Heaven Or Hell

[1Tonne]

Prophecy is given in riddles, not clearly (Nu 12:6-8) and subject to more than one interpretation

Agreed. There can be many interpretations. We have good interpretations, and then we have yours. Sadly, you will argue that your interpretation is Christ's.

The" last day" refers to the end of time, wherein will occur the second coming.

Jesus does return in 1 Thes 4:16. What you need to do is separate verses 16 and 17 to give you a better perspective. So, verse 16 says, "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first."
So, Christ returns with the martyrs and no one else, and reigns for 1000 years. This makes sense considering that Jesus said that all the dead believers are not raised until the last day. Not before. Only the Martyrs are raised first (Rev 20:4-6)
Then we have verse 17. So, after the 1000 years and after Satan has been destroyed, "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus, we shall always be with the Lord." This is the last day.
Pretty easy.

Jesus locates the resurrection in the last day (John 6:39),
Paul locates the resurrection with the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16),
Jesus locates the rapture with the second coming (Matthew 24:39-41),
Jesus locates the second coming with the judgment of the sheep and goats at the end of time (Matthew 25:31-33).

Jesus locates the resurrection in the last day (John 6:39), Correct
Paul locates the resurrection with the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16) Wrong. This is not a general rapture of all believers. Only martyrs (Rev 20:4-6)
Jesus locates the rapture with the second coming (Matthew 24:39-41) This verse has nothing to do with the rapture. You have taken these verses badly out of context. (I will explain in the next paragraph)
Jesus locates the second coming with the judgment of the sheep and goats at the end of time (Matthew 25:31-33). This is the last Day. This is an interesting one and it can help to know a little Greek to get the meaning of this. (I will explain after I explain Matt 24:39-41

So, Matthew 24:39-41
Matt 24:40-44 has nothing to do with the rapture.
I believe that to understand these verses we need to read the previous verses. This keeps it in context.
So, we need to take note of verses 15-22 to keep it in context.
“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place—[let the reader understand— 16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 17 Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. 18 And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. 19 But woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 Moreover, pray that when you flee, it will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will again. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short."

We can see that the beast and his minion army are advancing and that they have even made it to the Temple in Jerusalem. As they advance, they are killing the elect (the believers). Then in verses 16-18 it warns them to get away fast. If they don't, then they will be taken away to tribulation and killed. These people are not raptured out. They stay through the tribulation period and are told to flee. Do not look back. Flee fast for your life.

Then after these verses, we see Christ's return in Matt 24:29-31.
“But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet blast, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other."

Next, we have verses 32-39 which are simply saying to be ready. You will be able to tell that Jesus is returning soon as we will know the signs. So, if you see the antichrist in the Temple, then you know that the time of Christ's return is imminent. But like in the days of Noah, people will not be ready. They will be eating and drinking and living life as they always have. But make sure you are ready.
These verses also say that the generation that sees these things start will also see them completed.
“32 Now learn the parable from the fig tree: as soon as its branch has become tender and sprouts its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
36 “But about that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Lastly, we have verses 40-41
"At that time there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left."
This is simply saying that as the beast's armies advance, there will be two people in a field, one will be left, but the believer will be taken to tribulation. Verse 18 even says that if you are in the field, don't waste time by going to get your cloak.
Two women will be grinding at the mill, one will be left, and the believer will be taken to tribulation. SO, FLEE. As it says in verses 16-18, flee. Be ready. Don't be taken to tribulation but know from the parable (verse 32) that we need to be ready to flee.
So, these verses are taken badly out of context when people apply them to the rapture.
I hope from now on you will not do this.

Now we will go onto Matthew 25:31-33.
"31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 And all the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, just as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, but the goats on the left."

Originally, I struggled with these verses as they did not make sense. For instance, I believe that Jesus will return with the martyrs and reign for 1000 years from Jerusalem right up until the end of time. And then, on the last day He will arise and meet everyone in the air. But in Matthew 25:31 it says He "comes down?" How can he arise if Matthew says He "comes down?"

To understand this, first we need to read the passage correctly. It does not say that He "comes down". It simply says that He "comes".
Now, if we look at the word "comes" in the Greek, this word has a few different meanings, and it can give the verse a completely different understanding. This word in the Greek is "erchomai". It can either be translated as "come," "go," "arise," or "come forth"

G2064 - erchomai - Strong's Greek Lexicon (nkjv)

G2064 - ἔρχομαι érchomai, er'-khom-ahee; middle voice of a primary verb (used only in the present and imperfect tenses, the others being supplied by a kindred (middle voice) ἐλεύθομαι eleúthomai el-yoo'-thom-ahee, or (active) ἔλθω élthō el'-tho, which do not otherwise...

www.blueletterbible.org

So, let's look at it in view that at the end of time, Jesus is reigning from Jerusalem and arises as the Greek word "erchomai" can be interpreted.
“But when the Son of Man arises in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 And all the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, just as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, but the goats on the left."
So, Jesus will return with the martyrs and reign for 1000 years from Jerusalem right up until the end of time. Then on the last day He will arise and meet everyone in the air. Then He will take His place on the GWT and judge each person. Believers He will put to His right and those who are not His will go to His left.

Are you unaware of Lk 10:16?

The teachings of the apostles are the teachings of Christ (Lk 10:16).
Why do you object to that fact?

I do not object to the teachings of Christ. I object to you using those words to say that your interpretation is the correct one. I could easily use those words to say that your interpretation does not line up with the teachings of Christ (Fact is, your teachings do not line up)

So please Biblically demonstrate my error here.

The Martyrs are raised and reign for 1000 years. No other person is raised. If they reign for 1000 years, then obviously, that is not the last day. Rev 20:4-6 says that it is only the Martyrs who are raised.
But you believe that the Martyrs and all the believers are raised at the same time and reign with Christ. This is wrong. Only the martyrs are raised. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.
Then, at the end of time, on the last day, He will raise everyone up. Both the living and the dead, believer and non-believer and also the martyrs.
So, in a way, you are correct. On the last day, everyone is raised to eternity. But before then, Revelation 20:4-6 says that only the martyrs are raised. Not all believers as you think.
Revelation 20:4-5 says speciffically that it is only the martyrs who are raised and reign with Him. "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection."

 

[fhansen]

Then perhaps like most people, you must believe there are no true disciples of Christ?

Didn't say that. I see them everyday-people who've encountered the goodness and love of God and are impressed and changed by it enough to want to share it with others and put it into practice themselves-by the help of His grace.

The true disciples of Christ today are no different to the true disciples in the first century, who said this:
We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. That is how we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of deception. 1 John 4:6

Yes

Jesus said that his disciples will prove to be John 15:8; John 8:31, 32, and all will know. John 13:35

Well...I'll say one thing for you. You've certainly identified yourself as one of His disciples -based on your own private, personal interpretations.

That is not normal.
Even when shown wrong,, do persons say, "Ok. Perhaps I can use a little help or guidance."? No. The normal thing to do is act like they know, and "the holy spirit will speak to them". "I'm good." They tell themselves.
Do the scriptures say it works that way?

Some will hear and understand while others won't-and it can also take some time to understand more clearly. You still have a ways to go before you can take the sliver from another peron's eye.

King David selfishly and sinfully had Uriah killed. Good show there, David. And he also had a lot of good points. Either way we don't know where David is now, certainly not based on a sketchy interpretation and understanding of Acts 2:29 & 34.

And eternal punishment is supported in Scripture and good people do go to heaven, of course, because the only way a person can be good is by being made good, justified and sanctified by God.

 

[Clare73]

No. Midwest. Specifically Nebraska.

Why?

I was foolish enough to think you might have used a common phrase because you were from that region.

 

[Clare73]

Agreed. There can be many interpretations. We have good interpretations, and then we have yours. Sadly, you will argue that your interpretation is Christ's.

It falls to you to Biblically demonstrate that 1 Th 4:16-17 is not the teaching of Christ (Lk 10:16).

Nor do I mitigate the plain teaching (below) of Christ (Lk 10:16) with my personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly.

Jesus locates the resurrection in the last day (John 6:39),
Paul locates the resurrection with the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16),
Jesus locates the rapture with the second coming (Matthew 24:39-41),
Jesus locates the second coming with the judgment of the sheep and goats at the end of time (Matthew 25:31-33).

Personal interpretations of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly (Nu 12:6-8) are not authoritative. . .while the above NT didactics of Christ (Lk 10:16) are authoritative.

 

[Aaron112]

Agreed. There can be many interpretations. We have good interpretations, and then we have yours. Sadly, you will argue that your interpretation is Christ's.

The sin is when a person makes an interpretation.
As seen here and throughout forums, and the world, this leads to an abundance of distraction from Jesus, instead of Jesus, and confusion.

 

[fhansen]

The sin is when a person makes an interpretation.
As seen here and throughout forums, and the world, this leads to an abundance of distraction from Jesus, instead of Jesus, and confusion.

Interpretations are very often unavoidable in the bible; it's not always crystal clear. Either way, everyone here is sincere in their beliefs and understanding, and by whatever name you might wish to call it your's is only one more opinion among quite a variety in this thread alone.

 

[1Tonne]

It falls to you to Biblically demonstrate that 1 Th 4:16-17 is not the teaching of Christ (Lk 10:16).

I have demonstrated it. If you are not able to understand the teachings of Christ, then you may need to move away from the Rapture indoctrination to see it.

Nor do I mitigate the plain teaching (below) of Christ (Lk 10:16) with my personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly.

Paul locates the resurrection with the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16),

Yes, you do mitigate Christ's teachings. You believe that the dead believers are raised with the Martyrs who are raised before the last day. They are raised 1000 years before the last day, and in Revelation, it says that no other person is raised with the martyrs. Open your eyes.

Jesus locates the rapture with the second coming (Matthew 24:39-41),

Do you still believe that this verse has to do with the rapture, after I showed you in context what it means? It has nothing to do with the rapture. You have selected a few verses and then made a doctrine on them.

Personal interpretations of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly (Nu 12:6-8) are not authoritative. . .

Agree. Personal interpretation can take people down rabbit holes. So, tell me, do you still believe that the verses in Matthew 24:39-41 are to do with the rapture, or do you believe that those who are taken away are taken to tribulation?
(When you answer this, it should give me an answer to whether I carry on with this conversation. If you still believe that it is a rapture verse, then I know that you have been indoctrinated into your view so much that you have shutters over your eyes. Therefore, the conversation would not be worth continuing)

The sin is when a person makes an interpretation.
As seen here and throughout forums, and the world, this leads to an abundance of distraction from Jesus, instead of Jesus, and confusion

Agreed. Personally, I love end times stuff and so do many other people. But we need to be careful that it does not become our main focus. We only have a short time on earth and there are many people who are perishing. So, we need to make sure that we have not prioritised end times stuff over sharing the Gospel. So, everyone on this thread, make sure you love God enough to obey Him and tell many people the Gospel, and also love your neighbour enough to warn them of their condemnation, then tell them of the cross. Blessings.

 

[Aaron112]

Neither rapture nor to tribulation; rather simple as written - to judgment (final, permanent, unchangeable .... likely this) ..... as it is at the time of the coming of the Son of Man !!!
...and NOTE they did not know or understand UNTIL it happens. no knowing beforehand for them.

So, tell me, do you still believe that the verses in Matthew 24:39-41 are to do with the rapture, or do you believe that those who are taken away are taken to tribulation?

Possibly neither. First, it helps to print out the Scripture instead of just reference it -

-- 39 and they did not know or understand until the flood came and swept them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be [unexpected judgment]. 40 At that time two men will be in the field; one will be [a]taken [for judgment] and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken [for judgment] and one will be left.

 

[1Tonne]

39 and they did not know or understand until the flood came and swept them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be [unexpected judgment]. 40 At that time two men will be in the field; one will be [a]taken [for judgment] and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken [for judgment] and one will be left.

When Christ returns with the Martyrs to reign for 1000 years, people will not be ready. Just like they were not ready in the days of Noah. They will not expect it. 2 may be in the field, one left and the other to judgment. 2 Women are in the mill, one is left and the other is taken to judgment.

 

[Aaron112]

people will not be ready.

They are not ready today, obviously. And they will not be ready when Jesus returns. They can read everything there is anywhere, in Scripture, in this forum, and continue to be dead, in darkness, forever.
Yet the Creator Who is Rich in Mercy, Who hardens the hearts that He Chooses to Harden,
Might grant a relief if they turn to Him, a grace that they may turn to Him now, today, in this life, before it is too late.

 

[1Tonne]

Jesus locates the second coming with the judgment of the sheep and goats at the end of time (Matthew 25:31-33).

I have just been studying Matthew 25:31-33 some more and had a wow moment.
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 And all the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, just as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, but the goats on the left."

It says that the "Son of Man comes......then He will sit on His throne". Where is He coming from? Is He coming from heaven to earth, or from earth to heaven? Considering that the place He goes to has His throne, it is worded that He is coming from somewhere that is not heaven. So, He would be coming from earth to heaven where he will be seated the GWT judgement.
If we view it that Jesus is coming from heaven to earth, it implies that the place He goes to has His judgement seat. But we know that the GWT judgement is not on earth. It is in Heaven.
This aligns with my view of eschatology.
Jesus raises up the martyrs, then, returns to earth and reigns on earth for 1000 years. Then Satan is set free for a short time, God destroys Satan. And then, Jesus arises, meets everyone in the air and then goes to His throne to judge. So, Jesus "comes" from earth to heaven to sit on His throne.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

So, Jesus will return with the martyrs and reign for 1000 years from Jerusalem right up until the end of time.

In Revelation 20 there is a figurative dragon, a figurative abyss, a figurative chain, and a figurative key and of course a figurative 1,000 years. Here the context of Revelation 20 clearly allows for a figurative usage of the term.

If one were to take the literal route...meaning the 1,000 year reign is 10x10x10 years, this would come in conflict with the basic hermeneutic rule: Scriptura interpretur Sciputra…for there is no parallel verse of Scripture to compare it to determine if it should be taken literally. So for example, if Paul stated in a passage of Scripture speaking of the end times, and Paul stated there is a 1,000 year reign of Christ…this would establish doctrine and be binding on all Christians.

So how many passages of Scripture does it take to establish an article of faith (Doctrine)?

We use the incarnation as an example. The Scriptural teaching of the Incarnation is presupposed on every page of the NT and is to be doctrinally binding on all Christians. And how many passages of Scripture establishes this doctrine? Two. The Virgin birth narratives of Mt. 1 and Luke 1. This is Scriptures own way of establishing doctrine. Two passages of the same teaching from two different authors; two passages from the same author in different books; or two passages of Scripture from the same author but in different contexts.

When we use the hermeneutical rule Scriptura interpretur Scriptura….the usages of parallel texts…it guards against taking a ONE verse out of its context and building a new understanding of Christianity. Cults and sects do this all the time.

The best example I can come up with is Rick Warren of Saddleback Church when he quoted Proverbs 29:18 'Where there is no vision, the people perish.” Scripturally, a vision is one of the ways the Prophets of the OT received revelation from God. In this context, of course people will perish spiritually where there is no revelation from God.

But Rick Warren uses this verse to promote Church growth. The pastor of the church must have a vision of where the church is to go in order to get more people in Church….and the members of the church must be on board with that vision.
No where does Proverbs 29 state Warren’s interpretation. This is what happens where there is no parallel text to justify his belief.

The same with the literal 1,000 year reign of Christ….no parallel passage of Scripture. Therefore, a figurative understanding of the 1,000 year reign of Christ is allowed and a literal 1,000 year reign is not doctrinally binding on any Christian.

 

[1Tonne]

In Revelation 20 there is a figurative dragon, a figurative abyss, a figurative chain, and a figurative key and of course a figurative 1,000 years.

In Revelation 20 there is a figurative dragon, a figurative abyss, a figurative chain, and a figurative key and of course a figurative 1,000 years. Here the context of Revelation 20 clearly allows for a figurative usage of the term.

If one were to take the literal route...meaning the 1,000 year reign is 10x10x10 years, this would come in conflict with the basic hermeneutic rule: Scriptura interpretur Sciputra…for there is no parallel verse of Scripture to compare it to determine if it should be taken literally. So for example, if Paul stated in a passage of Scripture speaking of the end times, and Paul stated there is a 1,000 year reign of Christ…this would establish doctrine and be binding on all Christians.

So how many passages of Scripture does it take to establish an article of faith (Doctrine)?

We use the incarnation as an example. The Scriptural teaching of the Incarnation is presupposed on every page of the NT and is to be doctrinally binding on all Christians. And how many passages of Scripture establishes this doctrine? Two. The Virgin birth narratives of Mt. 1 and Luke 1. This is Scriptures own way of establishing doctrine. Two passages of the same teaching from two different authors; two passages from the same author in different books; or two passages of Scripture from the same author but in different contexts.

When we use the hermeneutical rule Scriptura interpretur Scriptura….the usages of parallel texts…it guards against taking a ONE verse out of its context and building a new understanding of Christianity. Cults and sects do this all the time.

The best example I can come up with is Rick Warren of Saddleback Church when he quoted Proverbs 29:18 'Where there is no vision, the people perish.” Scripturally, a vision is one of the ways the Prophets of the OT received revelation from God. In this context, of course people will perish spiritually where there is no revelation from God.

But Rick Warren uses this verse to promote Church growth. The pastor of the church must have a vision of where the church is to go in order to get more people in Church….and the members of the church must be on board with that vision.
No where does Proverbs 29 state Warren’s interpretation. This is what happens where there is no parallel text to justify his belief.

The same with the literal 1,000 year reign of Christ….no parallel passage of Scripture. Therefore, a figurative understanding of the 1,000 year reign of Christ is allowed and a literal 1,000 year reign is not doctrinally binding on any Christian.

I take it that you are Amillennial. I am not Amillennial and so I take it as literal. Thank you for your opinion.

 

[Aaron112]

I thought/continue/ that "a-millennial" is part of a false gospel or false teachings ?

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

I take it that you are Amillennial. I am not Amillennial and so I take it as literal. Thank you for your opinion.

So then what are your rules for interpretation the 1000 reign of Christ as literal?

 

[Mercy Shown]

It's one or the other.

Have you heard this before?
Growing up, I have heard this, multiple times.... "The good go the heaven. The bad go to hell. One place (heaven) is rejoicing and bliss. The other place (Hell), is torment and anguish... eternally."

Then in my early 20s, I came to learn that this is not true at all. Thanks be to God.
All good people do not go to heaven, and bad people do not experience literal torment and anguish eternally.

What is interesting, is that I learned this truth from the Bible... the same book persons claim teaches the opposite.
What should you believe - (A) All good people go do heaven, and all bad people go to hell. Or (B) All good people do not go to heaven, and both bad and good people go to "hell"?

What the Bible says, is that B is correct, and A is not true.
This is very important to know, because it opens the door for us to know the truth, as taught in the Bible, and reveals the truth about our loved ones that have died, and their future, and ours.

Let's look at it together.
Let's start by asking three questions ...

1. Was King David a good man?
2. When King David died, did he go to heaven?
3. Where is King David now?

By what metric do we judge people as good or bad? No human has the credentials to make that determination. All we can infer from scriptures is that all people whom God pronounces good will be with him for eternity and all those he pronounces wicked will not.

So the question for us is do we trust His judgements?

 

[Clare73]

I have just been studying Matthew 25:31-33 some more and had a wow moment.
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 And all the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, just as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, but the goats on the left."

It says that the "Son of Man comes......then He will sit on His throne". Where is He coming from? Is He coming from heaven to earth,

According to the teaching (1 Th 4:16-17) of Christ (Lk 10:16), he is coming from heaven, where he is until his second coming to earth at the end of time, when he comes in Glory for the Final Judgment; i.e., of all mankind, both the sheep and the goats.

On what basis do you seek to overturn the below authoritative teaching (1 Th 4:16) of Christ (Lk 10:16) with your personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly and subject to more than one interpretation (Nu 12:6-8)?

Jesus locates the resurrection in the last day (John 6:39),
Paul locates the resurrection with the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16),
Jesus locates the rapture with the second coming (Matthew 24:39-41),
Jesus locates the second coming with the judgment of the sheep and goats at the end of time (Matthew 25:31-33).

Therefore, the authoritative teaching (above) of Christ locates the resurrection, the "catching up," the second coming and the final judgment in the last day at the end of time.

 

[fhansen]

I wouldn't make eschatolgy a deal-breaker or division-causing article of faith. In centuries past church people considered and held a variety of opinions on the matter of the end times but, other than agreeing on the fact that Jesus will ultimately return to judge the world and usher in a new heaven and a new earth, consummating God's plan, most of the rest came to be considered less relevant.

 

[1Tonne]

So then what are your rules for interpretation the 1000 reign of Christ as literal?

Scripture Interprets Scripture—But not in the way you assume
While the principle Scriptura interpretatur Scriptura is valid, it does not mean that every doctrine must have an explicit second reference to be legitimate. Some doctrines are derived from a single passage when the context is clear and unambiguous.
-The New Heavens and New Earth (Isaiah 65:17, 2 Peter 3:13, Revelation 21:1) is not mentioned in every book of the Bible, yet it is a clear doctrine.
-The 144,000 in Revelation 7 & 14 is only found in Revelation—should we reject it simply because no other book references it?
-The mark of the beast (Revelation 13:16-18) has no parallel verse outside Revelation, yet all eschatological views take it seriously.

So, the idea that one passage is never enough is not a universal rule. If a passage is clear and detailed, it establishes doctrine unless another passage contradicts it or clarifies it.

Revelation 20 is Not a "Single Verse"—It’s a Whole Passage
Revelation 20:1-6 is not just a single verse, but a detailed passage outlining:
-The binding of Satan (vv. 1-3)
-The resurrection of the martyrs (v. 4)
-Their reign with Christ for 1,000 years (v. 4)
-The second resurrection and final judgment (vv. 5-6)

This is a structured passage with internal logic, not just a passing statement.

The 1,000-Year Reign Has Strong Biblical Parallels
While the specific term "1,000 years" appears only in Revelation 20, the concept of a future messianic reign is present in multiple Scriptures:
-Daniel 7:13-14, 27 – The Son of Man receives an everlasting kingdom and the "saints of the Most High" reign with Him.
-Zechariah 14:9-11, 16-17 – The Lord reigns as King over the earth after a great battle, and nations come to worship Him.
-Isaiah 2:2-4, 11:6-10 – The Messiah reigns, and peace is established on earth.
-Luke 19:11-27 – The parable of the minas implies a period of ruling before the final judgment.

These passages strongly parallel Revelation 20 in that they describe a physical reign of the Messiah on earth. The 1,000 years in Revelation 20 adds a duration, but the reign itself is well attested throughout Scripture.

Why Not Take Revelation 20 Figuratively?
You claim that because the dragon, abyss, chain, and key are symbolic, the 1,000 years must be as well. But this does not logically follow.
-Many passages in the Bible mix symbolism with literal events.
For example, in Daniel 2, Nebuchadnezzar’s dream was symbolic, but the kingdoms it represented were real. Also, in Revelation 12, the dragon (Satan) is symbolic, but his persecution of believers is real.

So even if some elements of Revelation 20 are symbolic (the chain, the key), this does not mean the 1,000 years is also figurative. Nothing in the passage demands that the reign itself is symbolic.

Does Revelation 20 Conflict with Any Other Passage?
The only reason to reject a literal millennium would be if it contradicted other Scripture. But nowhere does Scripture deny a future reign of Christ on earth before the final judgment.
The amillennial position assumes the millennium is now (the church age). But Revelation 20 explicitly places the resurrection before the reign, not at the end of it. So, has Christ already raised the "dead in Christ"?
-Revelation 20:4 – "They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."
-This resurrection is called the "first resurrection" (v. 5), implying a second one later.
-If this is a spiritual resurrection (as amillennials claim), then what is the second resurrection?

If the first resurrection is spiritual, and the second resurrection is physical, that would be an unnatural split. A plain reading suggests both are bodily.

The Burden of Proof is on Amillennialism
You assume that one passage cannot establish doctrine unless there is a parallel verse. But that’s not a biblical rule—it’s your own assumption.
The real question is: Is there any passage that refutes a literal millennium? If not, then a plain reading of Revelation 20 stands.

I appreciate your concern for sound biblical interpretation. However, your argument assumes that unless a doctrine has a second parallel passage, it cannot be established. This is not a biblical rule—it’s an assumption. Revelation 20:1-6 is not just a single verse but a detailed passage. Furthermore, the idea of a future messianic reign is supported by multiple Scriptures (Daniel 7, Zechariah 14, Isaiah 2, etc.).
"Your argument about symbolic language does not automatically make the 1,000 years figurative. Many passages mix symbolism with literal events. Also, if the first resurrection is spiritual, what do you do with the second resurrection? Wouldn’t a plain reading suggest both are bodily? Unless there is a direct contradiction elsewhere in Scripture, Revelation 20 should be taken at face value.

According to the teaching (1 Th 4:16-17) of Christ (Lk 10:16), he is coming from heaven, where he is until his second coming to earth at the end of time, when he comes in Glory for the Final Judgment; i.e., of all mankind, both the sheep and the goats.

So, you are saying that according to 1 Thes 4:16-17, He comes from heaven to earth and then he comes again at His second coming. But how can He come a second time if He is already here?

On what basis do you seek to overturn the below authoritative teaching (1 Th 4:16) of Christ (Lk 10:16)

How do you know that your interpretation is of Christ? It contradicts what the bible says. So, you should stop putting "of Christ". You put "of Christ" because it makes it sound as though your interpretation has divine authority. So, until you can be 100% sure that you are 100% correct and everyone else is 100% wrong, you should stop putting that.

On what basis do you seek to overturn the below authoritative teaching (1 Th 4:16) of Christ (Lk 10:16) with your personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly and subject to more than one interpretation (Nu 12:6-8)?

Jesus locates the resurrection in the last day (John 6:39),
Paul locates the resurrection with the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16),
Jesus locates the rapture with the second coming (Matthew 24:39-41),
Jesus locates the second coming with the judgment of the sheep and goats at the end of time (Matthew 25:31-33).

Therefore, the authoritative teaching (above) of Christ locates the resurrection, the "catching up," the second coming and the final judgment in the last day at the end of time.

Please show me how Matthew 24:39-41 talks about the rapture? Also use the scriptures around the verses to keep it in context.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

-The New Heavens and New Earth (Isaiah 65:17, 2 Peter 3:13, Revelation 21:1) is not mentioned in every book of the Bible, yet it is a clear doctrine.

No doctrine has to be mentioned IN EVERY BOOK OF THE BIBLE. Miss-quote and I reject your reasoning.

Revelation 20 is Not a "Single Verse"—It’s a Whole Passage
Revelation 20:1-6 is not just a single verse, but a detailed passage outlining:
-The binding of Satan (vv. 1-3)
-The resurrection of the martyrs (v. 4)
-Their reign with Christ for 1,000 years (v. 4)
-The second resurrection and final judgment (vv. 5-6)

I never said a 'SINGLE VERSE OR WHOLE PASSAGE'. I said different context. Rev. 20 is a single context of which I reject literal interpretation must flow from it.

The mark of the beast (Revelation 13:16-18) has no parallel verse outside Revelation, yet all eschatological views take it seriously.

Literally? Nope, not even close. I reject.

Is there any passage that refutes a literal millennium?

Yeap. No parallel passage. I reject a literal interpretation.

Also, if the first resurrection is spiritual, what do you do with the second resurrection?

First resurrection is conversion (John 5:24) a clear text. The second resurrection is the general return of Christ.....Simple.

So, the idea that one passage is never enough is not a universal rule.

For me it is....for you it is not. I reject this assertion.

Note: I am a little rusty on my knowledge of Revelation. I haven't studied this stuff in 30 years. I rather interpret the more clear texts of Scripture. Plus I would rather @Clare73 deal with you and read her comments. She knows her stuff.
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But thanks for your opinion.