Are we born again by loving God and others? Please share scriptures and thoughts. Thank you.

[Bro.T]

Are we born again by loving God and others?

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

This verse is talking more about the spirit that is within a person, let us love one another for love is of God and everyone who loves is born of God. So if you have the spirit of love in your heart or as a person, that is of God, and then you would do those things that love requires a person to do. Let's take a look at the next verses. 8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

This versus not referring to being born again, being born again is a change in the body not mind.

Now Paul says in Romans 12: 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his. Stop committing fornication.

This is true love, and if obeyed how much better would our world be? This is why Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; and loving your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:35-40). These two commandments are the foundation of the entire law. Many reject the law, but it is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12) even today.

 

[Dan Perez]

This verse is talking more about the spirit that is within a person, let us love one another for love is of God and everyone who loves is born of God. So if you have the spirit of love in your heart or as a person, that is of God, and then you would do those things that love requires a person to do. Let's take a look at the next verses. 8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

This versus not referring to being born again, being born again is a change in the body not mind.

Now Paul says in Romans 12: 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his. Stop committing fornication.

This is true love, and if obeyed how much better would our world be? This is why Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; and loving your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:35-40). These two commandments are the foundation of the entire law. Many reject the law, but it is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12) even today.

And how do you believe 1 John 5:18 , We know that whosoever is BORN of God sinneth NOT //OV , which is a

DISJUNCAIVE PARICLE NEGATIVE , and means anyone who says he is BORN OF God will never SINNNNNNNN ever again !!

your thoughts ??

dan p

 

[Bro.T]

And how do you believe 1 John 5:18 , We know that whosoever is BORN of God sinneth NOT //OV , which is a

DISJUNCAIVE PARICLE NEGATIVE , and means anyone who says he is BORN OF God will never SINNNNNNNN ever again !!

your thoughts ??

dan p

Let me show you the first resurrection with all the Saints meet the lord (Jesus) in the air and come back to the Earth. Keep in mind this is when you are born again when you come back from the resurrection of life like Jesus did then you would be born again into the God family.

Let’s go into 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

If you sleep in Jesus it means you have done his will.

Lets keep reading and see how Jesus bring the saints with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

This verse just told us that some will be alive to be in this first resurrection, the coming of Jesus, and there are those who will be asleep. Notice they asleep and not in heaven chilling and watching over people, smiling at all this hell going on.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Notice: Only the dead in Christ will rise first, but the Lord has descended...meaning coming down

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Notice those that were asleep or dead rise first, then those which are alive and remain rise next, to meet the Lord in the air, and altogether we come up in the first resurrection.

Paul also said in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints. So let's see where Paul got this from.
We see that being born again will happen at the last trump and we will be change from corruptible to incorruption. Also we learned a mystery and that's all will not die, but will be changed.

Paul says in Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

And when will this take place?

Paul say in I Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

At the last trump, and not a moment before. This is when you Born again and cannot sin.

 

[1Tonne]

Let me show you the first resurrection with all the Saints meet the lord (Jesus) in the air and come back to the Earth. Keep in mind this is when you are born again when you come back from the resurrection of life like Jesus did then you would be born again into the God family.

Let’s go into 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

If you sleep in Jesus it means you have done his will.

Just a note: During the time Thessalonians was written, believers were being persecuted. They were being killed and many did not know if they would rise again. So, people who were alive were worried about what would happen to those martyrs.
The first resurrection is mentioned in Rev 20:4-6. It says that those who have given their lives for the testimony of Jesus, are the ones who come back with Him in the first resurrection. No one else. So, no other believer who is alive and no other believer who has died. Only the martyrs.
I believe in 1 Thessalonians 4, that when it speaks of "those that sleep in Him" and, "dead in Christ," this is the martyrs.
So, the dead in Christ will rise first and reign for 1000 years. Then we who are alive at the end (the last day) will be taken up to meet with the Lord in the air.

 

[Bro.T]

Just a note: During the time Thessalonians was written, believers were being persecuted. They were being killed and many did not know if they would rise again. So, people who were alive were worried about what would happen to those martyrs.
The first resurrection is mentioned in Rev 20:4-6. It says that those who have given their lives for the testimony of Jesus, are the ones who come back with Him in the first resurrection. No one else. So, no other believer who is alive and no other believer who has died. Only the martyrs.
I believe in 1 Thessalonians 4, that when it speaks of "those that sleep in Him" and, "dead in Christ," this is the martyrs.
So, the dead in Christ will rise first and reign for 1000 years. Then we who are alive at the end (the last day) will be taken up to meet with the Lord in the air.

No, you have your time frame mix up. Paul say in 1 Corinthians 15: 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Let’s take a look at Jesus coming in Matthew 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Now all this will start after the great tribulation. So if you live through the great tribulation, you will change and if you sleep in christ, you will raise and change. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Corinthians 15: 51, 52) These are only the saints. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (Revelation 14:12)

Notice.....all this is happening at the last trump, the seventh trumpet.

Let’s go and take a look at the company the Lord will have with at his second coming. Let’s go into 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

If you sleep in Jesus it means you have done his will.

Lets keep reading and see how Jesus bring the saints with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

This verse just told us that some will be alive to be in this first resurrection, the coming of Jesus, and there are those who will be asleep. Notice they asleep and not in heaven chilling and watching over people, smiling at all this hell going on.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Notice: Only the dead in Christ will rise first, but the Lord has descended...meaning coming down

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Notice those that were asleep or dead rise first, then those which are alive and remain rise next, to meet the Lord in the air, and altogether we come up in the first resurrection.

Paul also said in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

So let's see where Paul got this from.

Let's go into Zechariah 14: 1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

We see how the word of God lines up from Old to New Testament. The Saints are coming with Jesus to fight.

9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. 11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited. 12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. 16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

Let's continue, because the apostles knew where Jesus was going to be when he return.

Lets go into Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. 9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. 12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

Let's now go into Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Let's go to Revelation 5: 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. 11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 12 saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. 13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

So we see after the great tribulation the Lord is going to come back with all his saints and fight those nations to on the Earth. There's a lot more to add but I hope you see the order.

 

[1Tonne]

Now all this will start after the great tribulation. So if you live through the great tribulation, you will change and if you sleep in christ, you will raise and change. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Corinthians 15: 51, 52) These are only the saints. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (Revelation 14:12)

So, are you saying that after the tribulation, all believers are raised and then reign with Him for 1000 years?

 

[Bro.T]

So, are you saying that after the tribulation, all believers are raised and then reign with Him for 1000 years?

That's what the Bible say. Let's take a quick look at Matthew 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The elect are the Saints, which you call believer. But let's see who else is coming in Matthew 25: 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Now lets continue from Matthew 24 when Jesus talks about the stars, and moon, etc. Lets go into Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

See this is the time when all those movies that came out talking about the aliens coming, because if you still on earth you will be able to see God and the lamb sitting on the throne, before Jesus descend.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

When a person ask for the rocks to fall on them they know they report card is not good at all. But maybe some of them could of ask for mercy, or repented, like that thief on the cross.

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. (Revelation 1:7) Always like to say this is a up side down feeling, cause people suppose to be happy to see the Lord, but not in this case.

 

[1Tonne]

That's what the Bible say. Let's take a quick look at Matthew 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus says several times that believers are raised on the last day. Also, the disciples believed that we are raised on the last day. And we know that the last day is the day of judgment. This is where Jesus judges the world at the GWT judgement. So, martyrs are raised early (Rev 20), but the rest of the believers are raised on the last day.

• John 6:39 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day.
• John 6:40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.
• John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
• John 6:54 The one who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
• John 11:24 Martha *said to Him, “I know that he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.”
• Daniel 12:1-2 .....at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. (The books are opened at the GWT judgement. So, the last day)

It's pretty clear that believers are raised on the last day and not before. The only people who return with Christ to reign for 1000 years are those who have been martyred, for their witness of Jesus and for the word of God and they did not worship the beast or his image. (Rev 20).
In Revelation, we see many times that the martyrs are already in heaven. They have white robes. There is no mention of any other people already being in heaven.
The verse that you have mentioned is Matthew 24:29-31. It talks about how when Jesus returns the angels gather those who are already in heaven. It says, "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." So, the angels gather everyone from the four corners of heaven. They are not gathering everyone from the four corners of the earth. So, they gather the martyrs

So, how do you account for what Jesus said, that believers would be raised on the last day?

 

[Bro.T]

Jesus says several times that believers are raised on the last day. Also, the disciples believed that we are raised on the last day. And we know that the last day is the day of judgment. This is where Jesus judges the world at the GWT judgement. So, martyrs are raised early (Rev 20), but the rest of the believers are raised on the last day.

• John 6:39 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day.
• John 6:40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.
• John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
• John 6:54 The one who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
• John 11:24 Martha *said to Him, “I know that he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.”
• Daniel 12:1-2 .....at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. (The books are opened at the GWT judgement. So, the last day)

It's pretty clear that believers are raised on the last day and not before. The only people who return with Christ to reign for 1000 years are those who have been martyred, for their witness of Jesus and for the word of God and they did not worship the beast or his image. (Rev 20).
In Revelation, we see many times that the martyrs are already in heaven. They have white robes. There is no mention of any other people already being in heaven.
The verse that you have mentioned is Matthew 24:29-31. It talks about how when Jesus returns the angels gather those who are already in heaven. It says, "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." So, the angels gather everyone from the four corners of heaven. They are not gathering everyone from the four corners of the earth. So, they gather the martyrs

So, how do you account for what Jesus said, that believers would be raised on the last day?

The word of God talks about two resurrections even in Revelation the 20th chapter which we will take a look at, because it shows you both Resurrections, let's take a look at that in Revelation 20:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

So we see that there is a first resurrection, so if there is a first then of course there's a second resurrection. But this first resurrection is for the Saints, all this is happening at the seventh trumpet. Remember we read in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12).

Now we are going to take a look at the second resurrection but keep in mind, this a thousand years later, also when you read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and you read about the resurrection you have to put in order which Resurrection the Bible is talking about, whether is talking about the first resurrection or whether it's talking about the second. But we're gonna take a look at the second resurrection now in Revelation 20: 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So in conclusion the Bible talks about two resurrection and they are 1000 year apart from each other, so when you read the Bible, again you have to put in order which resurrection the Bible is speaking about. Either it will be those who are Saints, who keep the commandment and faith of God, or it will be the white throne judgment. For example you quoted Daniel 12: 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. This one is the white throne Judgement, second resurrection.

Let's take a look at an example of the first resurrection. Let's go to Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? 11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: 12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

What does Job mean by this statement, "Till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Let's take a look at this for a moment. Listen carefully to Peter. II Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Look at the statement Peter made, "in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise". If the "heavens" shall pass away, going to the third heaven is a myth. Peter says it again. II Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?. When Job said, "So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep,” he knew exactly what he was talking about.

Notice something else, "they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.” When will they awake? I Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. At the last trump the dead or those asleep shall be raised.

 

[1Tonne]

The word of God talks about two resurrections even in Revelation the 20th chapter which we will take a look at, because it shows you both Resurrections, let's take a look at that in Revelation 20:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

So we see that there is a first resurrection, so if there is a first then of course there's a second resurrection. But this first resurrection is for the Saints, all this is happening at the seventh trumpet. Remember we read in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12).

Now we are going to take a look at the second resurrection but keep in mind, this a thousand years later, also when you read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and you read about the resurrection you have to put in order which Resurrection the Bible is talking about, whether is talking about the first resurrection or whether it's talking about the second. But we're gonna take a look at the second resurrection now in Revelation 20: 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So in conclusion the Bible talks about two resurrection and they are 1000 year apart from each other, so when you read the Bible, again you have to put in order which resurrection the Bible is speaking about. Either it will be those who are Saints, who keep the commandment and faith of God, or it will be the white throne judgment. For example you quoted Daniel 12: 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. This one is the white throne Judgement, second resurrection.

Let's take a look at an example of the first resurrection. Let's go to Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? 11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: 12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

What does Job mean by this statement, "Till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Let's take a look at this for a moment. Listen carefully to Peter. II Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Look at the statement Peter made, "in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise". If the "heavens" shall pass away, going to the third heaven is a myth. Peter says it again. II Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?. When Job said, "So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep,” he knew exactly what he was talking about.

Notice something else, "they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.” When will they awake? I Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. At the last trump the dead or those asleep shall be raised.

So, you never really answered the question. How do you account for what Jesus said, that believers would be raised on the last day? You have not really explained. The last day is the final day. It leads to the GWT judgement.

 

[Bro.T]

So, you never really answered the question. How do you account for what Jesus said, that believers would be raised on the last day? You have not really explained. The last day is the final day. It leads to the GWT judgement.

Well actually I answers within my last post, I said when you read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and it talks about the resurrection you have to put which Resurrection is the first or the second. So you must be saying to me that you don't know which resurrection Jesus talking about when he said, the believers will be raise on the last day, that's what you're really saying, if you read my last post or just can't understand any of it for what ever reason. That's the first resurrection Jesus is talking about and that last day is on the seventh trumpet.

Let’s go and take a look at the believers or Saints the Lord will have with at his second coming. Let’s go into 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

If you sleep in Jesus it means you have done his will.

Lets keep reading and see how Jesus bring the saints with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

This verse just told us that some will be alive to be in this first resurrection, the coming of Jesus, and there are those who will be asleep. Notice they asleep and not in heaven chilling and watching over people, smiling at all this hell going on.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Notice: Only the dead in Christ will rise first, but the Lord has descended...meaning coming down

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Notice those that were asleep or dead rise first, then those which are alive and remain rise next, to meet the Lord in the air, and altogether we come up in the first resurrection.

Again Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand. And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. 6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound. (Revelation 8:1-6)

So now, the seventh seal is open and its time to blow the seventh trumpet. Lets go into Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Lets go into 1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[1Tonne]

Well actually I answers within my last post, I said when you read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and it talks about the resurrection you have to put which Resurrection is the first or the second. So you must be saying to me that you don't know which resurrection Jesus talking about when he said, the believers will be raise on the last day, that's what you're really saying, if you read my last post or just can't understand any of it for what ever reason. That's the first resurrection Jesus is talking about and that last day is on the seventh trumpet.

The first resurrection is not the last day. It is 1000 years before the last day. In Revelation 20:4-6 it says that the martyrs are raised, and they then reign for 1000 years before the last day. It also says that the rest of the people who are in their graves are not raised. So, the only people who are raised in the first resurrection are those that died for their faith. And that means that we who are not killed wait in the grave until the end. Then we are raised in the second resurrection.
I read Revelation 20:4-6 as literal. There is no need to make it figurative and include every believer when it states that this is not every believer. If we take it as figurative, then we are putting our own meaning onto the text.

Let’s go and take a look at the believers or Saints the Lord will have with at his second coming. Let’s go into 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

If you sleep in Jesus it means you have done his will.

Lets keep reading and see how Jesus bring the saints with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

This verse just told us that some will be alive to be in this first resurrection, the coming of Jesus, and there are those who will be asleep. Notice they asleep and not in heaven chilling and watching over people, smiling at all this hell going on.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Notice: Only the dead in Christ will rise first, but the Lord has descended...meaning coming down

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Notice those that were asleep or dead rise first, then those which are alive and remain rise next, to meet the Lord in the air, and altogether we come up in the first resurrection.

I believe that you are reading your own understanding of this text. Many people do as this is what has been handed down by people who believe in the rapture theory.
"13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words."

When Thessalonians was written, Christians were being persecuted, and believers were worried about what would happen to those that were killed for their faith. The Martyrs. So, verses 13 and 14 are simply saying that those people who were martyred, fallen asleep will return with Jesus. Now we know from Revelation 20:4 that when they do return, they reign for 1000 years.
Then in verse 15, it says those who are alive will by no means be raised until the martyrs have been.
Verse 16 then reiterates that when Christ returns, the dead in Christ, this is the martyrs, are raised first, and then they reign for 1000 years.
Lastly, verse 17 says that we who are alive on the last day will be caught up in the clouds to meet with the Lord in the air. Thus we will be with Him forever.
So, the only people who are raised beforehand in the first resurrection are the martyrs. We are raised on the last day.

This also aligns with Matthew 24:29-31.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
In Revelation, we see several times that the only people who are in heaven are the martyrs. They are given white robes. There are no other believers in heaven.
Then we see here in Matthew 24:31 that Jesus sends His angels to the 4 corners of heaven to gather His elect, the martyrs. The angels do not gather the elect from the for corners of the earth. It is from heaven.

So, only the martyrs are raised first.

Lets go into 1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

This verse is speaking of the last day when all people will face the great white throne judgement. This is believers and non-believers, dead and alive who will be judged. We will all be changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye. Just like in the Sheep and Goats judgement. We will all be gathered at the same time and then judged and separated. This is on the last day.

This lines up fully with what Jesus said. Believers will be raised on the last day. Not 1000 years before the last day.

 

[Bro.T]

The first resurrection is not the last day. It is 1000 years before the last day. In Revelation 20:4-6 it says that the martyrs are raised, and they then reign for 1000 years before the last day. It also says that the rest of the people who are in their graves are not raised. So, the only people who are raised in the first resurrection are those that died for their faith. And that means that we who are not killed wait in the grave until the end. Then we are raised in the second resurrection.
I read Revelation 20:4-6 as literal. There is no need to make it figurative and include every believer when it states that this is not every believer. If we take it as figurative, then we are putting our own meaning onto the text.


I believe that you are reading your own understanding of this text. Many people do as this is what has been handed down by people who believe in the rapture theory.
"13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words."

When Thessalonians was written, Christians were being persecuted, and believers were worried about what would happen to those that were killed for their faith. The Martyrs. So, verses 13 and 14 are simply saying that those people who were martyred, fallen asleep will return with Jesus. Now we know from Revelation 20:4 that when they do return, they reign for 1000 years.
Then in verse 15, it says those who are alive will by no means be raised until the martyrs have been.
Verse 16 then reiterates that when Christ returns, the dead in Christ, this is the martyrs, are raised first, and then they reign for 1000 years.
Lastly, verse 17 says that we who are alive on the last day will be caught up in the clouds to meet with the Lord in the air. Thus we will be with Him forever.
So, the only people who are raised beforehand in the first resurrection are the martyrs. We are raised on the last day.

This also aligns with Matthew 24:29-31.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
In Revelation, we see several times that the only people who are in heaven are the martyrs. They are given white robes. There are no other believers in heaven.
Then we see here in Matthew 24:31 that Jesus sends His angels to the 4 corners of heaven to gather His elect, the martyrs. The angels do not gather the elect from the for corners of the earth. It is from heaven.

So, only the martyrs are raised first.


This verse is speaking of the last day when all people will face the great white throne judgement. This is believers and non-believers, dead and alive who will be judged. We will all be changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye. Just like in the Sheep and Goats judgement. We will all be gathered at the same time and then judged and separated. This is on the last day.

This lines up fully with what Jesus said. Believers will be raised on the last day. Not 1000 years before the last day.

Well, I believe that concludes our fellowship on this particular topic...... peace in Jesus name.

 

[1Tonne]

Well, I believe that concludes our fellowship on this particular topic...... peace in Jesus name.

I was not meaning to offend. I was just posting this in the hope that it may make you think about your view. There are many views on end times, and it is hard to not get fixated on one view. I have changed my view over the years, as I used to believe in the rapture. But as I have read scripture, I have found that many things that I used to read as figurative actually make sense if we read them as literal. So, when it comes to Rev 20:4-6, I read it as literally as possible and then when I look at 1 Thes 4, I can then understand who the dead in Christ are.
Blessings

 

[Bro.T]

I was not meaning to offend. I was just posting this in the hope that it may make you think about your view. There are many views on end times, and it is hard to not get fixated on one view. I have changed my view over the years, as I used to believe in the rapture. But as I have read scripture, I have found that many things that I used to read as figurative actually make sense if we read them as literal. So, when it comes to Rev 20:4-6, I read it as literally as possible and then when I look at 1 Thes 4, I can then understand who the dead in Christ are.
Blessings

Well.....it looks like you are confidence in what you believe and I am confident in what I believe. I'm not sure what is it that you did not understand of what I post concerning the conversation, but I can't force people to believe or see things, only the Holy Spirit and or God (Jesus). In the scriptures it says in Isaiah 8: 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. That's why I took you to 1 Thes 4th Chtp 13-16 and showed you Zachariah 14 chapter, the continuation of the testimony and the scriptures (law), showing Jesus coming down with the Saints. But no worries the book say we have to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).

peace in Jesus name

 

[FredVB]

1 John 4:7 everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

There is not spiritual love without being born of God and knowing God. So spiritual love is not a way to be born of God, or to be saved. The gospel of salvation shows it is God saving any with their repentant faith to to turn from life with sins to be restored to God, with Christ who was sent doing all that makes it possible. Then, spiritual love becomes possible, though from growth in those really saved, and it is just from those born of God who know God, it is with fruit of the Spirit that is growing.

I was not meaning to offend. I was just posting this in the hope that it may make you think about your view. There are many views on end times, and it is hard to not get fixated on one view. I have changed my view over the years, as I used to believe in the rapture. But as I have read scripture, I have found that many things that I used to read as figurative actually make sense if we read them as literal. So, when it comes to Rev 20:4-6, I read it as literally as possible and then when I look at 1 Thes 4, I can then understand who the dead in Christ are.
Blessings

There are many eschatological views, they are all from fallible humans and will basically be wrong where there are mistakes. I have changed from previous views too.

I think many, very many, are missing the signs that collapse will come the soonest. I do see how this fits into eschatological sequence that works. But here I think it off topic to explain.

I do see the commandments are important for us.

 

[Dan Perez]

Let me show you the first resurrection with all the Saints meet the lord (Jesus) in the air and come back to the Earth. Keep in mind this is when you are born again when you come back from the resurrection of life like Jesus did then you would be born again into the God family.

Let’s go into 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

If you sleep in Jesus it means you have done his will.

Lets keep reading and see how Jesus bring the saints with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

This verse just told us that some will be alive to be in this first resurrection, the coming of Jesus, and there are those who will be asleep. Notice they asleep and not in heaven chilling and watching over people, smiling at all this hell going on.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Notice: Only the dead in Christ will rise first, but the Lord has descended...meaning coming down

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Notice those that were asleep or dead rise first, then those which are alive and remain rise next, to meet the Lord in the air, and altogether we come up in the first resurrection.

Paul also said in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints. So let's see where Paul got this from.
We see that being born again will happen at the last trump and we will be change from corruptible to incorruption. Also we learned a mystery and that's all will not die, but will be changed.

Paul says in Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

And when will this take place?

Paul say in I Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

At the last trump, and not a moment before. This is when you Born again and cannot sin.

And you did not address 1 JOHN

Let me show you the first resurrection with all the Saints meet the lord (Jesus) in the air and come back to the Earth. Keep in mind this is when you are born again when you come back from the resurrection of life like Jesus did then you would be born again into the God family.

Let’s go into 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

If you sleep in Jesus it means you have done his will.

Lets keep reading and see how Jesus bring the saints with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

This verse just told us that some will be alive to be in this first resurrection, the coming of Jesus, and there are those who will be asleep. Notice they asleep and not in heaven chilling and watching over people, smiling at all this hell going on.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Notice: Only the dead in Christ will rise first, but the Lord has descended...meaning coming down

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Notice those that were asleep or dead rise first, then those which are alive and remain rise next, to meet the Lord in the air, and altogether we come up in the first resurrection.

Paul also said in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints. So let's see where Paul got this from.
We see that being born again will happen at the last trump and we will be change from corruptible to incorruption. Also we learned a mystery and that's all will not die, but will be changed.

Paul says in Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

And when will this take place?

Paul say in I Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

At the last trump, and not a moment before. This is when you Born again and cannot sin.

And notice that you never . addressed 1 Jhon 5:18 ??

# 1 Is 1 JOHN 5:18 speaking to. us today. ??

# 2 Or when do you believe it will ??

dan p

 

[Bro.T]

And you did not address 1 JOHN

And notice that you never . addressed 1 Jhon 5:18 ??

# 1 Is 1 JOHN 5:18 speaking to. us today. ??

# 2 Or when do you believe it will ??

dan p

Please in the future post the verses! 1 John 5: 18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. This is speaking of the first resurrection, remember Pauls says for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3). When you born of God, you are born again, and this happened at the first resurrection let's take a look at an example.

1 Peter 1: 23 being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For All flesh is as grass, And all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

Notice how Peter shifts the conversation and compares us to grass and flower, because it dies and we died. The word of God never dies, but Peter had to make this comparison with flesh and grass, so people can understand the difference of what he's' talking about. When we born again, we can't die anymore, we not of the flesh anymore. Right now our minds are in the spirit of God, if we walk in his word and keep his Commandment, Statues and Judgements. But we live in the flesh. We are of the corruptible seed, flesh! Paul says in Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Let's take a look at a few more verse showing He is the only one that has truly been born again.

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Take a look at the 12th verse. It states, "The ones that received him he gave them power to become the sons of God.” Remember that you will only become a Son of God if you follow His word. Look at the 14th verse. Notice it says he is the only begotten of the Father.

What does only mean? If He is the only one born of God how can anyone make the statement they are born again. Only means only. If you are born of God you will not be able to sin any longer. Read this carefully in I John.

I John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Can anyone say they commit no sin? No! If you are born (born again) into the God family you must be a spirit being.

 

[Dan Perez]

Let me show you the first resurrection with all the Saints meet the lord (Jesus) in the air and come back to the Earth. Keep in mind this is when you are born again when you come back from the resurrection of life like Jesus did then you would be born again into the God family.

Let’s go into 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

If you sleep in Jesus it means you have done his will.

Lets keep reading and see how Jesus bring the saints with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

This verse just told us that some will be alive to be in this first resurrection, the coming of Jesus, and there are those who will be asleep. Notice they asleep and not in heaven chilling and watching over people, smiling at all this hell going on.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Notice: Only the dead in Christ will rise first, but the Lord has descended...meaning coming down

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Notice those that were asleep or dead rise first, then those which are alive and remain rise next, to meet the Lord in the air, and altogether we come up in the first resurrection.

Paul also said in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints. So let's see where Paul got this from.
We see that being born again will happen at the last trump and we will be change from corruptible to incorruption. Also we learned a mystery and that's all will not die, but will be changed.

Paul says in Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

And when will this take place?

Paul say in I Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

At the last trump, and not a moment before. This is when you Born again and cannot sin.

And you did not explain 1 John 5:18 ??

But I. like. when any one quotes the apostle to. the Gentiles !!

And here I believe it means that Paul. did not write 1 John 5:18. and this will only during. the GREAT TRIBULATION

and not until THEN and 1. jOHN was not written. to the BODY. of Christ !!
dan p

 

[Bro.T]

And you did not explain 1 John 5:18 ??

But I. like. when any one quotes the apostle to. the Gentiles !!

And here I believe it means that Paul. did not write 1 John 5:18. and this will only during. the GREAT TRIBULATION

and not until THEN and 1. jOHN was bot written. to the BODY. of Christ !!
dan p

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. This is talking about the first resurrection and those who after the white throne judgement. Only then you can't sin no more.

Let's take a look at Jesus for an example of born of God, and of we know Jesus did no sin. But let's read that in 1 Peter 2: 21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

Let's go to John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Take a look at the 12th verse. It states, "The ones that received him he gave them power to become the sons of God.” Remember that you will only become a Son of God if you follow His word. Look at the 14th verse. Notice it says he is the only begotten of the Father.

What does only mean? If He (Jesus) is the only one born of God how can anyone make the statement they are born again. Only means only. If you are born of God you will not be able to sin any longer. Read this carefully in I John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Can anyone say they commit no sin? No! If you are born (born again) into the God family you must be a spirit being. Here is another verse stating Jesus is the only begotten son.


So when Jesus died and born again he had a different Body and can do other things like pop up from nowhere, etc. Look at what 1 Peter says in Ch 1: 23 being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. Paul confirm what Peter says the same thing in 1 Corthinan 15: 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Let's go into Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. 28 And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further. 29 But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them. 30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. 31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

Look at verse 31, once they realized that it was Jesus they spoke with, what happen? He vanished out of their sight. Remember in John chapter 3 and verse 8. The Lord gave an example of how a spirit would look. He likened a spirit to the wind.( John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.)

Paul says in Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

And when will this take place?

Again in I Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

At the last trump, and not a moment before.