Vance makes his debut as VP on the international stage at a high-stakes AI summit in Paris

[Larniavc]

Europe doesn't hate Trump

Yeah we do. We consider him a bad person.

 

[Larniavc]

They don’t think he is an idiot

Yes we do!

 

[Larniavc]

I am wondering what national security benefits the US gains by creating animosity between Europe and the US.

It’a performance for the base at home. Nothing more clever than that.

 

[Larniavc]

It was refreshing to hear a VP with a strong voice, who obviously prepared for the speech and very eloquently addressed the facts without wavering.

That is the bear minimum to expect from any politician.

 

[eclipsenow]

There is that!

But it's worse than that I'm afraid.

This is my favourite reporter - and one of the greatest mistakes in my life just a few years back was to miss the opportunity of becoming his friend! He went to our church for a few years (before he moved north to Newcastle!)

Anyway, Matt Bevan's series America "If you're listening" - is fast becoming one of our neighbourhoods favourite world news updates.
It's a deep dive into various topics - and goes for about 15 to 20 minutes.
Now that Trump's back - he's zoned back in on America after doing a bit of a world tour last year.

This episode - Putin's dream!
(AKA - Yalta 2.0).

The evidence is piling up!

 

[eclipsenow]

That is the bear minimum to expect from any politician.

Ha ha ha - it's like they've become so used to surreal word-salads and a scruffy mullet hair mop that looks like fairy floss in a tornado, that when someone arrives dressed smart and - they can actually speak in coherent sentences - it's like "Woah - I didn't know that could happen!"

 

[Always in His Presence]

Yeah we do. We consider him a bad person.

No - they do not - the EU is a microcosm of the US when it comes to the President - some hate him - they are the loudest - and some do not. But there is not one nation that would turn him away because of the influence and power he has globally.

That is the bear minimum to expect from any politician.

With the new VP we are experiencing something more than the bare minimum. And no word salads....

 

[Larniavc]

But there is not one nation that would turn him away because of the influence and power he has globally.

Doesn't mean they can't stand him. When he's spoken on the world stage other world leaders laugh at him openly.

 

[eclipsenow]

EU is a microcosm of the US

Eeewww! Please don't say anything that offensive ever again!

President Trump does not seem to notice or care that if you betray people, or jerk them around, they will revile you. Over the last few weeks, the Europeans have gone from shock to bewilderment to revulsion. This period was for them what 9/11 was for us — the stripping away of illusions, the exposure of an existential threat. The Europeans have realized that America, the nation they thought was their friend, is actually a rogue superpower.

In Canada and Mexico you now win popularity by treating America as your foe. Over the next few years, I predict, Trump will cut a deal with China, doing to Taiwan some version of what he has already done to Ukraine — betray the little guy to suck up to the big guy. Nations across Asia will come to the same conclusion the Europeans have already reached: America is a Judas.

Opinion | It Isn’t Just Trump. America’s Whole Reputation Is Shot.

What happens when a superpower goes rogue.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Always in His Presence]

Doesn't mean they can't stand him. When he's spoken on the world stage other world leaders laugh at him openly.

uh huh - but they listen and follow his lead - you suppose they are laughing when they write the checks?

And BTW - what does this have to do in regards to having a VP who is intelligent, speaks well and is cogent?

Are you looking for him to be President in 2028?

 

[Larniavc]

uh huh - but they listen and follow his lead - you suppose they are laughing when they write the checks?

A rich, powerful buffoon who needs to be treated with kid gloves in case he has a tanty.

 

[eclipsenow]

A rich, powerful buffoon who needs to be treated with kid gloves in case he has a tanty.

I can't wait for when Trump the economic feedback loops of all his crazy tariffs and shooting his own military in the foot start to come home to roost. I really think in decades to come historians, sociologists, and psychiatrists will be called on for massive conferences to analyse what on earth happened, and how can future government stop something this dumb and dangerous happening ever again?

I mean - I love democracy's checks and balances. Let's keep them. I'm just talking about a different method of selecting politicians. I think after the last American election I'm finally convinced that Sortition is safer! That's about having a viable pool of citizens and then selecting them BY LOTTERY!

It sounds crazy if you've never heard of it before - but it's still representation of the people, by the people, for the people - but through chance not voting. Some serious thought has been put into this! I mean - we already use Sortition for jury selection - and juries get to decide someone's guilt or innocence. Would it work and be fair?

"Andranik Tangian critiques electoral politics as over-representing politically active people and groups in a society.[32][18] Cognitive diversity (or wisdom of the crowd) utilizes a variety of perspectives and cognitive skills to find better solutions.[33] According to numerous scholars such as Page and Landemore,[34] this diversity is more important to creating successful ideas than the average ability level of a group. Page argues that random selection of persons of average intelligence perform better than a collection of the best individual problem solvers.[35] This "diversity trumps ability theorem"[36] is central to the arguments for sortition.[34]"

Sortition - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

First - to prepare highschoolers should be educated in civics and practice Parliamentary debate rules (or at least have to watch the debate team doing it).

Then - because I'm so utterly disgusted by some of the dumb things said and done in the last election - I would actually propose something very undemocratic sounding. I would limit it to those who actually completed a University degree! People need to value education - not have a President close the Department of Education!

THEN:-

1. IF you have a University Degree,
2. and are of sound mind and good health,
3. and are in a life situation where you can be called on to serve for 4 years,
4. (And 4 years only!)
5. and are agreeable,
6. and sign various statutory declarations not to seek employment in any industries you might be investigating or favour through legislation,
7. you can put your name in the Parliamentary lottery.

They would be surrounded by public servants guiding them through the ropes and red tape of the machinery of government. Unlike today's politicians, they would not have to go through an exhausting, compromising election process that often leaves them relying on Big Oil or Tobacco or other bad faith lobbyists. I'm imagining the whole thing has a chance of being less corrupt!

It's still rule of the people by the people for the people - just defined a little differently.

Trump's election has me siding with Aristotle - and I have battled this kind of cynicism for decades!
But Trump coming back broke me.

"A democracy is a government in the hands of men of low birth, no property, and vulgar employments."

—Aristotle, Politics (Book IV, Part 4)

In modern terms he's discussing "Really? You want the proud boys that believe 2020 was rigged running the country?"

(I was trying to be funny - but then I remembered who is running the FBI and DOJ! Now I'm more convinced than ever! Sortition! This is the way!)

 

[Always in His Presence]

Then - because I'm so utterly disgusted by some of the dumb things said and done in the last election - I would actually propose something very undemocratic sounding. I would limit it to those who actually completed a University degree!

Thank goodness the US has progressed well beyond what you are describing in the above diatribe from the very beginning.

VP Vance is a great example of the American Dream - the greatest country on earth where a poor country boy can work hard and ascend to the second highest office in the country -(and hopefully the highest at some point). In the US EVERYONES vote is of equal value regardless of sex, race, creed or even education level. There is no room for elitism.

 

[Helmut-WK]

Helmut - I hope this isn't offensive - but I found it funny. (My comments below.)

The post is somewhat offensive. The West does not want to march through Poland to defense Russia, NATO wants to be in Poland (and the Baltic) so it can defend those countries when the Russian army marches in.

IF it ends up with NATO against Russia - it was probably inevitable

Putin started the 2022 invasion and justified it that he did not want the Ukraine to become NATO member. he never concealed that the indirect target of that war was NATO.

But if they push the big red button - oh my oh my!

Do speak of Trump? Putin is too rational to do that. According to the threats he issued in 2022, he should have put the red button several times by now he didn't.

Putin has other ways. Disinformation to influence the public opinion (and Musk et. al. did next to nothing to stop that, only when required by law). Blowing up existing internal conflicts to neutralize a county, or even to overturn the government (the Caucasus shows some examples, he will surely try something in Serbia or the Baltic States, and if he got lePen elected in France, this would be an achievement almost as big as the election of Trump …).

 

[The Liturgist]

One thing that was deeply ironic was the senior German government minister who responded to Vance’s eloquent remarks criticizing Europe for its recent failure in terms of defending freedom of speech and freedom of expression by saying “He had no right to say that!” It literally proved Vance’s point.

I would have expected a response to criticism of Europe on the issue of free speech to be met with denial, but instead, saying that the person making the criticism of free speech had no right to do so is shocking and deeply disturbing.

The US needs to pressure countries into adopting full First Amendment freedoms. The First Amendment with its guarantee of religious freedom and freedom of expression, is one of the greatest gifts that God has given this country through moving the Founding Fathers to adopt such a policy.

 

[eclipsenow]

The post is somewhat offensive.

I'm sorry

The West does not want to march through Poland to defense Russia, NATO wants to be in Poland (and the Baltic) so it can defend those countries when the Russian army marches in.

Absolutely!

Putin started the 2022 invasion and justified it that he did not want the Ukraine to become NATO member. he never concealed that the indirect target of that war was NATO.

Do speak of Trump? Putin is too rational to do that. According to the threats he issued in 2022, he should have put the red button several times by now he didn't.

Putin has other ways. Disinformation to influence the public opinion (and Musk et. al. did next to nothing to stop that, only when required by law). Blowing up existing internal conflicts to neutralize a county, or even to overturn the government (the Caucasus shows some examples, he will surely try something in Serbia or the Baltic States, and if he got lePen elected in France, this would be an achievement almost as big as the election of Trump …).

Agreed - it's a great big complicated world that Trump has just lobbed a geo-political grenade into because he the world as one of his failing real estate cons.

 

[The Liturgist]

"A democracy is a government in the hands of men of low birth, no property, and vulgar employments."

In the Christian faith there is no such thing as men of low birth, since all are created in the image of God.

 

[eclipsenow]

One thing that was deeply ironic was the senior German government minister who responded to Vance’s eloquent remarks criticizing Europe for its recent failure in terms of defending freedom of speech and freedom of expression by saying “He had no right to say that!” It literally proved Vance’s point.

I would have expected a response to criticism of Europe on the issue of free speech to be met with denial, but instead, saying that the person making the criticism of free speech had no right to do so is shocking and deeply disturbing.

In another time and place - he has a right to say whatever he wants.

As an invited head of state to the European Munich summit - he was there to discuss European security.
Instead he tells Germany how to run their internal domestic politics? I don't know what you know about geopolitics - but that's not 'free speech' - that's meddling in domestic affairs.

EG: Should Zalenskyy have walked into the Oval Office, not made eye contact with Vance, and TOLD Trump to work with Kamala - and nationalise your healthcare to save money to boot?

Cause that's basically what Vance did in Europe.

 

[Helmut-WK]

Always in His Presence said:
»It was refreshing to hear a VP with a strong voice, who obviously prepared for the speech and very eloquently addressed the facts without wavering.«

That is the bear minimum to expect from any politician.

Well, every politician (even the worst one) addressed the facts. The crucial point is which facts he addresses - and which facts he does not address.

Vance addressed some shortcomings regarding freedom of speech in Europe, yes.
He addressed not the much bigger shortcomings of freedom of speech on X (aka twitter). Anything critical on Musk vanishes shortly. The EU law does not only aims to block disinformation and fake news, it also is an attempt to force X to repost deleted posts if there is no valid reason for deleting.
He addressed not the violations of freedom of speech in Russia. Even holding a white sheet of paper may be enough to be imprisoned there … Vance rather wants the party which shows sympathy for Russia to be part of the German government.

He was unwavering anti-EU and pro-Russian. You can see it by the topics he mentionened - and by the topics he did not mention.

 

[The Liturgist]

The post is somewhat offensive. The West does not want to march through Poland to defense Russia, NATO wants to be in Poland (and the Baltic) so it can defend those countries when the Russian army marches in.

This kind of argument is spectacularly dangerous, because it ignores the grim reality of the Russian nuclear arsenal. We cannot treat Russia the way we treat a petty dictatorship. Countries such as Russia, the People’s Republic of China, India, Pakistan, and the US, and to a lesser extent Britain, France, Israel and North Korea, which have nuclear deterrents, cannot be provoked into a situation where they might be tempted to use them.

Since Communist China continues to establish itself as an economic and political threat to freedom in every continent in the world, with the benevolent policies of the likes of Hu Jintao being abandoned by the current dictator, it is in the best interests of NATO to make peace with the Russians and to create a wedge between Russia and China, as we did during the Cold War by exploiting the Sino-Soviet split to establish relations with the PRC. Now, the reverse is needed, since the PRC has grown too powerful.

The US by the way can be equally destructive in geopolitical terms. Every country with nuclear weapons has the ability to act with impunity to a certain extent owing to their ability to inflict incredible casualties on opponents. This is a moral criticism against nuclear weapons in general, but unfortunately the genie is out of the bottle as it were, and military doctrine that rests upon the idea of fighting a conventional war with a nuclear adversary runs the risk of terrible things happening.

This is why the Cold War was primarily fought with proxy wars, since it was understood direct military confrontation was simply too dangerous. But Ukraine likewise is too dangerous, since it is a proxy war on Russia’s doorstep.

We are in a situation like the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962, yet few people seem to be aware of the actual danger. The risk of nuclear war did not end in 1991.