Free Traders Case For Tariffs

[wing2000]

And as of May 3rd, " 25 percent tariffs on imported auto parts on Saturday that could sharply raise prices for new and used vehicles as well as for repairs and insurance."

Americans who are holding on to older cars will now be faced with higher costs to maintain them....

 

[Hans Blaster]

Thank you for your insight, ie., "They have stuff and we buy stuff". I think the rube in this discussion is not the administration.

Bring manufacturing stuff back to the US. Investment in plant and equipment first, training employees simultaneously. Tax those higher paying jobs at the current tax rates to reduce the the ongoing unsustainable federal deficits. How's that for a starter?

Where is such a plan from Congress or the President?

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

What specific imported cars do we need? What specific electronics do we need? That the US has been taken advantage of by our international competitors (and adversaries) is exactly why the administration is moving to balance trade deficits.

Precisely the problem being addressed by the administration's trade policy to bring back those higher paying jobs to the US. Or do you want to just keep the hamburger flipper jobs?

Your argument contains contradictions.

The U.S. cannot balance the trade deficit and simultaneously bring jobs back to America. Balancing the trade deficit requires opening our market to foreign countries, allowing them to sell products here while they reciprocate. However, "Made in America" products are often more expensive than those from developing nations, which means their consumers won’t buy American products if cheaper alternatives exist. Thus, pursuing free trade and balancing the trade deficit does not lead to job creation in America.

But this is exactly what Trump administration keep claiming that imposing tariffs on foreign goods will boost US manufacturing jobs. However, Administration simultaneously seek trade deals to reduce tariffs and balance trade deficit, which is contradictory.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

You missed the boat. If only it were that simple. The truth is there are all kinds of tariffs and taxes on U.S. goods plus price manipulation by foreign countries. The trade deals that are being negotiated will only be agreed upon if the deals are FAIR TO BOTH SIDES.

You can make all the fair deals, the trade deficit between Bangladesh and the USA won't decrease. 90% of Bangladeshis live on less than $3 a day, so making US products free of import tax wouldn't change their purchasing power.

A similar situation exists in Vietnam, India, Cambodia, and most developing nations. Putting ZERO import tax on US product would not change trade deficit.

The US may only see a trade deficit reduction with the European Union, Japan, and South Korea.

 

[o_mlly]

The result, so far, has been to kill our exports overseas. Canada is a great example, where people are intentionally refusing to buy products from the US. There are also those businesses that used to manufacture products in the US and are closing down their plants here, since many of the customers were overseas and, due to the tariffs, they can't sell the US made products overseas anymore. Instead, they are starting to move their factories outside the US, so they can keep their businesses going. And this doesn't include businesses like Target and Walmart, who told Pres. Trump that their shelves will be empty because they are losing the Chinese suppliers for their goods.

Can you support your claims with citations from reputable source?

 

[DaisyDay]

You missed the boat. If only it were that simple. The truth is there are all kinds of tariffs and taxes on U.S. goods plus price manipulation by foreign countries. The trade deals that are being negotiated will only be agreed upon if the deals are FAIR TO BOTH SIDES.

Penguins. What is a fair tariff on an island of penguins?

 

[o_mlly]

Nearly 80 percent of cars priced at less than $30,000 will be subject to 25 percent tariffs, including popular vehicles like the Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla and Chevrolet Trax, according to Cox Automotive.

As I have mentioned in this and other threads, it's all about jobs, always has been, and likely will always be.

Countries use tariffs to export their country's high-paying-jobs-unemployment problem to another.

New Auto Tariffs Are Now in Place, Driving the Industry into Uncharted Territory - Cox Automotive Inc.

It’s on! As our Chief Economist Jonathan Smoke feared, the “unthinkable” has happened. New automotive-specific tariffs of 25% on all imported vehicles are now in place. Finished automobiles are no longer flowing freely across North America, and key automotive free trade agreements have been...

www.coxautoinc.com

April 4, 2025

As our team has noted before, tariffs can be effective tools to level international playing fields and grow domestic manufacturing. How they are implemented, however, matters. The size and structure of the global auto industry make rapid change difficult at best – factories take time to build, supply chains years to create, and workforces cannot be developed overnight. In the auto industry, sudden changes usually produce only one result: Chaos.​

There’s no such thing as a fully American-made car

Trump indicated consumers could avoid tariffs by buying vehicles built entirely in the U.S., but industry experts say there’s not a single one with all-domestic parts and assembly.

www.nbcnews.com

“If you make your car in the United States, you’re going to make a lot of money,” he told NBC News in an interview Saturday. “If you don’t, you’re going to have to probably come to the United States, because if you make your car in the United States, there is no tariff.”

As to the actual tariff applied, the administration listened to automotive experts.

Fact Sheet: President Donald J. Trump Incentivizes Domestic Automobile Production

INCENTIVIZING DOMESTIC AUTO PRODUCTION: Today, President Donald J. Trump signed a proclamation to protect national security by incentivizing domestic

www.whitehouse.gov

April 29, 2025
It offers an offset to a portion of tariffs for automobile parts used in U.S.-assembled vehicles equal to 3.75% of the Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) of a manufacturer’s U.S. production for the next year (April 3, 2025 to April 30, 2026), and 2.5% of U.S. production the year after (May 1, 2026 to April 30, 2027).

• These percentages reflect the duty that would be owed when a 25% duty is applied to 15% of the value of a U.S.-assembled automobile in the first year, and to 10% of the value of a U.S.-assembled automobile in the second year.
• All other automobile imports will still be subject to the 25% tariff.
• For instance, if a manufacturer builds a car in the U.S. that has 85% U.S. or USMCA content, the manufacturer effectively will not owe tariffs on that vehicle’s production for the first year.
• If a manufacturer builds a car in the U.S. that is 50% U.S. or USMCA content and 50% imported from elsewhere, then instead of paying the tariff on the full 50% of the imported car parts, the manufacturer effectively only pays on 35% for the first year.

 

[o_mlly]

Where is such a plan from Congress or the President?

The President.

 

[Hans Blaster]

The President.

Not who, where. "The president" is not a location, nor a plan.

 

[o_mlly]

The U.S. cannot balance the trade deficit and simultaneously bring jobs back to America. Balancing the trade deficit requires opening our market to foreign countries, allowing them to sell products here while they reciprocate.

No. Balancing a trade deficit requires an increase in exports and/or a decrease in imports. The tariffs applied to unfair trading partners will do exactly that.

However, "Made in America" products are often more expensive than those from developing nations, which means their consumers won’t buy American products if cheaper alternatives exist.

We will not solve our trade deficit by tariffing the goods of developing nations. We will solve it by tariffing developed countries who trade unfairly with the US.

As to cheaper alternatives, do you not think China's use of slave labor to offer cheaper alternatives immoral? Or developing countries using children often in unsafe working environments to offer cheaper alternatives immoral?

 

[o_mlly]

Not who, where. "The president" is not a location, nor a plan.

Then you should have asked that as your question.

Where is such a plan from Congress or the President?​

Care to rephrase?

 

[Hans Blaster]

Then you should have asked that as your question.

Care to rephrase?

Where is such a plan (an industrial plan) from the President or Congress?

That is the correct phrasing since I wanted you to point to the industrial plan created by either, for example in a link or planned legislation.

 

[o_mlly]

Where is such a plan (an industrial plan) from the President or Congress?

Asked and answered.

You might be better informed if you looked up what an industrial plan does.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Thank you for your insight, ie., "They have stuff and we buy stuff". I think the rube in this discussion is not the administration.

Bring manufacturing stuff back to the US. Investment in plant and equipment first, training employees simultaneously. Tax those higher paying jobs at the current tax rates to reduce the the ongoing unsustainable federal deficits. How's that for a starter?

Provide a link to President Trump's industrial policy document. It could be from his campaign, or the White House.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

No. Balancing a trade deficit requires an increase in exports and/or a decrease in imports. The tariffs applied to unfair trading partners will do exactly that.

We will not solve our trade deficit by tariffing the goods of developing nations. We will solve it by tariffing developed countries who trade unfairly with the US.

As to cheaper alternatives, do you not think China's use of slave labor to offer cheaper alternatives immoral? Or developing countries using children often in unsafe working environments to offer cheaper alternatives immoral?

If you agree that increasing exports to developing nations is not feasible, then why is the administration imposing tariffs on all countries? What is the rationale behind imposing a 25% tariff on Vietnam or Bangladesh?

China's use of forced labor and developing nations' use of child labor are serious issues. However, the United States imposing a 145% tariff on Chinese products will not make any difference.

What is the objective of this administration: balancing the trade deficit or bringing jobs back to the US?

 

[7thKeeper]

Penguins. What is a fair tariff on an island of penguins?

No, this tariff I agree with. It was actually brilliant. It turns out that the Legion of Doom, at behest of Lex Luthor, had hidden their resources on the island to avoid being taxed or tariffed. But now their plan is foiled! Don't believe me? Just listen to the man himself, you can find him confessing in a SolidJJs video. Decided to remove it due to language, even if warned about it.

 

[o_mlly]

Provide a link to President Trump's industrial policy document. It could be from his campaign, or the White House.

HIs EO's suffice to indicate his industrial policy. Exactly what he campaigned on doing and duly elected to do.

EO 14289: Addressing Certain Tariffs on Imported Articles

Signed: April 29, 2025 Published: May 2, 2025 FR Citation: 90 FR 18907 FR Doc. Number: 2025-07835 PDF 3 pages ​

See: Proc. 9704, March 8, 2018; Proc. 9705, March 8, 2018; Proc. 9980, January 24, 2020; EO 14193, February 1, 2025; EO 14194, February 1, 2025; EO 14197, February 3, 2025; EO 14198, February 3, 2025; Proc. 10895, February 10, 2025; Proc. 10896, February 10, 2025; EO 14226, March 2, 2025; EO 14227, March 2, 2025; March 2, 2025; EO 14231, March 6, 2025; EO 14232, March 6, 2025; Proc. 10908, March 26, 2025​

As to Congress, as always, the legislative process is slow but making progress through the appropriate committees.

Made in the USA: Igniting the Industrial Renaissance of the United States - United States House Committee on Oversight and Accountability

United States House Committee on Oversight and Accountability

oversight.house.gov

 

[o_mlly]

If you agree that increasing exports to developing nations is not feasible, then why is the administration imposing tariffs on all countries? What is the rationale behind imposing a 25% tariff on Vietnam or Bangladesh?

The tariffs are not imposed on all countries.

Executive Order 14257 lists that the reciprocal tariffs apply to those countries whose "Trade Practices ... Contribute to Large and Persistent Annual United States Goods Trade Deficits." Vietnam is in that category.

As to Bangladesh, I did not find any specific EO's regarding tariffs. Perhaps you could share?

 

[Hans Blaster]

HIs EO's suffice to indicate his industrial policy. Exactly what he campaigned on doing and duly elected to do.

EO 14289: Addressing Certain Tariffs on Imported Articles​

Signed: April 29, 2025 Published: May 2, 2025 FR Citation: 90 FR 18907 FR Doc. Number: 2025-07835 PDF 3 pages ​

See: Proc. 9704, March 8, 2018; Proc. 9705, March 8, 2018; Proc. 9980, January 24, 2020; EO 14193, February 1, 2025; EO 14194, February 1, 2025; EO 14197, February 3, 2025; EO 14198, February 3, 2025; Proc. 10895, February 10, 2025; Proc. 10896, February 10, 2025; EO 14226, March 2, 2025; EO 14227, March 2, 2025; March 2, 2025; EO 14231, March 6, 2025; EO 14232, March 6, 2025; Proc. 10908, March 26, 2025​

That is tariff policy, not industrial policy.

As to Congress, as always, the legislative process is slow but making progress through the appropriate committees.

Made in the USA: Igniting the Industrial Renaissance of the United States - United States House Committee on Oversight and Accountability

United States House Committee on Oversight and Accountability

oversight.house.gov

Do you have a summary? No one is going to watch a multi-hour hearing that may not have anything connection to reality.

 

[wing2000]

As I have mentioned in this and other threads, it's all about jobs, always has been, and likely will always be.

Countries use tariffs to export their country's high-paying-jobs-unemployment problem to another.

New Auto Tariffs Are Now in Place, Driving the Industry into Uncharted Territory - Cox Automotive Inc.

It’s on! As our Chief Economist Jonathan Smoke feared, the “unthinkable” has happened. New automotive-specific tariffs of 25% on all imported vehicles are now in place. Finished automobiles are no longer flowing freely across North America, and key automotive free trade agreements have been...

www.coxautoinc.com

April 4, 2025

As our team has noted before, tariffs can be effective tools to level international playing fields and grow domestic manufacturing. How they are implemented, however, matters. The size and structure of the global auto industry make rapid change difficult at best – factories take time to build, supply chains years to create, and workforces cannot be developed overnight. In the auto industry, sudden changes usually produce only one result: Chaos.​

There’s no such thing as a fully American-made car

Trump indicated consumers could avoid tariffs by buying vehicles built entirely in the U.S., but industry experts say there’s not a single one with all-domestic parts and assembly.

www.nbcnews.com

“If you make your car in the United States, you’re going to make a lot of money,” he told NBC News in an interview Saturday. “If you don’t, you’re going to have to probably come to the United States, because if you make your car in the United States, there is no tariff.”

As to the actual tariff applied, the administration listened to automotive experts.

Fact Sheet: President Donald J. Trump Incentivizes Domestic Automobile Production

INCENTIVIZING DOMESTIC AUTO PRODUCTION: Today, President Donald J. Trump signed a proclamation to protect national security by incentivizing domestic

www.whitehouse.gov

April 29, 2025
It offers an offset to a portion of tariffs for automobile parts used in U.S.-assembled vehicles equal to 3.75% of the Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) of a manufacturer’s U.S. production for the next year (April 3, 2025 to April 30, 2026), and 2.5% of U.S. production the year after (May 1, 2026 to April 30, 2027).

• These percentages reflect the duty that would be owed when a 25% duty is applied to 15% of the value of a U.S.-assembled automobile in the first year, and to 10% of the value of a U.S.-assembled automobile in the second year.
• All other automobile imports will still be subject to the 25% tariff.
• For instance, if a manufacturer builds a car in the U.S. that has 85% U.S. or USMCA content, the manufacturer effectively will not owe tariffs on that vehicle’s production for the first year.
• If a manufacturer builds a car in the U.S. that is 50% U.S. or USMCA content and 50% imported from elsewhere, then instead of paying the tariff on the full 50% of the imported car parts, the manufacturer effectively only pays on 35% for the first year.

None of which addresses the the affordability of cars. There's a reason the affordable cars are not assembled in the US.


Nearly 80 percent of cars priced at less than $30,000 will be subject to 25 percent tariffs,