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Can Christians be "hateful" or be guilty of "hate speech"?

JohnClay

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Maybe the typical Christian isn't "hateful" but are some of them hateful, including preachers? Can things Christians say be classified as "hate speech"?

Apparently the phrase "Hate the sin, love the sinner" is often attributed to St. Augustine, though its exact origins are debated.
 

Reluctant Theologian

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Maybe the typical Christian isn't "hateful" but are some of them hateful, including preachers? Can things Christians say be classified as "hate speech"?

Apparently the phrase "Hate the sin, love the sinner" is often attributed to St. Augustine, though its exact origins are debated.
In Australia God Himself might be blamed for hate speech ... Given these new laws eventually the Bible could potentially be banned for incitement.
 
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St_Worm2

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Maybe the typical Christian isn't "hateful" but are some of them hateful, including preachers? Can things Christians say be classified as "hate speech"?
Hello John, since a public reading of (much less preaching/teaching on) Genesis 18-19 (Sodom and Gomorrah) can land a reader or a preacher in jail in several countries today (Sweden & England come quickly to mind), I think that the contemporary idea, that some of what the Bible says is "hate speech", is now nothing more than decades old history.

On the other hand, what politicians in various countries have chosen to describe as, "hate speech", the Bible describes as, "love speech", instead (because our choosing to warn people about their dire need to be saved from their sins and why is something that the Bible considers to be "loving" :)).

May God bless you as you seek to find Him and know Him!!

--David

1 Corinthians 13
6 Love does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth.
.
 
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JohnClay

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On the other hand, what politicians in various countries have chosen to describe as, "hate speech", the Bible describes as, "love speech", instead (because our choosing to warn people about their dire need to be saved from their sins and why is something that the Bible considers to be "loving" :)).
The thing about the Old Testament originally is that it didn't seem to allow people to be saved from their sins like the New Testament talks about. People were just killed - sometimes including babies. But at least the deaths seemed to be swift, unlike hell - well except for the Flood. (just some thoughts)
 
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trophy33

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Depends on the definition.

Hate speech can be defined as a derogatory language against a specific group of people. Which Christians and basically everybody do from time to time, even without realizing ("Cretans are always liars, lazy brutes..." Titus 1:12)

Hate speech can be also defined as a speech to incite hatred against a specific group of people. This is what normal, ethical people no matter if Christians or not, should never get into.
 
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Depends on the definition.

Hate speech can be defined as a derogatory language against a specific group of people. Which Christians and basically everybody do from time to time, even without realizing ("Cretans are always liars, lazy brutes..." Titus 1:12)

Hate speech can be also defined as a speech to incite hatred against a specific group of people. This is what normal, ethical people no matter if Christians or not, should never get into.
The Laws in Australia are much broader than that ... anything you do/say/write that may offend (unspecified) anyone may get you into trouble.
 
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trophy33

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The Laws in Australia are much broader than that ... anything you do/say/write that may offend (unspecified) anyone may get you into trouble.
Can you quote the law, verbatim? Because this is a bit vague.
 
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St_Worm2

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The thing about the Old Testament originally is that it didn't seem to allow people to be saved from their sins like the New Testament talks about. People were just killed - sometimes including babies. But at least the deaths seemed to be swift, unlike hell - well except for the Flood. (just some thoughts)
Hello again John, it's true that the OT has many more difficult passages to work through than the NT does, but I think that's because (in part anyway) what has been revealed to us in the NT about salvation was hidden from us (for the most part) in the OT (because salvation by God's grace, instead of by our feeble attempts at obedience to His commands and good works, is a truth that did not become a fulfilled reality for anyone until the Lord Jesus' death and resurrection happened about 2,000 years ago).

That said, I believe that you'll find the first prophesy about the coming Messiah or Savior to be in Genesis 3:15, and the beginning of what theologians have called "the scarlet thread of redemption" in Genesis 3:21 (where animals were sacrificed by God both to clothe our first parents, and to redeem them, temporarily, from their sins against Him). BTW, both the prophesy and the sacrifices for their sins happened while our progenitors were still living in the Garden of Eden (so, the redemption, forgiveness and salvation of mankind is actually something that we begin to see happening in the earliest chapters of the Genesis, on the very day that Adam and Eve sinned, in fact).

--David
p.s. - if you'd like me to, I think I may be able to sway your opinion of the OT a bit by showing you some verses/passages that speak of God's kindness and love for us as our "Savior", that show how people were saved in the OT, what they thought about their salvation, and much more. Let me know if you'd like me to do so.

In the meantime, here's one of my very favorite Psalms (by King David) about God (the only problem with it is its length). Most of the rest of the verses and passages that I'll point out to you will be FAR shorter, a sentence or two long instead (if you end up wanting me to do so, that is).

If you'd just like to read a few verses from the following Psalm, I'd recommend verses 8-14.
PSALM 103
Praise for the LORD’S Mercies.
A Psalm of David.
1 Bless the LORD, O my soul,
And all that is within me, bless His holy name.
2 Bless the LORD, O my soul,
And forget none of His benefits;
3 Who pardons all your iniquities,
Who heals all your diseases;
4 Who redeems your life from the pit,
Who crowns you with lovingkindness and compassion;
5 Who satisfies your years with good things,
So that your youth is renewed like the eagle.
6 The LORD performs righteous deeds
And judgments for all who are oppressed.
7 He made known His ways to Moses,
His acts to the sons of Israel.
8 The LORD is compassionate and gracious,
Slow to anger and abounding in lovingkindness.
9 He will not always strive with us,
Nor will He keep His anger forever.
10 He has not dealt with us according to our sins,
Nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth,
So great is His lovingkindness toward those who fear Him.
12 As far as the east is from the west,
So far has He removed our transgressions from us.
13 Just as a father has compassion on his children,
So the LORD has compassion on those who fear Him.
14 For He Himself knows our frame;
He is mindful that we are but dust.
15 As for man, his days are like grass;
As a flower of the field, so he flourishes.
16 When the wind has passed over it, it is no more,
And its place acknowledges it no longer.
17 But the lovingkindness of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting on those who fear Him,
And His righteousness to children’s children,
18 To those who keep His covenant
And remember His precepts to do them.
19 The LORD has established His throne in the heavens,
And His sovereignty rules over all.
20 Bless the LORD, you His angels,
Mighty in strength, who perform His word,
Obeying the voice of His word!
21 Bless the LORD, all you His hosts,
You who serve Him, doing His will.
22 Bless the LORD, all you works of His,
In all places of His dominion;
Bless the LORD, O my soul!
 
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JohnClay

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@St_Worm2
I've heard Ken Ham talk about that animal sacrifice in Genesis 3 - which is an interesting point. My favourite Bible translation is the NIRV because it is pretty accurate and easy to understand (rather than talking about iniquities, etc).
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Maybe the typical Christian isn't "hateful" but are some of them hateful, including preachers? Can things Christians say be classified as "hate speech"?

Apparently the phrase "Hate the sin, love the sinner" is often attributed to St. Augustine, though its exact origins are debated.
Not everyone who claims to be Christian, is a Christian. One who is actually in the Body of Christ. You will know them by their fruits.
Blessings
Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Maybe the typical Christian isn't "hateful" but are some of them hateful, including preachers? Can things Christians say be classified as "hate speech"?

Apparently the phrase "Hate the sin, love the sinner" is often attributed to St. Augustine, though its exact origins are debated.

Sure, some things that some preachers preach are hateful, no scare-quotes needed. No one has to pretend that every word that drops from a pastoral podium in some church building is the veritable words of God.

As for why St. Augustine left the phrase about hating sin that he did, I think it's because as he has shown in his venerable book, "Confessions," he had to struggle with overcoming his own hangups and, in doing so, often referred to the likes of the following verses (shown in the bibleinfo link provided below)


Maybe there's a better way to say it though?

Maybe something like the following would better: Love people, especially because they're struggling with sin.
 
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Reluctant Theologian

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Can you quote the law, verbatim? Because this is a bit vague.
Hate speech laws pass parliament as Liberals claim freedom of speech is at risk

Can't find the complete Law text yet from the State of Victoria.

The problem with this and other similar laws is that it does not further define what is considered 'hate/revulsion/etc.' ... When someone has a serious dislike of a particular religion / culture or people group and would express that in public (online or elsewhere), that easily could now be used to apply this law. In reality though the policing is unbalanced and two-tiered like in the UK now.

Australia does not officially have 'free speech' protections like the USA or many European countries do. It's a former penal colony.
 
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Maori Aussie

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Hate speech laws pass parliament as Liberals claim freedom of speech is at risk

Australia does not officially have 'free speech' protections like the USA or many European countries do. It's a former penal colony.
“Unlike most constitutions, it doesn’t have a provision that says there shall be freedom of speech, or everyone has the right to freedom of expression,”.
 
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Maori Aussie

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As for why St. Augustine left the phrase about hating sin that he did, I think it's because as he has shown in his venerable book, "Confessions," he had to struggle with overcoming his own hangups and, in doing so, often referred to the likes of the following verses (shown in the bibleinfo link provided below). Maybe there's a better way to say it though?
Personally, I see "Hate the sin, love the sinner" as absolutely biblical, coming directly out of John Chapter 8, and "The woman caught in adultery". IMHO Jesus built a fence around the OT Law prohibiting the taking of vengeance, "Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord", expanding it all the way out to exclude Judgement of people (a role of God). So, the woman is not stoned, as required by the OT Law, BUT is told "Go and sin no more". John 8:11
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Personally, I see "Hate the sin, love the sinner" as absolutely biblical, coming directly out of John Chapter 8, and "The woman caught in adultery". IMHO Jesus built a fence around the OT Law prohibiting the taking of vengeance, "Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord", expanding it all the way out to exclude Judgement of people (a role of God). So, the woman is not stoned, as required by the OT Law, BUT is told "Go and sin no more". John 8:11

Unfortunately, not all of us are Wesleyan interpretive fans. I do not believe that moral perfection can be acquired in this life time. The best we can do is wake up each day and do our best to "reckon" ourselves as dead to sin. Hating sin in others that we ourselves have not overcome seems to me to be a bit of an oxy-moron.
 
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JohnClay

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Personally, I see "Hate the sin, love the sinner" as absolutely biblical, coming directly out of John Chapter 8, and "The woman caught in adultery". IMHO Jesus built a fence around the OT Law prohibiting the taking of vengeance, "Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord", expanding it all the way out to exclude Judgement of people (a role of God). So, the woman is not stoned, as required by the OT Law, BUT is told "Go and sin no more". John 8:11
That story is kind of not Biblical because it originally wasn't part of the Bible:
[The earliest manuscripts and many other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53—8:11. A few manuscripts include these verses, wholly or in part, after John 7:36, John 21:25, Luke 21:38 or Luke 24:53.]
 
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Maori Aussie

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That story is kind of not Biblical because it originally wasn't part of the Bible:
I believe this is an example of oral history, where the very well-known story ran parallel to the narrative, until the community felt compelled to include it. I do understand why this teaching is so hard to accept. Humans need to judge people; sadly, it is what they do.
IMHO this runs parallel to Jesus saying, "Do not judge",
Paul saying, "who am I to judge those outside the church", and later,
Paul saying, "who are you to judge another person's servant (a fellow Christian)".
But humans need to judge people, sadly it is what they do.
 
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trophy33

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Hate speech laws pass parliament as Liberals claim freedom of speech is at risk

Can't find the complete Law text yet from the State of Victoria.

The problem with this and other similar laws it that it does not further define what is considered 'hate/revulsion/etc.' ... When someone has a serious dislike of a particular religion / culture or people group and would express that in public (online or elsewhere), that easily could now be used to apply this law. In reality though the policing is unbalanced and two-tiered like in the UK now.

Australia does not officially have 'free speech' protections like the USA or many European countries do. It's a former penal colony.
I just wanted to know whether it is really happening in real life or whether it is a political or medial exaggeration. So far, it seems the text of the laws is not yet available, it is only about passing the bill. Nobody was judged or convicted based on it, so it is hard to say how it will look like in the real life.

I could only find that it will be about threatening or advocating the use of force/violence against protected groups. Such laws are almost everywhere in Europe and nobody banned the Bible because of it. If the country as such is democratic, with regular elections, opposition parties, free press etc, then it should be fine. A new government can change the laws if needed.
 
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St_Worm2

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Personally, I see "Hate the sin, love the sinner" as absolutely biblical, coming directly out of John Chapter 8, and "The woman caught in adultery". IMHO Jesus built a fence around the OT Law prohibiting the taking of vengeance, "Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord", expanding it all the way out to exclude Judgement of people (a role of God). So, the woman is not stoned, as required by the OT Law, BUT is told "Go and sin no more". John 8:11
Hello Maori, the fact that God chose to love us and save us while we were still sinners is a pretty easy case to make Biblically .. e.g. Romans 5:8-10, but can the same be said about the cliché, "hate the sin, love the sinner"? Is it "absolutely" Biblical? I'm not sure .. e.g. Psalm 5:5, Psalm11:5.

So, how do we reconcile such passages and/or understand the Bible when it tells us elsewhere that God "hates" certain people (such as Esau), as well people, in general, whose intentions and/or actions are sinful/evil in His sight?

Do you think that it's possible for Him to both love us and hate us at the same time? I know that ~we~ cannot do something like that, but can God?

Finally, I don't agree with the following idea, that our choice to obey certain commandments, statutes and ordinances of God will lead us to judging people and taking revenge upon them.

God bless you!!

--David

Romans 12
19 Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY,” says the Lord.
John 7
24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.
 
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