Are Folks Making America Hate Again?

[RileyG]

Because you support a President who summarily deports people who are here legally.

Oh please! I didn’t like him that much to begin with, I only voted against the other option.

 

[stevil]

Of course not! Why on earth would anyone think that?

Dunno, I was asking you your position, not presuming to tell you what your position is.

Are you for or against the CHNV program

 

[RileyG]

Dunno, I was asking you your position, not presuming to tell you what your position is.

Are you for or against the CHNV program

Anyone who comes here legally has a right to be here. People have a right to choose where they want to live.

 

[Postvieww]

Because you support a President who summarily deports people who are here legally.

False!

 

[stevil]

Anyone who comes here legally has a right to be here. People have a right to choose where they want to live.

So are you for or against the government program CHNV program which was allowing people from a few countries to come to USA and be vetted and processed quicker than usual and gain legal entry to USA?

 

[RileyG]

So are you for or against the government program CHNV program which was allowing people from a few countries to come to USA and be vetted and processed quicker than usual and gain legal entry to USA?

I'm not entirely knowledgable about CHNV, but I say whatever is legal, and safe is ok? I honestly have no other comment, since I don't know anything about it. Yes, I'm 100% for immigration and people being here legally. That's their right. Period.

 

[stevil]

I'm not entirely knowledgable about CHNV, but I say whatever is legal, and safe is ok? I honestly have no other comment, since I don't know anything about it. Yes, I'm 100% for immigration and people being here legally. That's their right. Period.

cool

 

[RileyG]

cool

yeppers

 

[MrMoe]

No. But you only want men to be leaders. Although I'm assuming you'd be against a family member being rejected on that basis.

If they only wanted men then they wouldn’t have considered my wife or daughter for a promotion in the first place so there would be no need to reject them.

And why? Did you not continue to read?

'Laurie Rudman, a psychologist at Rutgers University, explains these preferences using the psychological concept of “system justification,” or the tendency for long-oppressed groups, struggling to make sense of an unfair world, internalize negative stereotypes. In the United States, as in many other countries, women don’t have the same status that men do. So when we ask ourselves whom we want to work for, we turn to the historical default choice: a man. Seeing few women leading organizations or managing people, we come to the faulty conclusion that female leadership is somehow an unnatural state of affairs.'

There are these amazing people called therapists that can help you deal with any internalised struggle you may have.

It's a system that is self perpetuating. It therefore needs an active process to change it.

What do you mean by the “system”? Everything you quoted is about an internal struggle. No “system” is holding women or minorities back form becoming CEOs or any other job position.

Saying that men should be leaders (because hey, it says so in the bible!)

The Bible clearly shows examples of women being leaders. I think you’ve misunderstood my position.

is an obstruction to the processes needed to change.

Which companies are being obstructed because of what the bible says?

 

[Bradskii]

If they only wanted men then they wouldn’t have considered my wife or daughter for a promotion in the first place so there would be no need to reject them.

They aren't looking for a specific gender. But as you said...

That (Christian) belief that men are the head would naturally transfer to leadership of the entire country.

So women are not to be considered for leadership positions.

There are these amazing people called therapists that can help you deal with any internalised struggle you may have.

Don't be trite. I'll repeat the crucial part of of the the link which you omitted:

'Seeing few women leading organizations or managing people, we come to the faulty conclusion that female leadership is somehow an unnatural state of affairs.'

It's a self perpetuating system. Do nothing to counteract it and it remains.

The Bible clearly shows examples of women being leaders. I think you’ve misunderstood my position.

You were quite clear. Again:

That (Christian) belief that men are the head would naturally transfer to leadership of the entire country.

 

[MrMoe]

There is no point in me telling you the answer. You really need to learn to think for yourself. Think things trough. Put yourself in other people's shoes, think about statistics, about demographics etc.

Okay, let’s see if you can give a straightforward answer to this.

If I said: “If barriers are broken down, and if a diverse range of nominees are considered then it is likely that this horrific picking of almost exclusively black men won't continue.” About the South Africa’s government, would you consider that a racist statement?

What about the work place or government, what does your ancient scriptures say about that?

The bible says nothing regarding women in the work place or government. It does mention queens.

I think math may not be a strong point here.
I'm talking about statistics over time. I would expect overtime that outcomes would like match society demographics, if the are vastly different then that should ring alarm bells and people should be looking into the reasons why. And look to address the issues and impediments that are getting in the way of certain demographics succeeding.

This isn’t about math or time. It’s the fact that men and women are different and desire different things. This has been demonstrated by scientific studies. That is why it’s very unlikely you’re going to see most jobs match society demographics.

Im sure there are many White Christian nationalists that don't have any problem with almost all presidents being white male, and almost all SCOTUS being white male and almost all CEOs and Executives and people in hiring positions being white male.
Great if you are a white male.

How do you know there are many?
White Christian nationalists aren’t a monolith and they’re not all racists like you are implying they are.

You seem to have a barely hidden disdain for white men.

But not put off by a male saying he would grab woman by their privates, being found liable for sexual assault (in common speak - rape), being found guilty of 34 counts of fraud, inciting an insurrection, putting pressure on his VP to throw away public votes due to an illegal alternate electors scheme, firing his AG because his AG refused to claim widespread voter fraud without any evidence....

Now you’re just gaslighting. Many Americans were put off by Trump’s comments, including those that voted for him.

He was never found guilty of inciting an insurrection.

If Americans were voting for a saint, all that you listed might hold water. But they weren’t. They were voting for who they thought best to lead the country.

But SHE has a laugh some people don't like.

You know it was more than just her laugh.

It was also:
The fact she couldn’t give a straightforward answer to save her life.
Instead we got word salads galore.

Didn’t differentiate from Joe Biden.

Focused on anti-Trump rhetoric over policy vision.

Avoided a proper sit down interview with the media until nearly a month of replacing Biden.

Played dumb over Biden’s mental decline.

Painfully cringy and patronising changing of her accent depending on the crowd she was speaking to.

Harris exuded weakness. And not because she is a woman (Tulsi Gabbard doesn’t have this problem).

This “It’s because she’s a woman!” “It’s because she’s black!” Persecution complex, just like Biden, is getting old and tired.

 

[MrMoe]

Suppose a woman was President and her husband told her to make a decision on national security that was radically different from what she wanted. In your view, would she be required to do what her husband told her to do?

No.

 

[MrMoe]

Without mercy? How many people get fined for going just 1 mph over the speed limit?

When the letter of the law demands too much in a situation, officers often show mercy.

Likewise, if your reason for deporting undocumented workers is simply "because the letter of the law allows it," is that really the best guiding principle in every situation?

If a person is a productive member of society, doing needed work and supporting their family, wouldn't a solution that allows for mercy possibly be better in such a case?

Going 1 mph over the speed limit is not comparable to breaking into the country. Obviously breaking into the country is much worse.

Deporting them to another country that will accept them is a mercy. They can restart their lives there and try to re-enter America legally if they desire.

 

[MrMoe]

They aren't looking for a specific gender. But as you said...

Moving the goalposts I see. You said they were only looking for men. Men are a specific gender.

So women are not to be considered for leadership positions.

The bible only mentions men being the leaders of the church and the home. It is silent on other positions of leadership. To some Christians in some denominations that belief that men should be the leaders of the church and home would naturally transfer to leadership of the country since the country could be viewed as a home too. But the bible makes no definitive statement on the matter.

Don't be trite. I'll repeat the crucial part of of the the link which you omitted:

'Seeing few women leading organizations or managing people, we come to the faulty conclusion that female leadership is somehow an unnatural state of affairs.'

It's a self perpetuating system. Do nothing to counteract it and it remains.

Who came up with this faulty conclusion? How do you fix a faulty conclusion?

My suggestion: See a therapist.

You were quite clear. Again:

See second comment above.

 

[stevil]

Okay, let’s see if you can give a straightforward answer to this.

If I said: “If barriers are broken down, and if a diverse range of nominees are considered then it is likely that this horrific picking of almost exclusively black men won't continue.” About the South Africa’s government, would you consider that a racist statement?

That's not an answer, that's a question.
I don't understand your analogy.
Most countries in the world have had a very poor showing of Women heads of state. That needs to change, and we are seeing some countries with women leaders, which is great to see.

Most countries have almost exclusively a person, generally a male of the dominant race as the head of state, and that is pretty horrific.
Many countries have the cabinet ministers over proportionally of the dominant race and that is a huge problem.
It's not just USA. But USA have never had a female head of state. Trump has been up against two women and one man. The women lost, the man won.
There was nothing wrong with those women, and nothing special with that man. They all represented pretty much the same policies, the same party etc.

The bible says nothing regarding women in the work place or government. It does mention queens.

Well there you go, there is nothing in Christianity to be worried about having women heads of state.

This isn’t about math or time. It’s the fact that men and women are different and desire different things.

Both Hilary and Kamala wanted to be president of USA.

This has been demonstrated by scientific studies. That is why it’s very unlikely you’re going to see most jobs match society demographics.

Nah, the problem is that there is systemic racism and also systemic gender bias too.

How do you know there are many?
White Christian nationalists aren’t a monolith and they’re not all racists like you are implying they are.

How many Christian nationists are saying that it is a problem that there are too many white male presidents?

You seem to have a barely hidden disdain for white men.

No, I have no inherent issue with white men.

Now you’re just gaslighting. Many Americans were put off by Trump’s comments, including those that voted for him.

And yet, they complain that Kamala has a cackle and overlook the many many many issues of D Trump.

He was never found guilty of inciting an insurrection.

OK. Yes, the court case went very very slowly and then got canned once he became president again.

If Americans were voting for a saint, all that you listed might hold water. But they weren’t. They were voting for who they thought best to lead the country.

Are you guys voting for the person with the best laugh?

You know it was more than just her laugh.

It was also:
The fact she couldn’t give a straightforward answer to save her life.

Trump is even worse than her on this

Instead we got word salads galore.

That sounds like Trump.

Didn’t differentiate from Joe Biden.

Joe Biden won, she didn't. If they are the same, then why did he win and she didn't

Focused on anti-Trump rhetoric over policy vision.

Trump didn't focus on policy either.

Avoided a proper sit down interview with the media until nearly a month of replacing Biden.

Irrelevant

Played dumb over Biden’s mental decline.

Has a doctor's report come out?

Painfully cringy and patronising changing of her accent depending on the crowd she was speaking to.

Irrelevant

Harris exuded weakness. And not because she is a woman (Tulsi Gabbard doesn’t have this problem).

Trump is the weakest person I have ever seen. Always whinging and complaining, groaning and moaning. Always offended by everything, such a thin skinned weakling.

This “It’s because she’s a woman!” “It’s because she’s black!” Persecution complex, just like Biden, is getting old and tired.

 

[Bradskii]

Moving the goalposts I see. You said they were only looking for men.

No, I did not. I said 'Would you think it reasonable that your wife or daughter should be passed over for a promotion simply because they are female?'

The bible only mentions men being the leaders of the church and the home. It is silent on other positions of leadership. To some Christians in some denominations that belief that men should be the leaders of the church and home would naturally transfer to leadership of the country since the country could be viewed as a home too.

So you're all for equality of opportunity for women to be leaders. Except in the home. And the church. And the country. Gee, they'll be so pleased to hear that. But how about CEOs or heads of government departments. They could run them? But of course, they have to be home early to do the cleaning and make the dinner.

Who came up with this faulty conclusion? How do you fix a faulty conclusion?

You fix it by making sure that people know that just because there aren't many women in senior positions, it's the result of a gender bias and nothing to do with ability. And where does this bias originate? Well, some people express the view that women should be subservient to men in the home and that has a negative effect on women's confidence that they can be leaders outside the home.

Can you imagine a woman deferring to her husband in regard to everything concerning the home and then considering applying for a job where her husband will have to defer to her? Well, maybe you can't...

 

[doubtingmerle]

No.

This in response to, " Suppose a woman was President and her husband told her to make a decision on national security that was radically different from what she wanted. In your view, would she be required to do what her husband told her to do?"

Ah, so the Bible has it wrong when it says women are to be submissive to their husbands? (e.g. Ephesians 5:22-24)

 

[doubtingmerle]

Going 1 mph over the speed limit is not comparable to breaking into the country. Obviously breaking into the country is much worse.

But again, if the undocumented worker is being a good member of society, supports his family, and does a good job as a worker, who then is being hurt? OK, so he didn't follow the law when he overstayed his visa or drove 1 mph over the speed limit. Saying we must, must, give the full punishment allowed by the law without mercy does not seem right to me.

And I suppose you will quickly, quickly, turn from the argument, "We must, must do it because the letter of the law says so," to some sort of argument that the undocumented worker is doing harm here. But what harm is he doing?

And if you argue they are harming us by taking our jobs, you could also argue that legal immigrants are taking our jobs. And you could argue that teenage workers are taking our jobs. Or short people are taking our jobs. Or fill in the blank: "_____ are taking our jobs: therefore, deport _____." Someday, somebody might fill in that blank with "MrMoe". Once we start deporting people simply because we want their jobs, where does it stop?

Deporting them to another country that will accept them is a mercy. They can restart their lives there and try to re-enter America legally if they desire.

And what about those who don't have a country that will accept them?

 

[doubtingmerle]

The bible only mentions men being the leaders of the church and the home. It is silent on other positions of leadership. To some Christians in some denominations that belief that men should be the leaders of the church and home would naturally transfer to leadership of the country since the country could be viewed as a home too. But the bible makes no definitive statement on the matter.

Got it. So, the moment your wife walks out of the house into the garden, she can do anything she wants? She no longer needs to submit to you?

And the moment you get into the car? And the moment you go into a store? And when you go camping? Does a tent temporarily count as a "home" in your denomination? Or is she outside the home at that point, and free to ignore you?

What if your wife was President and the two of you were woken up in the middle of the night with a national emergency? In your view, would she be required to do anything you said? Would you, in effect, have control of the "football"? Would she need to step out of the living quarters (or outside the White House) to make a presidential decision on her own?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Are you guys voting for the person with the best laugh?

Then, the guy in the middle here wins.

https://sora.chatgpt.com/g/gen_01jrp32vx1enmra0fs868sjtb8

(fake video from ChatGPT Sora)