Rfk drops ball

[Pommer]

Is that flaming?

Sky diving is completely safe, until it’s not.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Do you want USA to be a nanny state, where government is somewhat like your Mum and Dad, putting restrictions on you, stopping you from swearing, stopping you from doing "immoral" things, making sure you eat healthy, have all your vegetables or you are not going to get dessert, making sure you brush your teeth and get to bed nice and early?

Is that what you expect from government?
Prohibition, perhaps ban lollies, fizzy drinks, packets of chips, chocolate, just make sure people eat unprocessed foods, maybe make the country go paleo.

No, just the same restrictions Europe has with regards to food additives, and excess sugar content being added needlessly.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Were vaccines mandatory in any country?

There were varying levels of mandates.

General Population Mandates​

• Austria – Announced a nationwide vaccine mandate in February 2022, requiring all adults to get vaccinated or face fines. However, the law was suspended a few months later due to changing circumstances.
• Indonesia – One of the strictest policies, requiring COVID-19 vaccination for all adults, with potential fines or social assistance restrictions for non-compliance.
• Turkmenistan – Made vaccination mandatory for all eligible citizens in 2021.
• Micronesia – Required all adults to be vaccinated, making it one of the few countries with a strict nationwide mandate.

Workplace & Sector-Specific Mandates​

• Italy – Mandated vaccines for healthcare workers, teachers, and later extended it to all workers (those without proof of vaccination or recovery had to take unpaid leave).
• France – Required healthcare workers, care home staff, and certain professionals to be vaccinated.
• Greece – Made vaccines mandatory for healthcare workers and people over 60, imposing fines on older individuals who refused.
• Canada – Required federal workers and travelers using planes or trains to be vaccinated.

Then there were other countries with "quasi-mandates"...where, in essence "if you don't get the vaccine, you don't get to participate in society"

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/jacinda-ardern-admits-new-zealand-will-become-a-twotier-society-between-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-b2179915.html

 

[Laodicean60]

Is that what you expect from government?
Prohibition, perhaps ban lollies, fizzy drinks, packets of chips, chocolate, just make sure people eat unprocessed foods, maybe make the country go paleo.

I expect them to do their job. If you knew how unhealthy this stuff is, you'd expect warning labels to be changed; instead of pharmaceutical commercials, we should have info commercials educating the public about health. You know, like too much fructose causes fatty liver.

Maybe a ban on all this stuff will make the food corporations switch to healthy ingredients instead of carcinogenic foods. Corporations know this because they send the EU different products than we eat, and the FDA doesn't know this? Our Government caters to the corporations.

 

[durangodawood]

Or does the model work specifically because it's not mandatory.

Things that are presented as optional instead of "you have to do this or else!" tends to give off more of a "up & up" vibe.


"Hey, there's stuff to drink in the fridge, it's really good, feel free to grab some if you'd like"
vs.
"I have this cup of stuff here, you have to drink it, and I'm going to stand here and watch to make sure you do"

...it going to give off two very different vibes.


There is a reason why the covid vaccines got such a different response (and level of hesitancy from the public) compared to flu vaccines, TDAPs, etc...

People, who for years answered "yes" whenever their doctor said at their check-up "Hey, it looks like you're due for your XYZ vaccine, would you like to take care of that now while you're already here in the office?", all of the sudden became newly minted "vaccine skeptics" after the way the covid vaccine rollout was handled.

One can discount the fact that the "high pressure/stick instead of the carrot" approach didn't do public vaccine attitudes any favors.

Yeah in America its alway something else besides the medical facts.

With the covid vaccine it was the speed of development (Thanks, Trump!), that people were spooked by "RNA" being part of the vaccine type name, and of course social media opportunists.

But its much more than covid, with Americans increasingly clinging to any "alternative" notion about vaccines generally.

 

[BPPLEE]

From what you say, sounds like it.

But Nancy didn't convince most of the left to not wear masks and to not get vaccinated and to not social distance. That never became a USA left wing thing.

It’s true that the right was more skeptical, for good reason

 

[BPPLEE]

Sky diving is completely safe, until it’s not.

I was vaccinated and had COVID twice. Both the vaccine and having COVID make you more susceptible to blood clots. I had a DVT and a pulmonary embolism

 

[BPPLEE]

There were varying levels of mandates.

General Population Mandates​

• Austria – Announced a nationwide vaccine mandate in February 2022, requiring all adults to get vaccinated or face fines. However, the law was suspended a few months later due to changing circumstances.
• Indonesia – One of the strictest policies, requiring COVID-19 vaccination for all adults, with potential fines or social assistance restrictions for non-compliance.
• Turkmenistan – Made vaccination mandatory for all eligible citizens in 2021.
• Micronesia – Required all adults to be vaccinated, making it one of the few countries with a strict nationwide mandate.

Workplace & Sector-Specific Mandates​

• Italy – Mandated vaccines for healthcare workers, teachers, and later extended it to all workers (those without proof of vaccination or recovery had to take unpaid leave).
• France – Required healthcare workers, care home staff, and certain professionals to be vaccinated.
• Greece – Made vaccines mandatory for healthcare workers and people over 60, imposing fines on older individuals who refused.
• Canada – Required federal workers and travelers using planes or trains to be vaccinated.

Then there were other countries with "quasi-mandates"...where, in essence "if you don't get the vaccine, you don't get to participate in society"

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/jacinda-ardern-admits-new-zealand-will-become-a-twotier-society-between-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-b2179915.html

They were mandatory for me to keep my job

 

[probinson]

did you read what I said on last point? YOU GET IT FROM COVID TOO. so making sure covid doesn't hang around long protects better then just catching it.

That's just not true.

The fact of the matter is that COVID posed no real threat to healthy, young men. Giving them a vaccine introduced them to a higher risk of myocarditis.

do you know how statistics work?

Yes. Do you?

You can easily see the noise, if there is a sudden uptick in heart issues or other things where it's plausible you can look to see if it's an anomoly or real.

There was a rather large uptick in heart issues. "Chest pain" was the number one item typed into the free text field in V-Safe. Over 40,000 people reported this symptom. It was very real.

 

[probinson]

It’s true that the right was more skeptical, for good reason

The right was also much better at accurately assessing the risk COVID posed, although just about everyone overestimated their risk of hospitalization.

Gallup did a poll in September 2021. The results were telling.

How the Public Understands Hospitalization Risk​

For both vaccinated and unvaccinated populations, very few adults reported a correct answer, which is less than one percent. See the discussion in the appendix for details about the correct hospitalization rates and efficacy estimates. Only 8% of U.S. adults gave correct answers for the unvaccinated population and 38% for the vaccinated population.​

​

Partisanship was a strong predictor of accuracy, but party accuracy varied by whether the respondent was assessing the risk of the vaccinated or unvaccinated populations.​

​

For unvaccinated hospitalization risk, 2% of Democrats responded correctly, compared with 16% of Republicans. In fact, 41% of Democrats replied that at least 50% of unvaccinated people have been hospitalized due to COVID-19.​

​

​

​

U.S. Adults' Estimates of COVID-19 Hospitalization Risk

Americans' estimates of both the risk of hospitalization due to COVID-19 and the efficacy of the vaccine for the disease vary widely by their political affiliation and vaccination status.

news.gallup.com

​

This is a testament to just how poorly public health educated people on the risks of COVID.

 

[loveofourlord]

That's just not true.

The fact of the matter is that COVID posed no real threat to healthy, young men. Giving them a vaccine introduced them to a higher risk of myocarditis.



Yes. Do you?



There was a rather large uptick in heart issues. "Chest pain" was the number one item typed into the free text field in V-Safe. Over 40,000 people reported this symptom. It was very real.

they can still pass the disease on to others, why does the right hate older people, thats like most of your base.

 

[stevil]

It’s true that the right was more skeptical, for good reason

For political identity reasons and unfortunately it probably caused 100's of thousand more dead than otherwise would have been.

 

[stevil]

I expect them to do their job. If you knew how unhealthy this stuff is, you'd expect warning labels to be changed; instead of pharmaceutical commercials, we should have info commercials educating the public about health. You know, like too much fructose causes fatty liver.

Maybe a ban on all this stuff will make the food corporations switch to healthy ingredients instead of carcinogenic foods. Corporations know this because they send the EU different products than we eat, and the FDA doesn't know this? Our Government caters to the corporations.

Do you guys have ingredients listed on the packet/box? People do need to learn to think for themselves.

 

[stevil]

Then there were other countries with "quasi-mandates"...where, in essence "if you don't get the vaccine, you don't get to participate in society"

Typically employers and wanted to have a safe environment for employees to work, and shops that had customers visit wanted to have a safe environment for customers to visit. Make's sense to me.

 

[stevil]

No, just the same restrictions Europe has with regards to food additives, and excess sugar content being added needlessly.

I agree that people should try to avoid sugar.
I buy All Bran as a cereal as it has no sugar, I buy peanut butter that has no sugar.
Just read the labels on the box.

 

[stevil]

The fact of the matter is that COVID posed no real threat to healthy, young men. Giving them a vaccine introduced them to a higher risk of myocarditis.

Everyone was going to catch Covid at some stage.
Covid gives you worse myocarditis than the vaccine does.

 

[probinson]

they can still pass the disease on to others,

Which is true whether you are vaccinated or not.

why does the right hate older people,

What an inflammatory and nonsensical accusation.

thats like most of your base.

Not sure who you think my "base" is, but I'm a registered independent. I think both political parties are full of hypocritical boneheads and nearly none of them represent my values and ideals..

 

[Pommer]

I was vaccinated and had COVID twice. Both the vaccine and having COVID make you more susceptible to blood clots. I had a DVT and a pulmonary embolism

Your personal medical history (fascinating as it is), isn’t germane to my “survivor’s bias” (fallacy), that I had mentioned before.
All I was saying is that having had measles, chicken pox and mumps and (thankfully) being able to post about surviving those, discounts the small percentage of people who had died from those causes (and are therefore no longer alive to share how well that they are doing).

I wasn’t attacking you for posting, rather pointing out that the dead cannot post.

I am sorry if my terse post made you feel “attacked”.

 

[probinson]

Everyone was going to catch Covid at some stage.

Huh. I guess the vaccine doesn't stop you from getting COVID after all. So much for that "dead end" nonsense Fauci pushed to try to increase vaccine uptake.

Covid gives you worse myocarditis than the vaccine does.

Source?

 

[stevil]

Which is true whether you are vaccinated or not.

In the pre vaccine pandemic era the main goal was to slow the spread of the disease, to buy time to get people eventually vaccinated.
That's why people were wearing masks, social distancing etc.

While the vaccine was being rolled out, it takes time to get everyone vaccinated, and there are people in the workplace who go home and maybe take care of mum and dad who might be eighty plus years old.

The belief was, although people can still catch Covid even though you have been vaccinated, you are less likely to then pass it on. The worry was not about you taking a personal risk in not taking the vaccine, but was you endangering others, be that co-workmates or customers.
So employees and business owners made decisions to make their workplace and customer places as safe as possible.