Rfk drops ball

[stevil]

When someone makes statements that leave themselves open to ridicule they have only themselves to blame when someone notices.

OK, your still choosing to troll then rather than be honest and converse with sincerity.

Good for you.

 

[stevil]

For military personnel and government employees. Others like me had to take it to keep our jobs

As an employer responsible for workplaces they insisted that people coming into work either had the vaccine or were regularly tested.

But as the government controlling the people of a country, did they mandate vaccines?

 

[Say it aint so]

I didn’t have that option, and if the military had it why were so many dismissed?

On August 24, 2021, the Secretary of Defense mandated that all service members receive the COVID-19 vaccine. The Secretary of Defense later rescinded the mandate on January 10, 2023. The vaccine mandate was an unfair, overbroad, and completely unnecessary burden on our service members. Further, the military unjustly discharged those who refused the vaccine, regardless of the years of service given to our Nation, after failing to grant many of them an exemption that they should have received. Federal Government redress of any wrongful dismissals is overdue.

Reinstating Service Members Discharged Under the Military's COVID-19 Vaccination Mandate

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered: Section 1. Purpose and

www.whitehouse.gov

The option was there, and apparently people choose the other option.

*Edit, or maybe that was for the private sector.

 

[BPPLEE]

The option was there, and apparently people choose the other option.

https://www.349amw.afrc.af.mil/COVID-19/DAF-COVID-19-Vaccine-FAQ/

”Any refusal to receive the COVID-19 vaccine, absent an approved exemption, may be punishable under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.”

 

[Say it aint so]

https://www.349amw.afrc.af.mil/COVID-19/DAF-COVID-19-Vaccine-FAQ/

”
Any refusal to receive the COVID-19 vaccine, absent an approved exemption, may be
punishable under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.”

Yes, what I was looking at applied to the private sector of 100+.

 

[BPPLEE]

Yes, what I was looking at applied to the private sector of 100+.

Vaccination was mandatory for the 1.3 million active-duty personnel and around 800,000 reserve forces

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Vaccination was mandatory for the 1.3 million active-duty personnel and around 800,000 reserve forces

I got mine in 2021 on a baseball field at Pearl Harbor Hawaii near the Makalapa gate.

 

[BPPLEE]

I got mine in 2021 on a baseball field at Pearl Harbor Hawaii near the Makalapa gate.

I got mine in the hospital in Selma where I worked as head of security

 

[probinson]

Do you understand the difference between "less likely" vs "100% guaranteed immunity"?

Yes. Do you?

Not sure what your point is.

Well, you just got done saying that people were "less likely" to get COVID, and then you said that the vaccine would have a 100% failure rate in preventing infections when you admitted that everyone was going to get COVID. That's why I'm not sure you understand what the term "less likely" means.

It slows down the exponential rate at which people catch the disease.

I just posted two studies (and one of those studies referenced three other studies) that all demonstrated a correlation between increased number of vaccine doses and INCREASED infections. That kind of flies in the face of your assertion that it slows down infections. In fact, these studies showed that it ACCELERATED infections in people with more doses.

One of the major problems faced by countries during the pandemic is the impact all these illnesses had on limited resources of doctors and hospitals etc.

Aside from a few isolated incidents, this is largely untrue.

Hospital occupancies have been elevated for several years, rising from an average of 63.9% between 2009 and 2019 to 75.3% between May 2023 and April 2024. If the average hospital occupancy rates hit 85%, researchers say the country will have a bed shortage.​

​

It's also important to understand what goes into calculating hospital occupancies.

• U.S. hospitals are busier than they were before the COVID-19 pandemic, according to a study published Wednesday in JAMA Open Network. If occupancy trends continue to rise as expected, the nation could be on the brink of a bed shortage.
• Average hospital occupancy rates were up 11% in 2024 compared to 2019, due mostly to a declining supply of staffed beds rather than an increase in hospitalizations. The average supply of staffed beds fell from 802,000 beds between 2009 and 2019 to 674,000 beds between May 2023 and April 2024.

Hospitals are more packed post-pandemic

Hospital occupancy rates were higher in 2024 than 2019. If occupancy rates trend up, the nation could face a bed shortage by 2032, according to researchers.

www.healthcaredive.com

​

​

So according to this article, hospital occupancy rates increased from an average of 63.9% in the decade prior to the pandemic to 75.3% during the pandemic. Clearly, that is an increase. But 75% isn't over-capacity. And it's also affected by more than just increased infections.

Further, hospital capacities are WORSE NOW than they were during the pandemic. In my rural area, we've just recently had two hospitals close their doors. This is a separate issue that is a real problem that has NOTHING to do with the pandemic.

And who remembers all the choreographed TikTok videos of doctors and nurses line dancing in the ICU hallways? If you want me to believe that you're out of resources and over-capacity, maybe don't spend your time making social media videos.

Waste of time talking to you about what happened in NZ, you are not bothering to listen nor to think.

Agreed. As long as you continue to deny the reality in NZ, it is a waste of time to talk about it.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

It's their choice. Not something to be legislated. I don't want a Nanny state.

If you advocate for universal healthcare (to cover the fallout of such decisions), then I'd argue that you want the exact same level of "nanny state", you're just wanting the intervention to happen a different point of the process.


A true opposition to what you're calling "nanny state" would be an absolutist "you made your own bed, now you have to lay in it" position. Not a "I made the choice to eat 7,000 calories worth of fast food every day, and now that I'm sick from it, the government has a duty to use pooled funds from others to pay for me to get treated"


If people are expecting some level of government involvement in the healthcare process, then the taxpayers who fund the government get to have some level of say on how that is applied.


As the comedian Chris Rock say "you don't pay tax, they take tax...you get your check, that money's already gone", so if we're getting forced into a healthcare compact with our fellow citizens, we get to have an opinion.

"My health, my decision, your money" isn't a sentiment that sits well with people.

 

[probinson]

As an employer responsible for workplaces they insisted that people coming into work either had the vaccine or were regularly tested.

But as the government controlling the people of a country, did they mandate vaccines?

I was in NYC at the height of the vaccine-zealotry in February 2022. The rules were completely nonsensical and arbitrary.

I went to the Statue of Liberty. You could go through the inside security, ride the ferry shoulder-to-shoulder with people, walk all over Ellis Island inside and out, walk over Liberty Island, go in the Statue of Liberty, visit the gift shop and buy Statue of Liberty memorabilia, visit the museums on both islands... all without proving your vaccination status. Oh, but if you wanted to go into the cafeteria on either island and have a hot dog, THAT is when you had to show your vaccine card, because there was a completely arbitrary mandate to be vaccinated to eat in restaurants. One couple was turned away because they forgot their vaccine cards. I heard them trying to reason with the bouncer at the door checking everyone's papers that they would go inside, keep their mask on, order their food, and then eat it outside. But they would not let them in without a vaccine card. Sheer lunacy. Completely arbitrary. Completely nonsensical.

Likewise, when you entered a restaurant, you had to wear your mask.... until you sat down. At that time, you could take off your mask and sit in the crowded restaurant with people from literally all over the world for hours on end.... unless you had to use the restroom, and then you had to mask up again. Oh, and the workers all had to be masked, which made it nearly impossible for my elderly parents to understand what they were saying. And when you got up to leave your table and go outside, they wanted you to put your mask on again. (I didn't put my mask one when I was leaving one restaurant, and a worker stopped me and told me I had to put my mask on. I said, "What are you going to do, throw me out? I'm leaving." Moron.) I mean, did they think the virus is only transmissible while you were standing?

What I really liked was the restaurants that had set up little enclosed areas in the front of the restaurant when it was deemed too unsafe to eat "inside". So they set up a smaller "inside" space "outside" and convinced themselves they were "outside" even though the space they were in was completely enclosed.

NONE of this made any sense. It was all performative. Yet all of this nonsensical, performative theater was mandated by the local government.

 

[Perpetual Student]

Yeah, just like with the flu

For which a new vaccin is developed, according with the strain of that year.

 

[stevil]

I was in NYC at the height of the vaccine-zealotry in February 2022. The rules were completely nonsensical and arbitrary.

I went to the Statue of Liberty. You could go through the inside security, ride the ferry shoulder-to-shoulder with people, walk all over Ellis Island inside and out, walk over Liberty Island, go in the Statue of Liberty, visit the gift shop and buy Statue of Liberty memorabilia, visit the museums on both islands... all without proving your vaccination status. Oh, but if you wanted to go into the cafeteria on either island and have a hot dog, THAT is when you had to show your vaccine card, because there was a completely arbitrary mandate to be vaccinated to eat in restaurants. One couple was turned away because they forgot their vaccine cards. I heard them trying to reason with the bouncer at the door checking everyone's papers that they would go inside, keep their mask on, order their food, and then eat it outside. But they would not let them in without a vaccine card. Sheer lunacy. Completely arbitrary. Completely nonsensical.

Likewise, when you entered a restaurant, you had to wear your mask.... until you sat down. At that time, you could take off your mask and sit in the crowded restaurant with people from literally all over the world for hours on end.... unless you had to use the restroom, and then you had to mask up again. Oh, and the workers all had to be masked, which made it nearly impossible for my elderly parents to understand what they were saying. And when you got up to leave your table and go outside, they wanted you to put your mask on again. (I didn't put my mask one when I was leaving one restaurant, and a worker stopped me and told me I had to put my mask on. I said, "What are you going to do, throw me out? I'm leaving." Moron.) I mean, did they think the virus is only transmissible while you were standing?

What I really liked was the restaurants that had set up little enclosed areas in the front of the restaurant when it was deemed too unsafe to eat "inside". So they set up a smaller "inside" space "outside" and convinced themselves they were "outside" even though the space they were in was completely enclosed.

NONE of this made any sense. It was all performative. Yet all of this nonsensical, performative theater was mandated by the local government.

The idea is that the virus is in water droplets and is not airbourne, it goes from your mouth then down to the ground. There is maybe a short space around you which is vulnerable. So it makes sense that you wear the mask when you are walking about the restaurant but not necessary in the space of your own table.

Also generally people needed to wear masks in spaces that vulnerable people couldn't easily avoid. e.g. vulnerable people need to go to the supermarket, but don't need to go to the pub.

BTW a moron isn't a person trying to save the health and lives of their customers, but is a person that finds it all to bothersome to do effort that might save lives.

 

[BPPLEE]

The idea is that the virus is in water droplets and is not airbourne, it goes from your mouth then down to the ground. There is maybe a short space around you which is vulnerable. So it makes sense that you wear the mask when you are walking about the restaurant but not necessary in the space of your own table.

Also generally people needed to wear masks in spaces that vulnerable people couldn't easily avoid. e.g. vulnerable people need to go to the supermarket, but don't need to go to the pub.

BTW a moron isn't a person trying to save the health and lives of their customers, but is a person that finds it all to bothersome to do effort that might save lives.

Yes, COVID-19 is airborne in a house. The virus can remain suspended in the air for hours or even days, traveling long distances within an indoor space. This means that people can inhale the virus and become infected if they are in the same room as someone who is infected, even if they are not within 6 feet of them.

Indoor Air and Coronavirus (COVID-19) | US EPA

EPA recommends precautions to reduce the potential airborne transmission of the virus, such as ventilation and air filtration as a part of a larger strategy that includes minimizing close contact, surface cleaning, handwashing, and other precautions.

www.epa.gov

Transmission of COVID-19 from inhalation of virus in the air can occur at distances greater than six feet. Particles from an infected person can move throughout an entire room or indoor space. The particles can also linger in the air after a person has left the room – they can remain airborne for hours in some cases.

So having people wear a mask in a restaurant then taking it off to eat is ridiculous and no more effective than wearing a crow's foot necklace

 

[stevil]

If you advocate for universal healthcare (to cover the fallout of such decisions), then I'd argue that you want the exact same level of "nanny state", you're just wanting the intervention to happen a different point of the process.


A true opposition to what you're calling "nanny state" would be an absolutist "you made your own bed, now you have to lay in it" position.

That's very silly.

I'm not an idealist, I don't latch onto an ideology and stick to it no matter what.
I believe people should have freedoms, but during a deadly global pandemic I am ok with people losing their freedoms temporarily to save lives.

I believe the government should fund essential services such as schools, roads, hospitals etc, these things shouldn't just be for the wealthy.
I believe a government should create and enforce laws for the goal of making society safe, stable and thriving. But I don't believe that government should be telling us how to live, who to love, what to eat, and what to do with our private parts or what to do with our wombs. Government should stop us from being mean to others and making society a hell for others, but government shouldn't be telling us what to do with ourselves.

 

[Laodicean60]

This is idiotic.

Let me explain what happened in NZ maybe this will help.
NZ by the way, is part of planet Earth, and we have travellers that leave NZ and travellers that come into NZ.


When the pandemic first started, Covid had spread pretty much everywhere.
As with most countries, we sent messages to NZer's abroad that NZ will soon go into lockdown and gave them some time to come home.

Once they came home, we did go into lockdown, Both our major right wing and left wing parties were in agreement that this is what should happen, there was no political polarisation.

The government formed a plan, the goal was irradication. We went into lockdown, only essential services continued running. Our infected numbers kept going up for 2 weeks, then they started going down. After a couple of months there were no more infected people. We cautiously came out of lockdown, we still required masks, and social gatherings were restricted to small numbers.

Eventually we realised we were safe. We opened internally everything back up, we no longer needed masks, we could even go to concerts and attend sports at stadiums. We still had a covid count, but that was at the border and not in general population. People could fly into NZ but were required to stay isolated at hotels for 2 weeks. So some covid cases ticked along at a steady (not exponential rate) and there was very little risk in society. At times we had some people sneak out of quarantine and go into general population, this caused much panic and lot of effort to see if the disease had gone into the populus. There was once that the disease got out and Auckland went into lockdown again. The disease was stamped out again and Auckland opened back up.

Eventually the Vaccine was developed and NZ got their hands on it, around a similar time the Omicron variant came, and got into Auckland. Auckland were again on lockdown, but didn't seem to be able to stamp it out. Meanwhile the country was quickly getting vaccinated.
Eventually once a very large percentage of the country got vaccinated, we open up even our international borders, so of course then the disease came in and spread to everyone. But because by then we were vaccinated, our hospitalisation and death rates were much lower than they would have been had we been infected prevaccination.
NZ continued reporting on Covid infections way longer than USA did.
But you will find that what NZ differ on in comparrison to countries that either just let the disease run rampant or those that struggled to contain it in the prevaccine era, is that NZ had a very low Covid deathrate per population.
It is not useful at all to compare our overall infection rates, because as with most countries, pretty much everyone caught Covid sooner or later. Many people caught it

Thx for the history lesson but where in all this prove covid is eradicated Besides your PM saying so. When I think of eradication I think of smallpox.

 

[Laodicean60]

You think the government should be telling people how to make rice puffs, how to make cornflakes, how to make weetbix, down to the level of how much sugar, what type of sugar, how much wheat, and whatever other ingrediency people put into these things?

And then when a company invents a new type of food, you think they should get a government representative in to modify their recipe before they are allowed to take it to market?

Afterall it's called Food and Drug Administration.

 

[stevil]

Yes, COVID-19 is airborne in a house. The virus can remain suspended in the air for hours or even days, traveling long distances within an indoor space. This means that people can inhale the virus and become infected if they are in the same room as someone who is infected, even if they are not within 6 feet of them.

Coronavirus disease (COVID-19): How is it transmitted?

The English version was updated on 23 December 2021.

www.who.int

• Current evidence suggests that the virus spreads mainly between people who are in close contact with each other, for example at a conversational distance. The virus can spread from an infected person’s mouth or nose in small liquid particles when they cough, sneeze, speak, sing or breathe. Another person can then contract the virus when infectious particles that pass through the air are inhaled at short range (this is often called short-range aerosol or short-range airborne transmission) or if infectious particles come into direct contact with the eyes, nose, or mouth (droplet transmission).

• The virus can also spread in poorly ventilated and/or crowded indoor settings, where people tend to spend longer periods of time. This is because aerosols can remain suspended in the air or travel farther than conversational distance (this is often called long-range aerosol or long-range airborne transmission).

 

[stevil]

Thx for the history lesson but where in all this prove covid is eradicated Besides your PM saying so. When I think of eradication I think of smallpox.

Well, I wasn't talking about eradication in terms of the entire planet, Just in NZ society.

The proof that it was eradicated is that we opened up, we were no longer wearing masks, and we were going to stadiums full of people, and we didn't then have the virus exponentially spreading in our country, our hospitals weren't full, our people weren't dying.

 

[BPPLEE]

Coronavirus disease (COVID-19): How is it transmitted?

The English version was updated on 23 December 2021.

www.who.int

• Current evidence suggests that the virus spreads mainly between people who are in close contact with each other, for example at a conversational distance. The virus can spread from an infected person’s mouth or nose in small liquid particles when they cough, sneeze, speak, sing or breathe. Another person can then contract the virus when infectious particles that pass through the air are inhaled at short range (this is often called short-range aerosol or short-range airborne transmission) or if infectious particles come into direct contact with the eyes, nose, or mouth (droplet transmission).

• The virus can also spread in poorly ventilated and/or crowded indoor settings, where people tend to spend longer periods of time. This is because aerosols can remain suspended in the air or travel farther than conversational distance (this is often called long-range aerosol or long-range airborne transmission).

You just posted that it's not airborne