Trump, Vance and Zelenskyy spar over Russian war in tense exchange at White House

[JimR-OCDS]

I am not twisting what Zelensky said. I am reporting what he said and what he meant by it.

Then your reading comprehension is failing you.

 

[lifepsyop]

I don't think that there is any restriction on free speech on immigration. There is much discussion about the small boats coming across the English Channel. If the objections were racist then that would not be liked, because it would be seen as unfair discrimination, but discussion about how to cope with the numbers coming here, who is a refugee, who a legal migrant and who an illegal migrant is completely free, as is the dialogue about the desperate plight the people are in, compared to our resources and the fact that we have homeless people here. Generally speaking it's the people smugglers who are seen as the bad guys. I don't see a great contradiction between Government and Christian views on this, although there would have been about the Conservatives' Rwanda scheme I think. However we were perfectly free to express dissent with that.

It's hard to imagine how transforming your country into a majority Muslim nation is part of a Christian worldview, but maybe that is a British thing I don't fully understand.

In any case, you are not allowed to say you want to end Muslim immigration, without police showing up at your door at least. Like you said, that would be interpreted as "racism".

That is a fundamental question of immigration, of what the nature of your country will become, that you have no freedom to discuss.

LGBT+ is a much harder issue to deal with because it is socially accepted and protected in the equality legislation. I think the legislation is trying to make sure that everyone feels included and valued. We believe that people should be valued too, but certain behaviour is wrong and that God's way is best. We are a bit hamstrung with that. The best way, I think, is to introduce people to Jesus and, if they accept Him, He will help them live the way He wants them to. We also try to protect our Christian institutions from having to agree or support LGBT behaviour. It is a bit of a battle but Jesus said that we live in the world and the world does not know Him. I suppose we see it as a spiritual battle rather than a free speech issue, but I accept your point that there are limitations over what is socially acceptable to say. I can't imaging the police knocking on anyone's door though, except when someone is inciting violence.

"except when someone is inciting violence", see there you go. If you criticize LGBT lifestyle, then you are 'inciting violence' against the LGBT community. It's that simple, and those encounters with law enforcement are documented.

At the very least, your speech is heavily suppressed with the threat of the law looming over you.

As for Russia, I think the liberals see becoming Russian as restricting certain behaviours, but the issue is more a matter of not wanting to be taken over by another country. Also the Soviet Union, pre Gorbachev, imprisoned dissenters. Since Putin, Russia seems to be reverting to a less free regime than that brought in by Gorbachev (which followed seven years of prayer for the Soviet Union) where political dissent might incur severe suffering. We have political free speech here unless it incites violence or threatens national security; I don't think that they do

I think it is arguable that Russians, especially Russian Christians, have much more freedom then you yourself do. That may produce some cognitive dissonance since you've always been taught that the west is the free world.

Political dissent may seem more open in the UK, but that's only because you aren't dissenting against any real locus of power.

You are not ruled by politicians, but by an ideology.

You are free to switch out any number of political leaders, but if you dissent from the ideology, you will, as discussed, find officers appearing on your doorstep.

Whatever you think of supposed restrictions on political dissent in Russia, (Putin is extremely popular with the people generally, like it or not), the situation is far, far worse in Ukraine where political opposition is quite literally banned, and young men who don't want to fight in Zelensky's war are routinely kidnapped in broad daylight to be sent to the frontlines.

Your country, the UK, now supports one of the worst tyrannical police states in modern history, and is now planning to send their own military to support this abomination.

 

[lifepsyop]

BTW, I saw Zelensky threaten Vance when he said he would feel war soon in the future.

Yea, like a common extortionist, the rat was attempting to sow fear in the American public generally. "Support our war or suffer yourselves"

Trump saw that he was trying to gain leverage with fear propaganda and immediately shut him down. Good for him.

 

[lifepsyop]

No, Zelensky is not sowing fear. Very few Americans felt fear from his statements.

That was exactly what he was trying to do, whether or not it had any effect. "Big Bad Putin is coming for you next!" That has been the whole narrative since the beginning. Of course Zelensky was intending to play up those fears to an American audience... what else would he be doing?

He didn't get much of a chance with Trump and Vance in the room, though.

Those who did feel fear most likely live in perpectual state of fear, which is actually not a Christian trait.

I would tend to agree with that. Some Americans also have an obsessive hatred of Russia and would happily sacrifice every last Ukrainian on the battlefield if it meant inflicting a little more damage on them.

 

[BPPLEE]

Trump’s row with Zelenskyy recalls Obama, Biden humiliations of Netanyahu

The clash between President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodmyr Zelenskyy has led analysts to recall the treatment meted out by the Obama and Biden administrations against Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

www.foxnews.com

JERUSALEM, Israel - Democratic lawmakers' reactions to last week's public row between President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodmyr Zelenskyy set off a firestorm of criticism, yet comparisons of how Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was treated by Presidents Joe Biden and Barack Obama have critics calling foul.

However, one key difference is the outrage over the White House spat with Zelenskyy was not mirrored in the same way in the court of public opinion after Biden and Obama launched verbal attacks, including profanity-laced tirades, against Netanyahu.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

My listening and reading comprehension are fine. This is evident by the fact that I pointed to the context of the "feel" statement. I'll repost with a more extensive explanation.

What did Zelensky say? He said:



The word "but" is a connective in English. It creates a relationship between the clause which follows it and the clause which proceeds it.

By using the word "but" Zelensky is making a connection between "everybody has problems" and "you ... don't feel now." Why would he make that connection?

It's because he is saying that America (i.e., "you") does not have problems from the war right now.

He goes on to add another "but" to connect the clause "you'll feel it in the future." Again, drawing upon the context, he is saying that America will have problems from the war in the future.

This is a non-controversial statement. The war in Ukraine will impact America.

But, Trump is emotionally insecure and actually does have listening and reading comprehension problems. So he responds with a "you're not the boss of me" quip.

You're grasping at straws. Look at the last part of the statement.

"but you’ll feel it in the future."

Also, was this a threat against Vance?

 

[Michie]

Trump admin wants public apology from Zelenskyy before moving forward with minerals deal | Fox News Video

Fox News' Peter Doocy reports the latest on fallout from Zelenskyy's heated Oval Office meeting with President Donald Trump. Former U.S. ambassador to the EU Gordon Sondland joined 'The Faulkner Focus' to weigh as he faces calls to resign.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Michie]

 

[lifepsyop]

He said America would experience problems as a result of the war. This statement is non-controversial. We have, we are, and we will continue to experience problems from the war.

Zelensky's position was that we would feel negative effects if we did not continue to give him more money and weapons.

We have already felt the effect of wasting $300 billion dollars on the corrupt Zelensky regime to prolong the war.

I personally feel a little dirtier and demoralized with every new video I see of Zelensky's thugs beating up young men and throwing them in vans, and knowing my country helped fund those scumbags.

Why did the worldwide press largely see this event as Trump and Vance embarrassing the US rather than Zelensky fearmongering?

Is that supposed to be a joke? The "worldwide press" hates Trump with about as much passion as they hate Russia.

It's because most of them realize that Zelensky was not fearmongering. They understand his situation, and they understand that fearmongering would run counter to his goals.

"understand his situation" ... You're talking about western government funded press outlets who literally exist to advance NATO goals and demonize Russia. No offense, but you seem pretty naive about this whole situation.

Yes, that's because Trump and Vance deployed a steamroller. They kept interrupting and talking over him.

Why should they have to talk over him in the first place? It's Trump and Vance's office and if they're speaking then Zelensky should show respect and keep his mouth shut, and wait till they're finished to respond. Zelensky was acting like an entitled petulant brat, continuously interrupting his hosts.

50 years of American propaganda against Russia will do that, but not all of that propaganda was wrong. As someone who works in cybersecurity, I can tell you that Russia is the primary APT followed closely by China.

Kind of makes one wonder if we should be funding coups and wars on their border? Almost like that kind of action could be viewed as a provocation.

 

[Michie]

Trump hits Zelenskyy for 'worst statement' on war with Russia, says US 'will not put up with it' much longer​

Zelenskyy claimed an end to war with Russia is 'very, very far away'​

President Donald Trump once again attacked Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Monday after the Ukrainian leader suggested the end of its war with Russia remains "very, very far away."

Trump made the statement on social media, reacting to news reports of Zelenskyy's comments. The White House has said it wants a public apology from Zelenskyy for a contentious meeting with Trump and Vice President JD Vance on Friday.

"This is the worst statement that could have been made by Zelenskyy, and America will not put up with it for much longer! It is what I was saying. This guy doesn’t want there to be Peace as long as he has America’s backing," Trump wrote.

"Europe, in the meeting they had with Zelenskyy, stated flatly that they cannot do the job without the U.S. – Probably not a great statement to have been made in terms of a show of strength against Russia. What are they thinking?" he added.

Continued below.

Trump hits Zelenskyy for 'worst statement' on war with Russia, says US 'will not put up with it' much longer

President Donald Trump blasted Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Monday, further straining tensions.

www.foxnews.com

 

[ozso]

JD Vance gives his insights into what took place during the oval office meeting with President Zelenskyy.

 

[trophy33]

You should read/watch more non-USA media to get also some outside views and information about various topics.

The reality of the world is not divided into Republicans vs Democrats.

 

[lifepsyop]

Got any links with verification of these videos?

new videos are posted every week.

these kidnappings/forced conscriptions are routine events in Ukraine that occur in broad daylight.

keyword search "ukraine kidnap van"

many videos here:

https://x.com/search?q=ukraine%20kidnap%20van&src=typed_query

if you're unable to admit this is happening, then this disqualifies you from any further discussion on the topic, imho


it is morally rotten to support this.

 

[Richard T]

It won't change because liberal and conservatives don't think alike, and in today's politics, no one will reach across the table. If the EU wants to continue

How do you know? In my youth, I wanted to work overseas and bring back FEIE money.

So let me get this straight: when Russia invades Ukraine again and targets American companies, killing American workers, you don't think the USA will respond? It's only common sense we do. There is nothing wrong with neutrality, even allowing Russian companies to enter the market.

There won't be that many American workers. Sure some adminstrators and bean counters. I don't think that Russia would target them. Also, do we really know the profitability of Ukraine's future mining operations? Just speculation and with the cut Ukraine and the USA is going to take what will the companies get? All the risk it seems like. There is no business plan or loan guarantees. I like raw hope but Ukraine could refuse to pay anytime. Likely if the dems took over they would forgive most of the debt anyway. When your broke your broke, and a war torn rebuilding country that is heavily indebted is a poor risk. Russia is not different. No Americans died in the business sector that I know of. However, American companies pulled out of Russia and simply took their losses. Ukraine paying back the USA or anyone is like saying Iraq would pay us back with oil . A dream unattached to reality.

 

[Laodicean60]

There won't be that many American workers.

I don't have a crystal ball but I've seen in the past where American contractors advertise for overseas work, and some offer hazard pay. I would still go overseas for EFIE benefits, among other tax breaks, now that the kids are gone, but my age might be a problem.

I don't think that Russia would target them.

I know Russia won't, especially with this President, we'd clean their clocks. This is why I think it a good security arrangement.

Ukraine paying back the USA or anyone is like saying Iraq would pay us back with oil .

No, we started the war with Iraq and are paying for it to this day. Kuwait is a different story.

 

[Richard T]

Here are the top miners worldwide. World's Top 10 Largest Mining Companies - Seasia.co Many are fairly specific about what products they will mine. I am not even sure Ukraine mines are a good fit for USA companies. Perhaps what Trump has in mind is to sell off the Ukraine leases for minerals to the highest bidder? that would create more value I think in terms of repayment. More likely though wants to control the mining to bring in American corporations. But just like Southern Copper, one of the USA biggest miners. You really think they have many employees in Peru? even the board of directors is not entirely American. click on the names listed here. SCCO | Southern Copper Corp. Company Profile & Executives - WSJ

 

[Laodicean60]

Here are the top miners worldwide. World's Top 10 Largest Mining Companies - Seasia.co Many are fairly specific about what products they will mine. I am not even sure Ukraine mines are a good fit for USA companies. Perhaps what Trump has in mind is to sell off the Ukraine leases for minerals to the highest bidder? that would create more value I think in terms of repayment. More likely though wants to control the mining to bring in American corporations. But just like Southern Copper, one of the USA biggest miners. You really think they have many employees in Peru? even the board of directors is not entirely American. click on the names listed here. SCCO | Southern Copper Corp. Company Profile & Executives - WSJ

I think it's more in line with corporations, but also, Ukraine and the USA need more processing facilities because China does most of it for the world.

 

[lifepsyop]

I don't use X (or any other social media),

how convenient for whatever narrative you want to tell yourself, since X is one of the few non-censored media sites that might challenge it.


so you asked for links of the kidnappings / forced conscriptions in Ukraine,

I linked you directly to a collection of video evidence,

and you've completely ignored them.


hey, it's just like Zelensky dodged the truth when Vance brought up the same issue.

 

[rebornfree]

It's hard to imagine how transforming your country into a majority Muslim nation is part of a Christian worldview, but maybe that is a British thing I don't fully understand.

In any case, you are not allowed to say you want to end Muslim immigration, without police showing up at your door at least. Like you said, that would be interpreted as "racism".

That is a fundamental question of immigration, of what the nature of your country will become, that you have no freedom to discuss.



"except when someone is inciting violence", see there you go. If you criticize LGBT lifestyle, then you are 'inciting violence' against the LGBT community. It's that simple, and those encounters with law enforcement are documented.

At the very least, your speech is heavily suppressed with the threat of the law looming over you.



I think it is arguable that Russians, especially Russian Christians, have much more freedom then you yourself do. That may produce some cognitive dissonance since you've always been taught that the west is the free world.

Political dissent may seem more open in the UK, but that's only because you aren't dissenting against any real locus of power.

You are not ruled by politicians, but by an ideology.

You are free to switch out any number of political leaders, but if you dissent from the ideology, you will, as discussed, find officers appearing on your doorstep.

Whatever you think of supposed restrictions on political dissent in Russia, (Putin is extremely popular with the people generally, like it or not), the situation is far, far worse in Ukraine where political opposition is quite literally banned, and young men who don't want to fight in Zelensky's war are routinely kidnapped in broad daylight to be sent to the frontlines.

Your country, the UK, now supports one of the worst tyrannical police states in modern history, and is now planning to send their own military to support this abomination.

Immigration is not a religious thing. It's a legal one based upon a person's right to be here. Some immigrants may be Muslim, because of our historic relationships with countries where that was the major religion. However the UK is very unlikely to become Muslim as only 6% of the population identify as such. I doubt that most people would want to end Muslim immigration. What we are concerned about is being able to sustain the numbers; an issue which is freely debated.

As I said, the LGBT issue is harder to deal with. Actually the Muslims are on the same side as us on that, being concerned, as we are, about what is taught children in school. Christians are trying to retain our right to practice what we believe, but it's sad that some institutions have had to close because they can't support gay adoption, for example. I imagine Russian Christians do have more freedom, on this issue, as homosexual behaviour is not encouraged in Russia.

Ukraine is at war through no fault of it's own. (That is my objection to Russia. It would invade another country.) Different conditions apply in wartime. They did here in WWII. I don't like to hear about the press gangs though.

I must bow out of the discussion now, due to time restraints, but believe me we don't have the police knocking on our doors just because we express a view. There would have to have been an intimidating incident for that to happen.

Sorry I haven't answered each point separately. I've forgotten how to do that!

God bless!

 

[BobRyan]

...

What did Zelensky say? He said:

The word "but" is a connective in English. It creates a relationship between the clause which follows it and the clause which proceeds it.

By using the word "but" Zelensky is making a connection between "everybody has problems" and "you ... don't feel now." Why would he make that connection?

It's because he is saying that America (i.e., "you") does not have problems from the war right now.

He goes on to add another "but" to connect the clause "you'll feel it in the future." Again, drawing upon the context, he is saying that America will have problems from the war in the future.

This is a non-controversial statement. The war in Ukraine will impact America.

true.

The piece that is not getting reported is that Zelensky repeatedly poked Trump by denying even the most obvious and true statements said by Trump leading up to that horrible ending.

...
=========================== AND THEN ...
Zelensky's repeated pokes at Trump leading up to the horrible ending event.

Trump appeals for peace and ending bloodshed citing the fact that a number of cities in Ukraine were reduced to rubble so there is a strong incentive to seek for peace.

Zelensky then argues that Trump's info must be coming from Russia.

A number of exchanges happened where nothing at all was said in response to Zelensky's repeated pokes at the bear.
Until finally that ending event.