DOGE - what a mess it is

[FreeinChrist]

Thiis post on Bluesky is so very descriptive of DOGE:

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DOGE takes a chainsaw to an agency, fires willy-nilly, then 'OOPS! We need those people" and they are rehired.....but the office was emptied.

Some of Musk's mess:

Federal Workers Who Were Fired and Rehired by the Trump Administration​

Hundreds of federal workers — many of them in critical health and national security jobs — have been brought back, sometimes within days of their initial firings.

www.nytimes.com

https://www.science.org/content/article/usda-ordered-reinstate-nearly-6000-fired-workers

Scientists at the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) were among the first to receive termination notices last month as President Donald Trump’s administration moved to fire tens of thousands of probationary employees. Now, those workers could soon return to their jobs—at least temporarily—after an independent federal board issued a 45-day stay to their termination, finding “reasonable grounds” to believe that USDA fired them illegally.​

The turn of events follows similar developments for workers at other agencies, including the National Science Foundation (NSF) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), but the reinstatements were forced by different mechanisms and are subject to different timelines. USDA has 5 days to submit evidence that it has complied with the stay, which began yesterday and runs until 18 April.​

What a mess

 

[FreeinChrist]

Then there is stuff like this about Doge's wall of receipts:

DOGE deleted another $4 billion from its 'wall of receipts'

This isn't the first time the group has significantly pared back the stated savings on its website.

www.businessinsider.com

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Business Insider previously reported that it lowered its claimed savings by more than $9 billion in two days last month. It had claimed savings on its "wall of receipts" of $16.5 billion, mainly in canceled contracts. By Tuesday, the claimed amount saved in canceled contracts was down to about $8 billion, according to the site's receipt section, which lists contract, grant, and lease cancellations.​

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A few contracts account for a significant chunk of the changes — for example, the site had said that canceling an IRS contract saved $1.9 billion, the Times said. But the outlet found that contract had been canceled in November. The same was true of DOGE's earlier accounting snafus, when it claimed to save about $2 billion by canceling three US Agency for International Development deals, before deleting two of the entries and, with them, $1.3 billion in savings.​

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Elon Musk's DOGE caught inflating its success again as it deletes $4 billion from its 'wall of receipts': Key points

In its latest embarrassment, Elon Musk's DOGE has stealthily expunged all of the five largest items on the “wall of receipts” after the much-vaunted “savings” were revealed. DOGE is currently claiming it has succeeded in lopping $65bn from federal spending, a sharp rise from its earlier figure...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

As DOGE quietly deletes billions in claimed savings from website, know the key points in the story:​

-The White House DOGE Office walked back $4 billion in claimed savings on its website. This is the second massive rollback in a week, fuelling skepticism about tech mogul Elon Musk's ability to overhaul the federal system.....​

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-The website now says the group has saved $105 billion in total but does not list details for savings other than contracts, like the names of terminated grants or buildings with cancelled leases, making the total difficult to verify.​

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-From the beginning, the receipts have been filled with blatant errors and outright falsehoods. According to experts, DOGE consistently inflated numbers, counted savings multiple times, and claimed credit for cancellations that occurred years—or even decades—before Musk was involved.​

It feels like a grift.

 

[Yttrium]

We need to get rid of these activist judges who insist on following the law instead of Trump. They're getting in the way of Trump slashing waste, inefficiency, and everything else in government.

 

[Fantine]

Trump had a cabinet meeting and told cabinet members that they, not Musk were in charge of firings. Then he warned them that if they didn't fire enough people, Musk would do it.

Heard this on MSNBC (audio from meeting.)

 

[Say it aint so]

It's amazing the "agency" responsible for fixing inefficiency is markedly inefficient itself.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Amazing what can happen when you sit out elections.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The same thing happens to my yard when the grass gets too high, and I mow. I may need to reseed thin spots. A "mess."
It is not uncommon for employers to reduce a bloated workforce only to find out that some of the people they let go were more critical than they thought. Either way, the employer has the right to mow his business. The grass does not have a "right" to grow.
The US gov has over 3 million employees, 4 million contract employees, and 2 million in the military. That is 9 million!

 

[Say it aint so]

The same thing happens to my yard when the grass gets too high, and I mow. I may need to reseed thin spots. A "mess."
It is not uncommon for employers to reduce a bloated workforce only to find out that some of the people they let go were more critical than they thought. Either way, the employer has the right to mow his business. The grass does not have a "right" to grow.
The US gov has over 3 million employees, 4 million contract employees, and 2 million in the military. That is 9 million!

To further your analogy. It's is noted the grass needs to be mowed. Instead of relying on the lawn service to determine the best way to go about it, one instead relies on a service who has no idea about lawns and can't distinguish between grass, weeds, shrubs and flowers. So they just indiscriminately start cutting everything. Then they run to X and proclaim the great work they're doing. Then once the work is really looked at it's determined they don't know what they're doing and turn around and they quietly try to fix what they botched. But the damage is done. Really, just laying people off is not fixing efficiency. Yes, maybe the size of government may need to be reduced, but that's what audits ran by auditors are for. Not kids who write code led by someone who disdains government, at least less the agencies who he reaps revenue from.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

To further your analogy. It's is noted the grass needs to be mowed. Instead of relying on the lawn service to determine the best way to go about it, one instead relies on a service who has no idea about lawns and can't distinguish between grass, weeds, shrubs and flowers. So they just indiscriminately start cutting everything. Then they run to X and proclaim the great work they're doing. Then once the work is really looked at it's determined they don't know what they're doing and turn around and they quietly try to fix what they botched. But the damage is done. Really, just laying people off is not fixing efficiency. Yes, maybe the size of government may need to be reduced, but that's what audits ran by auditors are for. Not kids who write code led by someone who disdains government, at least less the agencies who he reaps revenue from.

Good points, SIAS. The trouble is they would likely have to hire 49 thousand people to collect data, 33 thousand more to analyze the data, 39 thousand more to create a plan, and 55 thousand to implement it. Then,12 years later, after 22 Senate and House hearings, someone sues to halt the implementation, and some district court judge cancels the whole project. And, of course, they cannot fire those 176 thousand who did all this work. Such is the nature of a bureaucracy.
Just kidding.. but it is frustrating for taxpayers who must continue to pay all these taxes.

 

[Say it aint so]

Good points, SIAS. The trouble is they would likely have to hire 49 thousand people to collect data, 33 thousand more to analyze the data, 39 thousand more to create a plan, and 55 thousand to implement it. Then,12 years later, after 22 Senate and House hearings, someone sues to halt the implementation, and some district court judge cancels the whole project. And, of course, they cannot fire those 176 thousand who did all this work. Such is the nature of a bureaucracy.
Just kidding.. but it is frustrating for taxpayers who must continue to pay all these taxes.

 

[FreeinChrist]

The same thing happens to my yard when the grass gets too high, and I mow. I may need to reseed thin spots. A "mess."
It is not uncommon for employers to reduce a bloated workforce only to find out that some of the people they let go were more critical than they thought. Either way, the employer has the right to mow his business. The grass does not have a "right" to grow.
The US gov has over 3 million employees, 4 million contract employees, and 2 million in the military. That is 9 million!

But the employer is very sloppy and against the good of the company to just do a fast swipe with an axe (so to speak) to decrease employees rather than a slower, targeted, thoughtout approach to thinning staff.

And perhaps Trump is figuring that out as he now wants the Cabinet to pick the employees and not a few young computer nerds who don't understand the negative effect they are having.

Loading…

www.washingtonpost.com

President Donald Trump directed Cabinet members Thursday to be more involved in deciding which government workers are shed, rather than waiting for directives from Elon Musk, a subtle but important shift in the overhaul of the federal workforce that he and his billionaire adviser have championed.​

​

Trump held the Cabinet meeting after weeks of growing tensions between his top political officials, who sometimes had little or no foreknowledge of U.S. DOGE Service’s actions, and Musk, who has touted his powers to make sweeping cuts across the government. The president emerged saying he wanted his Cabinet members to “go first,” keeping those they deemed effective at their jobs and firing others, while warning that Musk still held significant authority.​

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[public hermit]

But the employer is very sloppy and against the good of the company to just do a fast swipe with an axe (so to speak) to decrease employees rather than a slower, targeted, thoughtout approach to thinning staff.

And perhaps Trump is figuring that out as he now wants the Cabinet to pick the employees and not a few young computer nerds who don't understand the negative effect they are having.

Loading…

www.washingtonpost.com

President Donald Trump directed Cabinet members Thursday to be more involved in deciding which government workers are shed, rather than waiting for directives from Elon Musk, a subtle but important shift in the overhaul of the federal workforce that he and his billionaire adviser have championed.​

​

Trump held the Cabinet meeting after weeks of growing tensions between his top political officials, who sometimes had little or no foreknowledge of U.S. DOGE Service’s actions, and Musk, who has touted his powers to make sweeping cuts across the government. The president emerged saying he wanted his Cabinet members to “go first,” keeping those they deemed effective at their jobs and firing others, while warning that Musk still held significant authority.​

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Hopefully, that's correct and he's realized his error. But it says a lot that he thought it was a good idea at all. I know this is going to sound surprising, but he's not a very good leader. I'm wondering if he put Musk in place to serve as his patsy. He knew it would be unpopular and destructive and needed a fall guy. He likes to tear things up and then let someone else bear the blame.

 

[mark46]

Trump had a cabinet meeting and told cabinet members that they, not Musk were in charge of firings. Then he warned them that if they didn't fire enough people, Musk would do it.

Heard this on MSNBC (audio from meeting.)

This was essentially an emergency cabinet meeting, 2nd in a week,

Trump watched his chosen lackeys oppose Musk's excesses, criticizing his firing of TSA workers as planes fall from the sky (including Musk's). Rubio complained about Musk's criticism that Rubio wasn't cutting enough staffer at State.
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This is very, very late, but this is an approach that will be upheld by the courts. For example, there are certainly many political appointees and probationary workers that could legally be immediately fired by cabinet heads.

I would note that Clinto formed a commission led by VP Gore that ending up cutting 377,000 jobs from the federal government, with zero law suits. Trump likes the chaos, but this approach does work,

 

[loveofourlord]

Good points, SIAS. The trouble is they would likely have to hire 49 thousand people to collect data, 33 thousand more to analyze the data, 39 thousand more to create a plan, and 55 thousand to implement it. Then,12 years later, after 22 Senate and House hearings, someone sues to halt the implementation, and some district court judge cancels the whole project. And, of course, they cannot fire those 176 thousand who did all this work. Such is the nature of a bureaucracy.
Just kidding.. but it is frustrating for taxpayers who must continue to pay all these taxes.

right so much more efficient to salt and burn parts of your yrad then try to reseed it then do it right the first time. Because you know, having to re-hire people you jut fired is a sign of a good manager and wouldn't be let go imediatly.

 

[JustaPewFiller]

Good points, SIAS. The trouble is they would likely have to hire 49 thousand people to collect data, 33 thousand more to analyze the data, 39 thousand more to create a plan, and 55 thousand to implement it. Then,12 years later, after 22 Senate and House hearings, someone sues to halt the implementation, and some district court judge cancels the whole project. And, of course, they cannot fire those 176 thousand who did all this work. Such is the nature of a bureaucracy.
Just kidding.. but it is frustrating for taxpayers who must continue to pay all these taxes.

It is a fair point. You can get into "analysis paralysis" where you spend so much time (and money) analyzing things that you never get anything done - and that isn't good.

But there is also just blindly swinging the axe. Maybe you cut off something you don't need, but maybe you cut your foot off too - and that isn't good either.

I know business is a different world than government, but a "quick" method we used to use in business for whatever area we were looking at was..

1. Get the cost data for all the various areas of the business.
2. Ask the business - "What are you most mission critical areas, processes, people? In other words, what are the things that if we break them things will go really sideways, really quickly?" Those are off the table for round 1 of any cuts / restructuring.

Then you are free to start chopping away at the areas with the highest cost that are not mission critical as job #1. As you progress and learn more about the business you can start to make the mission critical areas more efficient by building on the successes you had in the other areas while continuing to work the overall project.

That's just how we did it, it worked far more often than it failed. Usually we could show gains fairly quickly with minimal breakage.
But, then again, we weren't geniuses like Musk either.

 

[High Fidelity]

It's amazing the "agency" responsible for fixing inefficiency is markedly inefficient itself.

The writing was on the wall when it was initially meant to have two co-leaders. The irony.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Trump puts new limits on Elon Musk's authority amid backlash to DOGE cuts

The president instructed his Cabinet to work with Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency but clarified that Cabinet members should be the ones making staffing decisions.

www.nbcnews.com

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President Donald Trump said he told his Cabinet secretaries during a meeting Thursday that staffing decisions will be left up to them, not Elon Musk and his Department of Government Efficiency.​

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Trump said he instructed Cabinet members to work alongside DOGE on spending and workforce reductions while clarifying that final job cuts will be at the discretion of the department leaders.​

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"We just had a meeting with most of the Secretaries, Elon, and others, and it was a very positive one," Trump said on Truth Social. "It’s very important that we cut levels down to where they should be, but it’s also important to keep the best and most productive people."​

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"As the Secretaries learn about, and understand, the people working for the various Departments, they can be very precise as to who will remain, and who will go. We say the 'scalpel' rather than the 'hatchet,'" Trump added.​

 

[mark46]

Trump puts new limits on Elon Musk's authority amid backlash to DOGE cuts

The president instructed his Cabinet to work with Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency but clarified that Cabinet members should be the ones making staffing decisions.

www.nbcnews.com

​

President Donald Trump said he told his Cabinet secretaries during a meeting Thursday that staffing decisions will be left up to them, not Elon Musk and his Department of Government Efficiency.​

​

Trump said he instructed Cabinet members to work alongside DOGE on spending and workforce reductions while clarifying that final job cuts will be at the discretion of the department leaders.​

​

​

"We just had a meeting with most of the Secretaries, Elon, and others, and it was a very positive one," Trump said on Truth Social. "It’s very important that we cut levels down to where they should be, but it’s also important to keep the best and most productive people."​

​

"As the Secretaries learn about, and understand, the people working for the various Departments, they can be very precise as to who will remain, and who will go. We say the 'scalpel' rather than the 'hatchet,'" Trump added.​

There is hundreds of billions of savings to be reduces, fraud, waste, and abuse

Thise who could best find that could best identify that abuse
1) IRS workers who work on fining fraud'
2) Social Security groups that work on finding fraud
3) Medicare and Medicaid groups that work on finding fraud
4) DOJ watchdogs over each of the organizations
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The vast majority of these personnel are gone or will be soon.
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MAKE NO MISTAKE - WE NEED TO REDUCE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SPENDING AND REDUCE THE DEBT
There is ZERO Trump interest in reducing waste, fraud and abuse. the interest is in tearing down government programs.

And yes, a group in charge of finding ways to be more efficient is a really good idea. Cointon formed such a commission, reduced the federal jb force by 377K, had a balanced budget and a 10-year plan for eliminating the debt (not only the deficit, but the debt).

Finally, and obviously, there are many goals of this administration. #2 and #3 and #4 are reducing taxes for the rich and reducing any regulations and restrictions that reduce the power of the rich and of Putin. Yes, I suppose that I should mention that the number one goal for Trump is for him to be viewed as a powerful leader, with a a Nobel peace prize and with all the world bowing at his feet (or at least with them telling him how great he is. The heads of Jordan, the UK and France understand.

Zelenskyy simply didn't understand. He needed to thank trump for his great leadership in its support for Ukraine and for leading the peace process. He should have given Trump a medal of honor or freedom (or the Ukranian equivalent) and signed the "deal" giving up half his future revues from his resources.

 

[Pommer]

Zelenskyy simply didn't understand. He needed to thank trump for his great leadership in its support for Ukraine and for LWding the peace process. He should have given Trump a medal of honor or freedom (or the Ukranian equivalent) and signed the "deal" giving up half his future revues from his resources.

Right all hail the Ego-in-Chief, President Trump needs that constant reassurance that he’s better than what Dad told him he’d be!

 

[mark46]

Right all hail the Ego-in-Chief, President Trump needs that constant reassurance that he’s better than what Dad told him he’d be!

The other leaders understood, the leaders of Jordan, England and France.