Are Folks Making America Hate Again?

[doubtingmerle]

That’s not true. Marco Rubio got two new jobs this year.

Just contradicted your previous comment.

Or he changed his mind after becoming more informed.

You’re assuming schools are the only way someone can become educated.

Pretty sure USAID wasn’t closed down just because Rubio didn’t like parts of the department if you read what he said.

No, crying over a closed department when aid can still be given out without the need for that department is the dumbest thing imaginable.

LOL. Chopping a post into little chunks and then responding to each chunk as though each soundbite stands alone is not a response.

Understanding deep thought requires comprehending paragraphs and combinations of paragraphs, and then responding to the overall thought being expressed.

One cannot respond to an approaching tsunami, for instance, by saying, "One molecule of water here. No problem. One molecule of water there. No problem. One molecule..."

 

[A2SG]

This^^^The media is driving the hate.

I don't know if the media is actually creating any hate, but merely reporting on it. The hate you see doesn't begin with a reporter, it begins with whatever that reporter is writing about.

It should be illegal to lie like they do but I guess it’s not?

There's that pesky old First Amendment.

You’ll find that all the haters are driven by the medias lies and propaganda.

The media isn't one thing, and, generally speaking, it doesn't have a single agenda. Each specific media outlet may have a particular point of view they're promoting (Fox News for the right, for example; MSNBC for the left), but there are plenty of media outlets that fall all over the political or ideological spectrum. But, in the end, all of them report on events going on in the world, they don't create the news. They report it. Some with more bias than others, I'll grant you.

If I was president I would be making slandering and lying on the news illegal(although it probably already is just not enforced).

Slander and libel are not crimes, but they are actionable. If you defame someone, whether in spoken form (slander) or written (libel), they can sue you, and if the legal standard is met (it can differ for different people: public figures, for example, have a larger legal burden to be met), you could very well be held liable and fined for defamation. But you won't be subject to the police arresting you, it's a tort, not a crime.

Also, don't forget, media outlets can be held accountable for libel, too. Remember when Fox News was sued by Dominion for defamation when they continued to lie, knowingly, about the false claims of a stolen 2020 election? They decided that, rather than be found guilty in court, to settle and pay $787 million.

But beyond all that, it should be noted that the President does not determine what is or isn't illegal. That's what Congress is for.

-- A2SG, seems some people are unclear on that bit.....

 

[Bradskii]

Wow. Didn’t know Trump had mind control powers and could take away people’s autonomy.

He has people believing everything he says. Because he tells them he'll give them everything that they want. He's lying, of course. But when you hear what you want to hear it's all too easy to believe it.

That’s right, we don’t need it to give foreign aid. I wasn’t told this, I simply looked it up.

You were told that. And it's what you wanted to hear.

I hope you’re not suggesting Trump is mind controlling me too.

See the first point I made. If you want to call that 'mind control' that's up to you.

 

[The_Mantis]

I don't know if the media is actually creating any hate, but merely reporting on it. The hate you see doesn't begin with a reporter, it begins with whatever that reporter is writing about.


There's that pesky old First Amendment.


The media isn't one thing, and, generally speaking, it doesn't have a single agenda. Each specific media outlet may have a particular point of view they're promoting (Fox News for the right, for example; MSNBC for the left), but there are plenty of media outlets that fall all over the political or ideological spectrum. But, in the end, all of them report on events going on in the world, they don't create the news. They report it. Some with more bias than others, I'll grant you.


Slander and libel are not crimes, but they are actionable. If you defame someone, whether in spoken form (slander) or written (libel), they can sue you, and if the legal standard is met (it can differ for different people: public figures, for example, have a larger legal burden to be met), you could very well be held liable and fined for defamation. But you won't be subject to the police arresting you, it's a tort, not a crime.

Also, don't forget, media outlets can be held accountable for libel, too. Remember when Fox News was sued by Dominion for defamation when they continued to lie, knowingly, about the false claims of a stolen 2020 election? They decided that, rather than be found guilty in court, to settle and pay $787 million.

But beyond all that, it should be noted that the President does not determine what is or isn't illegal. That's what Congress is for.

-- A2SG, seems some people are unclear on that bit.....

I fully think this is media driven. I am mostly talking about the left media. I haven’t seen the same amount of hate coming from the right. Fox is the only major right wing news that I know of. CNN, NBC, MSNBC, etc are all left wing propagandists. People watch that garbage every single day and get brain washed. I hear angry liberals just spew the talking points that the news just covered. Most of the time the lies are easily refuted but it doesn’t matter, they only believe what is told to them on TV. It is literally dividing the country. I know people who still argue that Trump is going to take away their right to kill their own baby. Thats what they are worried about. Or that is is the end of democracy or Russia, Russia, Russia. Lies all day long. Period.

 

[doubtingmerle]

There are many good people who want things to change in the countries those illegal immigrants are from. I would hope you would want those places to change too.

Why do you just hope that I want those places to change? I have told you repeatedly that I want the desperate countries in the global South to change for the better.

I am for world peace. I am for prosperity for all. Please do not pretend otherwise. Please do not suggest that I support strife or poverty in the global South. I have clearly stated my position repeatedly, and yet you ignore what I say and act as if I’m arguing the opposite.

Consistently ignoring my statements and accusing me of saying the opposite is not a sound debate strategy.

Does your religion encourage you to treat people the way you treat people here? If so, I don't want your religion.

Would you tell illegal immigrants to staying there in their countries and placing their bets that, in the long run, good wins?

Where possible, yes—staying and working to make one’s country a better place is a good strategy.

But, as we’ve agreed, there are genuine asylum seekers who deserve the opportunity to make their case. If there is a real need, they should be offered asylum—within the limits of what we can reasonably support.

None of this addresses the point that many undocumented individuals are here and working in ways that benefit both us and them. In these cases, it is more compassionate and practical to evaluate each situation individually and find a solution that works for everyone involved. For many, I believe this includes creating a path to permanent legal status.

 

[doubtingmerle]

So if this exploitation happening to documented worker then it’s definitely happening to illegal immigrants. Probably on a larger scale. Yet you want illegals to stay in America because they’re good for the economy. That’s cold.

Uh, no — the point of the link was that people here on temporary work visas are being treated like slaves, with little compassion.

For many people who are here illegally, life improves when they obtain an ITIN number. Through that, they can work in the U.S. and pay taxes, even though they don’t receive many of the benefits that legal residents enjoy. One of the points raised in the link is that some people want to deport these undocumented workers — only to bring them back under temporary work programs that expose them to the same exploitative conditions described.

We are better than that.

If someone has demonstrated that they can live and work here in a way that is mutually beneficial, even if they are currently here illegally, then it makes sense to explore options that allow them to stay legally on a permanent basis.

 

[A2SG]

I fully think this is media driven

As someone who has worked as a journalist (my wife still does), I can tell you, from experience, it isn't.

Journalists report the news, they don't create it.

Commentators may, sometimes, take a more active role in interpreting events, however.

I am mostly talking about the left media.

Sure. Everyone has a bias, why should you be any different?

I haven’t seen the same amount of hate coming from the right.

Then you're just not paying attention.

Fox is the only major right wing news that I know of. CNN, NBC, MSNBC, etc are all left wing propagandists

Some more than others, perhaps. But you are missing more than a few other media outlets.

People watch that garbage every single day and get brain washed. I hear angry liberals just spew the talking points that the news just covered.

And I've seen it happen for those on the right, too. Often verbatim.

Most of the time the lies are easily refuted but it doesn’t matter, they only believe what is told to them on TV. It is literally dividing the country. I know people who still argue that Trump is going to take away their right to kill their own baby.

Well, to be fair, even Trump can't take away a right that doesn't exist.

Infanticide is still, and always has been, illegal.

Thats what they are worried about. Or that is is the end of democracy or Russia, Russia, Russia. Lies all day long. Period.

"They're eating the dogs!"

-- A2SG, to say nothing of all the unconstitutional actions various courts are trying to curtail....

 

[The_Mantis]

As someone who has worked as a journalist (my wife still does), I can tell you, from experience, it isn't.

Journalists report the news, they don't create it.

Commentators may, sometimes, take a more active role in interpreting events, however.


Sure. Everyone has a bias, why should you be any different?


Then you're just not paying attention.


Some more than others, perhaps. But you are missing more than a few other media outlets.


And I've seen it happen for those on the right, too. Often verbatim.


Well, to be fair, even Trump can't take away a right that doesn't exist.

Infanticide is still, and always has been, illegal.


"They're eating the dogs!"

-- A2SG, to say nothing of all the unconstitutional actions various courts are trying to curtail....

Um they were eating the dogs lol. I saw one dude walking with a dead cat and another kill a goose and take it home. One lady watched a guy kill her cat, take it home and bbq it. Was this just not reported on CNN?

 

[doubtingmerle]

I’m not convinced that working class America is as broadly consumed by hate as your post suggests. Those who voted for the candidate you reference aren’t driven by hatred but by practical concerns as you so aptly point out—economic survival, border security, or distrust of policies they see as harmful. Painting their frustrations as hate risks oversimplifying complex motivations and dismissing legitimate grievances.

That is a fair point. Yes, there are times when people have legitimate concerns about policies that they think harm their well-being. And yes, people have every right to vote for candidates that support positions that they think are best.

The opening post covers too much territory and discusses some issues that can be legitimately described as policy disputes rather than hatred.

However, I stand by the opening argument that there are many people facing hard times that are attempting to unfairly take it out on other people. In particular, people often take things out on these groups of people:

1. Immigrants
2. DEI beneficiaries
3. LGBTQ+ community
4. Other religions
5. Foreigners
6. Government workers

These people are often receiving hatred in various orders of magnitude, ranging from wariness to displeasure to coldness to intolerance to vindictiveness to disgust to malice to loathing. In the thread title, I lump this all together as "hatred."

That said, Scripture warns us to guard our hearts against bitterness and division (Heb. 12:15). Christians must speak truth in love (Eph. 4:15). The answer isn’t vilifying one side or another but examining our own hearts and actions in light of Christ’s example (Phil. 2:5).

Your list of allegedly “hated” groups assumes motives that may not universally apply, or may apply to none but a handful.

Yes, holy books warn about hatred.

And intellectuals have provided many convincing arguments that cooperation and love is better than hatred.

But not everybody listens to this advice.

For instance, concern about environmental policies often stems from economic trade-offs, not hatred of environmentalists.

That is a valid point, as I admitted earlier in this thread.

 

[A2SG]

Um they were eating the dogs lol. I saw one dude walking with a dead cat and another kill a goose and take it home. One lady watched a guy kill her cat, take it home and bbq it. Was this just not reported on CNN?

Thanks for an excellent example of what I was just talking about.

-- A2SG, always nice to have cooperation...

 

[The_Mantis]

Thanks for an excellent example of what I was just talking about.

-- A2SG, always nice to have cooperation...

What, that I saw something on TV that CNN wouldn’t report on?

 

[BCP1928]

Um they were eating the dogs lol. I saw one dude walking with a dead cat and another kill a goose and take it home. One lady watched a guy kill her cat, take it home and bbq it. Was this just not reported on CNN?

You saw it? You live in Springfield, Ohio?

 

[doubtingmerle]

As someone who has worked as a journalist (my wife still does), I can tell you, from experience, it isn't.

Journalists report the news, they don't create it.

I often hear arguments from the right accusing the media of bias.

Yes, every person has a bias. We all have to work to overcome that bias.

But I would argue that one can also have a bias for the truth. That happens all the time in science, for instance. Scientists may hold certain views, but the whole purpose of experimental design is to structure tests so that the truth can emerge, regardless of the experimenter's preferences. The methods aren’t perfect, but over time, a field driven by a shared commitment to accuracy tends to converge on the truth.

I see something similar in journalism. Mainstream media, by and large, has a bias toward being seen as the most reliable and accurate. There’s pressure to correct errors and report developments truthfully—not just to preserve integrity, but to maintain audience trust. With so many people involved, each motivated to uphold standards or to fact-check others, the result is a picture of the world that is imperfect but broadly grounded in reality.

I often hear the argument that, because both mainstream media and right-wing blogs have biases, the truth must lie somewhere in between. But to me, that assumes both sides are equally committed to truth-seeking, which they are not. I believe the mainstream media, overall, has stronger guardrails—like editorial review, corrections policies, and reputational consequences—that help bring it closer to the truth than partisan opinion sites.

With your experience in journalism, how do you respond to this line of reasoning?

 

[The_Mantis]

You saw it? You live in Springfield, Ohio?

Obviously not. I saw it all over the web. Mostly on YouTube from people who live there. It was all over news on TV but not CNN apparently. But it’s all lies? Because CNN said so?? Why are these people any kind of authority on information? They absolutely will not report or lie about things that go against their agenda. This is a great example. I’ll bet you didn’t see all the stuff I did. People were eating other peoples pets. It’s freaking so disgusting and disturbing and TRUE!!! Unless everything I saw is lies which I seriously doubt.

 

[BCP1928]

Obviously not. I saw it all over the web. Mostly on YouTube from people who live there. It was all over news on TV but not CNN apparently. But it’s all lies? Because CNN said so?? Why are these people any kind of authority on information? They absolutely will not report or lie about things that go against their agenda. This is a great example. I’ll bet you didn’t see all the stuff I did. People were eating other peoples pets. It’s freaking so disgusting and disturbing and TRUE!!! Unless everything I saw is lies which I seriously doubt.

How do you know it wasn't on CNN? But in any case, since you haven't any real evidence about the pet eating we can ignore it.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Obviously not. I saw it all over the web. Mostly on YouTube from people who live there. It was all over news on TV but not CNN apparently. But it’s all lies? Because CNN said so?? Why are these people any kind of authority on information? They absolutely will not report or lie about things that go against their agenda. This is a great example. I’ll bet you didn’t see all the stuff I did. People were eating other peoples pets. It’s freaking so disgusting and disturbing and TRUE!!! Unless everything I saw is lies which I seriously doubt.

What an odd planet you live on. Which planet did you say it was?

 

[The_Mantis]

How do you know it wasn't on CNN? But in any case, since you haven't any real evidence about the pet eating we can ignore it.

How do you know it wasn't on CNN? But in any case, since you haven't any real evidence about the pet eating we can ignore it.

Yeah this is what I’m talking about. I saw plenty of evidence. You did not. If it was on CNN you would say it was true. Anyway whatever.

 

[The_Mantis]

What an odd planet you live on. Which planet did you say it was?

Earth, good grief watch something besides CNN.

 

[Bradskii]

Isn't it against forum rules to feed a troll? It should be.

 

[BCP1928]

Yeah this is what I’m talking about. I saw plenty of evidence. You did not. If it was on CNN you would say it was true. Anyway whatever.

All you saw was YouTube videos and TV news you can't show us. Do you really think that is evidence we should take seriously? Why would I say it was true if I saw it on CNN?