Are Folks Making America Hate Again?

[Oompa Loompa]

Was there any?

Yes. I said, "Not all federal workers are deep state sabatures and political activists working behind the scenes to undermine the president, but they do exist and they need to go."

Do you deny that federal workers are not all political activists trying to undermine the president, or that they don't exist at all?

 

[BCP1928]

Yes. I said, "Not all federal workers are deep state sabatures and political activists working behind the scenes to undermine the president, but they do exist and they need to go."

Do you deny that federal workers are not all political activists trying to undermine the president, or that they don't exist at all?

I would imagine that if all federal workers take their oath to the Constitution seriously then indeed, by MAGA standards they are all deep state "sabatures" and political activists.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

I would imagine that if all federal workers take their oath to the Constitution seriously then indeed, by MAGA standards they are all deep state "sabatures" and political activists.

You can "imagine if" all you want, but you do realize all I have to do is provide one single example of a federal employee who was convicted of a crime that violated their oath to the constitution to prove that what I said was true.

 

[BCP1928]

You can "imagine if" all you want, but you do realize all I have to do is provide one single example of a federal employee who was convicted of a crime that violated their oath to the constitution to prove that what I said was true.

In a way, you are right. If any federal employee was convicted by this administration of violating his oath, that would be proof that there is at least one federal employee who is not a saboteur or political activist.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

In a way, you are right. If any federal employee was convicted by this administration of violating his oath, that would be proof that there is at least one federal employee who is not a saboteur or political activist.

Thankfully, as a government employee, it really doesn't matter who the president is, they tell me to kill people, people get killed.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

In a way, you are right. If any federal employee was convicted by this administration of violating his oath, that would be proof that there is at least one federal employee who is not a saboteur or political activist.

Okay? Let's try this again more simply. I stated, "Not all federal workers are deep state sabatures and political activists working behind the scenes to undermine the president, but they do exist and they need to go." You questioned if anything in that statement was true. Care to explain what part of what I said is not true or not agree with?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Equal outcomes regardless of effort based on race is racist.

Understood. But that is not what DEI is all about.

DEI is about understanding that there is often inherent racial prejudice in America. Because of this, some people are often not given a fair opportunity in hiring. DEI asks people to consider this fact and then compensate if needed, thus acting such that the end result is closer to being fair. But we can never, of course, be totally fair. We do what we can.

You were told this in the opening post. You simply ignored it and posted your talking point, which is actually a straw man of DEI.

Now that I told you twice, will you ignore it again and post the same straw man again?

Telling people they are inherently racist because of thr color of their skin is racist.

That is certainly not what DEI is all about. The problem is the actions, not the color of the skin of the person doing it.

And there are also greedy people who use fraud to steal of the government welfare system.

Understood. That is why congress appointed independent inspector generals to oversee government and look for fraud, waste and abuse. These people can only be fired only for cause after 30 days written notice, with congress being able to overrule it. But Trump promptly fired 17 of them illegally.

Since you are against fraud, waste and abuse, then you must agree with me that it was wrong for Trump to fire these auditor generals, yes?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Yes. I said, "Not all federal workers are deep state sabatures and political activists working behind the scenes to undermine the president, but they do exist and they need to go."

Uh, huh, and you said that in response to, "There has been a vast backlash against the many career government workers who dedicate their lives in civil service. They are degraded as 'the Deep State.' They have faced massive layoffs. But don’t forget, at its core, government is good."

My point was that there is a massive backlash of hatred against people doing their jobs in government. You find one word to key off of to post your standard talking point, and you ignored the point I was making.

Regarding the so-called Deep State, civil servants' primary duty is to the constitution and the laws that established their function, as well as to the President. They are career employees that cannot be fired at will. They can be fired for cause. Generally direct insubordination to the president and his cabinet would be just cause, so no, there is not a massive group of people who act repeatedly for years in direct insubordination to their chain of command in government.

 

[Lukaris]

I wonder if not having undocumented non citizens in a work place gives preferential treatment to citizens or documented non citizens working there?

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Understood. But that is not what DEI is all about.

Telling white people they are racist because they are white is racist.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Uh, huh, and you said that in response to, "There has been a vast backlash against the many career government workers who dedicate their lives in civil service. They are degraded as 'the Deep State.' They have faced massive layoffs. But don’t forget, at its core, government is good."

My point was that there is a massive backlash of hatred against people doing their jobs in government. You find one word to key off of to post your standard talking point, and you ignored the point I was making.

Regarding the so-called Deep State, civil servants' primary duty is to the constitution and the laws that established their function, as well as to the President. They are career employees that cannot be fired at will. They can be fired for cause. Generally direct insubordination to the president and his cabinet would be just cause, so no, there is not a massive group of people who act repeatedly for years in direct insubordination to their chain of command in government.

Is anything in my statement untrue or disagreeable?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Telling white people they are racist because they are white is racist.

Does anybody do that?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Is anything in my statement untrue or disagreeable?

It was an evasion of my point. You simply ignored what I said and repeated an irrelevant talking point.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Does anybody do that?

Yes. It is part of DEI.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

It was an evasion of my point. You simply ignored what I said and repeated an irrelevant talking point.

I reject the premise of your point.

 

[BCP1928]

Yes. It is part of DEI.

Whoever told you that is wrong.

 

[doubtingmerle]

I reject the premise of your point.

OK, then address the premise of my point, instead of wandering off on something that has nothing to do with my point.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Yes. It is part of DEI.

LOL. So, you are just going to make things up? Please prove that the premise of DEI is that every single white person is racist because he is white.

Are you not aware that you cannot simply make things up and use that as an argument? Do you have any argument based on facts?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Telling white people they are racist because they are white is racist.

Perhaps we should back up a minute to address this claim of yours in more detail. I have heard it a few times, but it makes no sense to me. Who is telling white people that every single white person is racist?

That being said, it is true that people have a tendency to promote people of their own race, religion, sex, etc. more than outsiders. It is known as in-group bias. Yes, in-group bias exists. It appears to be a universal tendency and can be a problem with any group thereby excluding potential contributions from people that are different. It is not exclusively a white male trait.

An example of in-group bias was found in a study of businesses in America. It found they are more likely to look at resumes with a name typical of white people versus resumes with a name typically used by Afro-Americans (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS)). Other studies found a bias for males (Journal of Personality and Social PsychologyEdge+11) and a bias against Muslims (Journal of Ethnic and Migration Studies). So yes, such in-group biases do exist.

Although all peoples can have in-group biases, in America, the in-group bias of whites is often the most problematic. That white racial bias is more pronounced because there are many more whites in America. Other races probably have similar biases in different contexts, but in America, other races have much smaller populations, and hence, any such racial bias within their groups has less effect on this country.

Another in-group bias that is strong in America (and most places) is an in-group bias of males for males, which is known as patriarchy. Although a few societies are female dominated, patriarchy is far more common. Both physical makeup and cultural norms can contribute to this male in-group bias. And thus, there has been an in-group male bias within the American business community that has made it harder for women to get ahead in business.

DEI programs simply try to recognize that such in-group biases exist, that they hamper progress, and that equity and inclusion works out better. The goal is to recognize that minorities and women often are overlooked, and this leaves businesses with an unnecessary limitation on the talent pool from which to draw.

None of that says that every single white male is dominated by in-group biases to a greater extent than other people. None of this says that just being white inherently makes your in-group biases stronger than people in other races.

 

[stevil]

Although all peoples can have in-group biases, in America, the in-group bias of whites is often the most problematic. That white racial bias is more pronounced because there are many more whites in America.

It's not about whites, it more about the race that is currently holding all the cards (generally the majority).
So if in USA that is the whites, you can see that with the referral hiring practices, since white men already hold the jobs and hold the hiring positions, they tend to refer other white males. Not because they are racist or sexist, but because they tend to have more friends, relatives and associates that are white male, and so it is much more likely that they are referring white males. And so the domination of white males holding the jobs and the hiring positions continue.

DEI programs simply try to recognize that such in-group biases exist, that they hamper progress, and that equity and inclusion works out better. The goal is to recognize that minorities and women often are overlooked, and this leaves businesses with an unnecessary limitation on the talent pool from which to draw.

Yes, typically DEI initiatives means that they try to ensure the job is advertised in places where not just white males will know about it, They typically try to have a diversity represented in the applications for the job. Also they try to make the workplace as friendly and unbiggoted and accommodating as possible. Which means people can't be racist in the workplace, can't be biggoted, otherwise they get reported and disciplined. Also they make sure the steps have ramp alternatives, the doors are wide enough to accommodate wheelchairs, the toilets are supportive of disabled people etc.
It doesn't mean that there are racial hiring quotas, although some companies might take it that far.