Pro-Palestinian supporters at Columbia University confront Jews ‘to push them out of camp’

[rjs330]

! Little help please;

How is it possible to be critical of the idf and thr Israeli government and NOT be listening to propaganda, in your mind?

There is a world of difference between a country trying to survive and and trying to do the right things for its citizens while under constant assault and threat,

And a group of people who continuously not just threaten your lives and existence but carry out those threats with murder, rape and kidnapping of civilians in the some of the most horrific ways. Agroup that is completely corrupt and evil.

Isreal has done nothing to deserve that. No country is perfect. Including yours. I wonder how your country would respond if your indigenous people started launching rockets into your town and cities, sent suicide bombers onto your public transportation, raped and murdered your children and wives kidnapped your mothers, children, and elderly and held them hostage. Built tunnels under their land, loaded them with weapons to use against you. And you had to build safe rooms in your house to protect yourself.

We all criticize our countries and each others countries. But there is a huge difference between a constant criticism of a country that is trying to keep their citizens safe and failing to recognize why.

I see a constant barrage of articles and complaints against the jews and almost nothing said against the evil and wickedness of rhe Gazans. All we hear from the left is we have to understand why they are so evil.

And then listen to people defend the evil.

There were marches and protests against Isreal immediately after Oct 7 and Isreal hadn't even responded yet. It was disgusting. Israel hasn't done anything to deserve this kind of hatred.

 

[BCP1928]

There is a world of difference between a country trying to survive and and trying to do the right things for its citizens while under constant assault and threat,

And a group of people who continuously not just threaten your lives and existence but carry out those threats with murder, rape and kidnapping of civilians in the some of the most horrific ways. Agroup that is completely corrupt and evil.

Isreal has done nothing to deserve that. No country is perfect. Including yours. I wonder how your country would respond if your indigenous people started launching rockets into your town and cities, sent suicide bombers onto your public transportation, raped and murdered your children and wives kidnapped your mothers, children, and elderly and held them hostage. Built tunnels under their land, loaded them with weapons to use against you. And you had to build safe rooms in your house to protect yourself.

We all criticize our countries and each others countries. But there is a huge difference between a constant criticism of a country that is trying to keep their citizens safe and failing to recognize why.

I see a constant barrage of articles and complaints against the jews and almost nothing said against the evil and wickedness of rhe Gazans. All we hear from the left is we have to understand why they are so evil.

And then listen to people defend the evil.

There were marches and protests against Isreal immediately after Oct 7 and Isreal hadn't even responded yet. It was disgusting. Israel hasn't done anything to deserve this kind of hatred.

It's rather like the Russia-Ukraine thing. Russia is merely trying to regain sovereignty of a country it thinks it has a right to. It has done absolutely nothing to deserve the kind of hatred and violence dished out by the Ukrainians.

 

[rjs330]

Long, long before and somebody else's before that. And after.

Exactly. They have as much right to that land as anyone. It did not belong to the Palestinians. They never had a nation there.

 

[rjs330]

It's rather like the Russia-Ukraine thing. Russia is merely trying to regain sovereignty of a country it thinks it has a right to. It has done absolutely nothing to deserve the kind of hatred and violence dished out by the Ukrainians.

Not at all. Ukraine has a country. Russia invaded a sovereign nation. They may feel or project that part of Ukraine belongs to them, but Ukraine is a country. Russia was completely wrong to invade a sovereign country.

What nation did Israel invade?

 

[BCP1928]

Exactly. They have as much right to that land as anyone. It did not belong to the Palestinians. They never had a nation there.

For centuries it belonged to the Ottoman Empire. The Jews, Muslims and Christians who lived their were subjects of the Ottomans. Now it belongs to the government of Israel by right of conquest (although not all other nations have recognized it) and has the same right to exist as any other nation established by conquest.

Not at all. Ukraine has a country. Russia invaded a sovereign nation. They may feel or project that part of Ukraine belongs to them, but Ukraine is a country. Russia was completely wrong to invade a sovereign country.

What nation did Israel invade?

The Ottoman Empire. At least, the Brits did it for them.

 

[essentialsaltes]

What nation did Israel invade?

Egypt and Jordan.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Egypt and Jordan.

and Syria and Lebanon.

 

[civilwarbuff]

It's rather like the Russia-Ukraine thing. Russia is merely trying to regain sovereignty of a country it thinks it has a right to. It has done absolutely nothing to deserve the kind of hatred and violence dished out by the Ukrainians.

Spoken like a True Communist. Well done, Comrade.

 

[civilwarbuff]

For centuries it belonged to the Ottoman Empire. The Jews, Muslims and Christians who lived their were subjects of the Ottomans. Now it belongs to the government of Israel by right of conquest (although not all other nations have recognized it) and has the same right to exist as any other nation established by conquest.

The Ottoman Empire. At least, the Brits did it for them.

Uhh, history probably wasn't your best subject in school, was it?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Egypt and Jordan.

After being provoked.....

Six-Day War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[BCP1928]

Uhh, history probably wasn't your best subject in school, was it?

You mean it wasn't part of the Ottoman Empire? Or is it that General Allenby is not a real historical figure? Oh, tell me where I went wrong.

 

[essentialsaltes]

After being provoked.....

...but not attacked.

 

[rjs330]

For centuries it belonged to the Ottoman Empire. The Jews, Muslims and Christians who lived their were subjects of the Ottomans. Now it belongs to the government of Israel by right of conquest (although not all other nations have recognized it) and has the same right to exist as any other nation established by conquest.

The land was given to them by the Brits. Israel decided to take them up on the offer. Sincer there was no nation to conquer they conquered no one. They just accepted the offer and took the land that belonged to no nation for themselves.

And since they are a nation it belongs to them. Just like Ukraine belongs to the Ukranians and Canada belongs to the Canadians.

 

[rjs330]

Egypt and Jordan.

I didn't know their nation belonged to Egypt and Jordan or Lebenon or Syria before they had it. I don't beli3ve those countries had it in the 1900s when Ottomans had it and gave it to the Brits. You all must be off a bit.

 

[essentialsaltes]

The land was given to them by the Brits.

It wasn't. The Brits left, and no plan was ratified for the disposition of the land.

Sincer there was no nation to conquer they conquered no one.

On that basis [finders takers keepers] Israel absolutely invaded Egypt and Jordan in Gaza and the West Bank. (and also obviously Syria and Lebanon, where there's no dispute or ambiguity at all)

 

[Hans Blaster]

The land was given to them by the Brits. Israel decided to take them up on the offer. Sincer there was no nation to conquer they conquered no one. They just accepted the offer and took the land that belonged to no nation for themselves.

And since they are a nation it belongs to them. Just like Ukraine belongs to the Ukranians and Canada belongs to the Canadians.

Nation or not, who were the private landowners in ~1920 when the British obtained sovereignty over the land and what about in 1947?

 

[BCP1928]

The land was given to them by the Brits. Israel decided to take them up on the offer. Sincer there was no nation to conquer they conquered no one. They just accepted the offer and took the land that belonged to no nation for themselves.

Ah, the good old Christian doctrine of Terra Nullius.

And since they are a nation it belongs to them. Just like Ukraine belongs to the Ukranians and Canada belongs to the Canadians.

It belongs to all the citizens, Jewish, Christian Muslim, Druze...It is a secular state and doesn't "belong to the Jews"

 

[Hans Blaster]

Ah, the good old Christian doctrine of Terra Nullius.

Perhaps it is appropriate that yesterday on the "On this day" entry on the wikipedia front page was the anniversery of the time that Pope Borgia set the line between what is Portugal's and what is Spain's.

It belongs to all the citizens, Jewish, Christian Muslim, Druze...It is a secular state and doesn't "belong to the Jews"

 

[rjs330]

It wasn't. The Brits left, and no plan was ratified for the disposition of the land.

I honestly didn't think we needed to go over history again.

On that basis [finders takers keepers] Israel absolutely invaded Egypt and Jordan in Gaza and the West Bank. (and also obviously Syria and Lebanon, where there's no dispute or ambiguity at all)

What nation did they conquer again to get nation of Israel? Last I knew Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan still existed after they nation of Israel was formed and they didn't have the land.

 

[rjs330]

Nation or not, who were the private landowners in ~1920 when the British obtained sovereignty over the land and what about in 1947?

Nobody is required to adhere to laws of a previously failed state.