Limited atonement !

[Brightfame52]

There are ample amount of scripture that indicate that the extent of Christs Redemptive Death was limited to Gods Elect/Sheep !

Jesus again says whom He specifically died for:

Jn 10:11,15

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

The good Shepherd lays down His life in behalf of the sheep. Are all men the sheep of Christ? The honest answer is no, for most men do not know Christ, and Christ says that His sheep know Him John 10:14. and Christs knows His Sheep, but some He declares He never knew Matt 7:23 Further, Jesus specifically told the Jews who did not believe in Him, “but you do not believe because you are not my sheep” John 10:26. Notice that in contrast with the idea that we believe and therefore make ourselves Christ’s sheep, Jesus says that they do not believe because they are not His sheep! Whether one is of Christ’s sheep is the Father’s choice (John 6:37, 8:47), not the sheep’s!

 

[Brightfame52]

Scripture is clear that Christ died for and solely loved His Church, His Spiritual Bride Eph 5:2,25-27

2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

 

[Brightfame52]

There was complete unity in the Godhead determining who Jesus Christ was to die a Surety for 1 Jn 5:6-8

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Jesus Christ died in behalf of those that the Father had, from eternity, decreed to save. There is absolute oneness of mind between the Father and the Son and the Spirit in saving God’s Elect. The Father chose and decrees their salvation, the Son dies in their place, and the Spirit sanctifies them setting them apart unto belief of the truth and conforms them to the image of Christ. This is the symmetrical witness of Scripture.

 

[Jack Terrence]

The truth of limited atonement is vital to the Christian Gospel, there's no Gospel without it. See 1 Cor 15:3. It refers specifically to the Death of Christ on the Cross, which death fully satisfied the law and justice of God for not all human beings but only for a certain group, the elect of God, Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.

Now let's get one thing understood, when i speak of limited atonement, i don't mean by any means that Christ atoning death is limited in its power, but that its limited in that it doesn't cover or apply to everyone, but only applies to and covers the elect or chosen of God or the Church of God in Christ, or Gods Sheep. Jn 10

The atonement is limited by men, not by God. God said that he gave the animal "to make atonement for yourselves."

For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for yourselves; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul. Leviticus 17:11

Note that it is both men and the blood of the animal that makes atonement. "I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves, for it is the blood that makes atonement."

to make atonement for yourselves
for it is the blood that makes atonement

The principle that both men and the blood together must make atonement is carried over into the New Testament.

24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as an atonement by His blood, through faith.

God made Christ to be an atonement by his blood through faith and not apart faith. This is equal to the Old Testament principle which says, "make atonement for yourselves, for it is the blood that makes atonement." There is no atonement without the blood and there is no atonement without faith. Jesus is not an atoning sacrifice apart from faith.

Therefore, the atonement is limited by men and not by God. The blood of Christ has been given to all men to make atonement for themselves. All they need to do is to apply it by faith. The Calvinist view of limited atonement is unbiblical.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Jack Terrence

Therefore, the atonement is limited by men and not by God. The blood of Christ has been given to all men to make atonement for themselves. All they need to do is to apply it by faith. The Calvinist view of limited atonement is unbiblical.

This is false !

 

[Brightfame52]

Jesus Christs sacrificial atoning death wasn't for all individuals but for all His People Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins. 10

 

[Brightfame52]

Over against the heresy of Arminianism our Reformed Fathers defended the Scriptural doctrine of Particular Atonement, that is, that the death of Christ was the substitutionary atonement for the sins of His people, the elect, those given Him of the Father before the foundation of the world. That atoning death is efficacious, i.e., has the quality of being effective, produces the intended effect. For that death is of infinite value, making complete and perfect satisfaction for sin, since it was the death of the eternal, only begotten Son of God in our human nature. The doctrine of the particular atonement is therefore of central significance. For that atonement roots in the sovereign, eternal counsel, and gracious will and purpose of God. It extends to all the elect of all tribes, kindreds and nations of all ages, whereby they receive the benefits of the atonement and are led to final, complete salvation.https://sb.rfpa.org/particular-atonement-and-general-preaching/

 

[Brightfame52]

Christians believe in Limited Atonement. We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ, the Great Shepherd of the Sheep died for and redeemed God’s elect, all the elect, and only the elect. He shed his blood for those who are actually saved by his blood. Now in some sense we all believe in a limited atonement for instance:

The arminian believes that the atonement is limited in power and efficacy, that its power and efficacy is limited by the will, and choice, and decision of man, that man by his act of faith makes the blood of Christ effectual to himself.
Christians believe that our Lord’s atonement is limited not in merit, power, and efficacy (There is no limit to that!), but in its purpose, in its intention, in its design, in its scope. Christ died for God’s elect, made reconciliation/propitiation for God’s elect redeemed God’s elect, obtained eternal salvation for God’s elect, all God’s elect, and only God’s elect or sheep! 10

 

[zoidar]

Christians believe in Limited Atonement. We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ, the Great Shepherd of the Sheep died for and redeemed God’s elect, all the elect, and only the elect. He shed his blood for those who are actually saved by his blood. Now in some sense we all believe in a limited atonement for instance:

The arminian believes that the atonement is limited in power and efficacy, that its power and efficacy is limited by the will, and choice, and decision of man, that man by his act of faith makes the blood of Christ effectual to himself.
Christians believe that our Lord’s atonement is limited not in merit, power, and efficacy (There is no limit to that!), but in its purpose, in its intention, in its design, in its scope. Christ died for God’s elect, made reconciliation/propitiation for God’s elect redeemed God’s elect, obtained eternal salvation for God’s elect, all God’s elect, and only God’s elect or sheep! 10

Actually I think Arninians holding to the atonement being unlimited in power since it has the power to save everyone or anyone, where Calvinists, if being consequent don't believe the atonement has the power to save everyone, only the elect.

 

[Brightfame52]

Actually I think Arninians holding to the atonement being unlimited in power since it has the power to save everyone or anyone, where Calvinists, if being consequent don't believe the atonement has the power to save everyone, only the elect.

The atonement of Christ was very successful, it saved everyone Christ died for, which was His Church. Everyone else it was Gods will to dam them for their sins. So the arminian cheap gospel limits the saving efficacy of Christs death, since many for whom their false christ died for, will perish in their sins anyway.

 

[zoidar]

The atonement of Christ was very successful, it saved everyone Christ died for, which was His Church. Everyone else it was Gods will to dam them for their sins. So the arminian cheap gospel limits the saving efficacy of Christs death, since many for whom their false christ died for, will perish in their sins anyway.

You are correct Jesus died for his Church. He did so so believers will be saved. The atonement was also made for everyone outside his Church, so they could become believers and part of his Church, for which he died. That's why the gospel is to be shared with everyone.

 

[Brightfame52]

You are correct Jesus died for his Church. He did so so believers will be saved. The atonement was also made for everyone outside his Church, so they could become believers and part of his Church, for which he died. That's why the gospel is to be shared with everyone.

The church wasn't believers when He died for them, they were unbelievers, sinners ungodly and enemies, however because Christ died for them while in that condition, it sanctified them and caused them to become believers. Believing is a sanctification blessing Eph 5:2526

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

 

[zoidar]

The church wasn't believers when He died for them, they were unbelievers, sinners ungodly and enemies, however because Christ died for them while in that condition, it sanctified them and caused them to become believers. Believing is a sanctification blessing Eph 5:2526

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Where does it say Christ death caused someone to become a believer?

 

[Brightfame52]

Where does it say Christ death caused someone to become a believer?

Where does it say Christs death doesnt cause someone to become a believer ?

 

[zoidar]

The church wasn't believers when He died for them, they were unbelievers, sinners ungodly and enemies, however because Christ died for them while in that condition, it sanctified them and caused them to become believers. Believing is a sanctification blessing Eph 5:2526

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

When Paul wrote this there was a Church, for which Christ had died.

 

[pasifika]

Correct, the one's that chose Him first.

The other way around

 

[Brightfame52]

When Paul wrote this there was a Church, for which Christ had died.

okay

 

[Brightfame52]

All the scripture, every chapter, every verse, every statement, every type and picture of redemption and atonement given in Gods word, Old Testament and New, limits the death of Christ it to a specific people.

Eph 5:25-32

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Particular atonement is plain here:

Christ loved only His Church, He gave Himself only for His Church,

By His death for His Church He sanctifies His Church, He died with this specific People in sight 10

 

[zoidar]

All the scripture, every chapter, every verse, every statement, every type and picture of redemption and atonement given in Gods word, Old Testament and New, limits the death of Christ it to a specific people.

Eph 5:25-32



Particular atonement is plain here:

Christ loved only His Church, He gave Himself only for His Church,

By His death for His Church He sanctifies His Church, He died with this specific People in sight 10

Particular atonement is true, in the sense we are not atoned until we believe. Thus only believers are part of the Church for which Jesus died.

 

[Brightfame52]

Particular atonement is true, in the sense we are not atoned until we believe. Thus only believers are part of the Church for which Jesus died.

Believing is a benefit of having had ones sins already atoned for, one doesnt believe because thy were not one of the Sheep Christ atoned for Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: