Lady as this is beneficial in deepening our relationship with Christ our True God - the two are not mutually exclusive, but actually, rather, the more one loves the Blessed Virgin Mary, the more one will find oneself loving to, depending on and turning to Christ in times of crisis, in my experience.

The thing I am most thankful for since I converted to Orthodoxy, has been the development of my relationship with the Mother of God, and I believe many converts to Roman Catholicism and High Church Anglicanism have reported the same very positive experience. If you love a man who loves his mother, you should love his mother also, and Jesus Christ, the God-man who saves us from sin, did love His mother infinitely, and so his mother, while not worshipped, is the subject of hyperdoulia, extreme veneration, being venerated more than the other Saints or the Holy Cross.

However, Orthodox and Roman Catholics (and traditional Anglo Catholics) reserve worship for God, worshipping HIm in the Trinity, the Unity of the three persons of the Holy, Consubstantial and Life Giving Trinity, for God is alone worthy of adoration and worship (latria). We venerate (doulia) however those who have been saved in Christ as well as members of our family and the Holy Cross and the Holy Icons and the relics of the saints, which despite the inclination of some to scoff at this, do in fact posess actual miraculous properties, just as our monastics possess the gifts of the Holy Spirit that Pentecostals and Charismatics are interested in. Likewise, relics in the possession of Roman Catholics, whether of Western saints from before the Schism or of Eastern saints whose relics were expropriated, and perhaps of post-schism Roman Catholic saints, whose existence I regard as likely* have not ceased to be miraculous.

* One important ecumenical product must be the development of a martyrology or synaxarion that incorporates those from the Western Church who, given the reunification of parts of the Western Church with Orthodoxy, can be venerated now, and additionally those who can be venerated once communion is restored between the Roman and Orthodox churches. Fortunately, Anglicans have already developed a Protestant martyrology or synaxarion which includes such important Protestant martyrs and saints as St. Charles I of England and St. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, and indeed the Orthodox of the Czech Lands and Slovakia officially venerate St. Jan Hus and St. Jerome of Prague as martyrs, despite their association with Protestantism due to the subsequent history of the Unitas Fratrum, although from our perspective the movement was initially an attempt to restore Orthodox liturgical practices such as communion in both species and vernacular liturgy, which had been enjoyed by the Slavic people in the Czech Lands and Slovakia before Austria conquered them in the year 1200 and converted them to the Roman Rite (which would later be prohibited by the RCC, which would prohibit converting Byzantine Rite Christians to the Roman Rite under such conditions, particularly following the Union of Brest and the formation of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, which marked the beginning of modern Eastern Catholicism as we now know it).

 

[The Liturgist]

Using the term "living person" as in the normal sense where that person is not dead and buried no matter how one may view their soul while the body is in the grave

In the case of The Blessed Virgin Mary, her body was taken up to Heaven, bodily, as is the case with St. Moses and St. Elias (and probably St. Enoch), so at a minimum by the logic of this argument, if we can only ask for the prayers of those who are alive bodily, we should at a minimum be able to ask for the intercession of the Holy Prophets Moses and Elias and the Mother of God.

Of course the reality is that those who have reposed in Christ are alive in Christ, and in the case of the saints - those who, through martyrdom or other circumstances, the Christian community acquired certain knowledge that they are among the Church Triumphant, we can definitely ask for their intercession.

One interesting error in the Adventist approach to Eschatology is the idea that time passes for God the way it does for everyone else, for example, the idea that Christ our True God would need to spend hundreds of years conducting an Investigative Judgement, when Scripture affirms that God is eternal and unchanging. Since eternal life in the age to come is what we are interested in, Soul Sleep, if it were correct, which we know it not to be, would not preclude asking the saints for their intercessions, since they would still be alive in what is for us the World to Come, but our human temporal perspective exists only because God created for us spacetime, the interconnected space and time in which the reality of this world exists.

Indeed that Time is a creature created by Christ our True God is Gospel Truth, for time is a Thing and John 1:1-18 plainly states that all things were made by Jesus Christ as the only begotten Son and Word of God.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

"Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen."

1. Where is the example of someone saying it in Scripture?
2. When was it first used as an example of prayer.

Please - no disparaging remarks about our Roman Catholic family.

Luke 1:28 and following, "And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women." Luk 1:28 DRB

Why did you not recognise it from saint Luke's gospel?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

no one else does in the entire NT

You're not in the NT either.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

There is no case OT or NT where someone prays to a deceased person "at the hour of death".

It would help if your quote were accurate, "at the hour of our death" says the prayer. And prayers for the fallen in battle, for relatives, and petitions to angels and prophets are in the bible but not in the edited versions that are common in your circles.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Mary is not omnipresent nor is she omnscient. She, nor anyone else but God can hear your prayer.

Blessed Mary, the mother of our Lord and God Jesus Christ, is in eternity and by God's gift and grace can hear prayers.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

What is more, he also did not object to prayers addressed to Him. We must remember that Jesus Christ is God.

No one is objecting to prayers addressed to Jesus who is God, not sure where you got that from.

Jesus never told us to model our prayers to any human, He directed prayers to the Father in Heaven, I always I like to finish my prayers with in Jesus name. .

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Blessed Mary, the mother of our Lord and God Jesus Christ, is in eternity and by God's gift and grace can hear prayers.

Where in the Scripture does it say she can hear prayers?

She is blessed, because God was merciful to her, a sinner, like me and you.

Even if she could hear your prayer, which she can't, why would you not pray to God who loves you infinitely more than anyone else ever will. Is He too busy for your prayers?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Where in the Scripture does it say she can hear prayers?

She is blessed, because God was merciful to her, a sinner, like me and you.

Even if she could hear your prayer, which she can't, why would you not pray to God who loves you infinitely more than anyone else ever will. Is He too busy for your prayers?

Oh dear, where does holy scripture say that Jesus or the Holy Spirit can hear prayers? Honestly, why is it that Protestants couch their doubts and arguments in the language of atheism?

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Oh dear, where does holy scripture say that Jesus or the Holy Spirit can hear prayers? Honestly, why is it that Protestants couch their doubts and arguments in the language of atheism?

You cannot be serious with this argument.

Jesus and Holy Spirit are God, Mary is not.

Although, it is what Catholics make out of her. Calling her our Lady, Queen of Heaven (seriously this does not raise a huge red flag?), calling her sinless, built stuatutes of her, pray to her, call her mediator between man and Jesus. And other blasphemies.

 

[bèlla]

I do not attribute a greeting from the angel Gabriel as a license to pray to Mary or for her veneration. While she was chosen as a vessel for Christ she is noticeably absent elsewhere. There are many things attributed to her that lack biblical support and hail wholly from men. I do not consider prayer or veneration to anyone beyond the Lord as an acceptable practice for myself or my household. Some feel differently and that is their choice.

~bella