Trump, Vance and Zelenskyy spar over Russian war in tense exchange at White House

[ozso]

Where? Please provide quote.

It started with:

Zelenskyy: “OK. So he (Putin) occupied it, our parts, big parts of Ukraine, parts of east and Crimea. So he occupied it in 2014. So during a lot of years — I’m not speaking about just Biden, but those times was (Barack) Obama, then President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now President Trump. And God bless, now, President Trump will stop him. But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took. He killed people. You know what the –”

Full transcript: What was said in heated Trump, Zelenskyy and Vance argument in the Oval Office

The argument led to the rest of Zelenskyy's visit being canceled and called into question how much the U.S. will still support Ukraine.

nationalpost.com

 

[lifepsyop]

Given the scenario we are are currently in, with Trump insisting Ukraine surrender to Russia in exchange for trillion$ in mineral rights to the U$..
the complaint would be true from a Ukrainian perspective - would it not?

True from an EU/Atlanticist elite perspective.

The Ukrainian people probably wouldn't be complaining. Surrender would be a mercy to them. There's quite a large compilation of video now of young men being kidnapped and thrown into vans to go die. Right now they are essentially a slave army in a proxy war between western elites and Russia.

It has the appearance of Russia invading and conquering and the US swooping in to help divide the spoils.

But that is only the appearance from low information propaganda.

Reality shows that Russia didn't just swoop in to conquer. They had entirely legitimate existential concerns.

 

[FenderTL5]

It started with:

Zelenskyy: “OK. So he (Putin) occupied it, our parts, big parts of Ukraine, parts of east and Crimea. So he occupied it in 2014. So during a lot of years — I’m not speaking about just Biden, but those times was (Barack) Obama, then President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now President Trump. And God bless, now, President Trump will stop him. But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took. He killed people. You know what the –”

Full transcript: What was said in heated Trump, Zelenskyy and Vance argument in the Oval Office

The argument led to the rest of Zelenskyy's visit being canceled and called into question how much the U.S. will still support Ukraine.

nationalpost.com

What part of that is untrue?

 

[FenderTL5]

Reality shows that Russia didn't just swoop in to conquer. They had entirely legitimate existential concerns.

Do tell.

 

[lifepsyop]

There's been a lot of blame the victim attacks on Zelensky here yet it seems that he is being attacked for simply pointing out that parts of Ukraine has been occupied by Russia since 2014 and that period includes Trump's first term; and also pointing out that Putin cannot be trusted to keep to a ceasefire agreement based on his record.

Ukraine is being occupied right now by the foreign-backed Zelensky regime.

He is probably going to be put up against the wall by his own people when this is all over.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

That's not what Zelensky said, though.

Then you didn't watch the video of Zelensky with Trump and Vance, or you're in denial.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Trump wants to broker peace so he can brag about it and expect the Nobel Prize.

He sees that the only way to broker peace is for Ukraine to do some giving up because Russia certainly wont. What concessions do you think Putin is willing to make?

So he must pressure Zelensky who is most vulnerable to back down.
And if he will not back down make him look disrespectful, ungrateful and unreasonable.

That meeting was entirely staged like a scene from The Apprentice.

Good if peace is Trump's bragging rights, then let him have it.

However, that's not what I believe is motivating him. The national debt which
has the US on the edge of bankruptcy needs to be fixed and this is Trump's real goal.

 

[lifepsyop]

Do tell.

Do you not know? This is all well known information by now.

Ukraine legitimately elected a President.

That President was not antagonistic enough towards Russia, so western elites sponsored a violent coup/insurrection (2014 Euromaidan) and had that president chased out of the country, and installed a more western/NATO-friendly government.

As a result, Russia stood to lose an extremely vital naval access in Crimea. (existential) and had no choice but to secure it.

Those are just some of the facts that show Russia is reacting to an existential crisis on their border, not simply acting as conquering invaders.

 

[Vanellus]

It coincides with what I heard. It started out with Zelenskyy complaining about what a lousy job the United States has been doing, going back to President Obama. Basically accusing the United States of mishandling the whole affair and criticizing the US as being ineffective.

That's where it started going sour.

But to those who are diametrically opposed to their own President, they'll always take someone else's side. I wouldn't be surprised to see them take Putin's side in a similar situation. When Trump and Kim Jong Un were going at it, they basically took Jung Un's side by going against their own President. Whining about how Trump was going to start WW3 by showing some backbone. And then when Trump smoothed out the situation and got on amicable terms with Jong Un they whined about him being friends with a dictator.

These are the same people who took the side of terrorists over the democracy they attacked.

This is a biased interpretation of Zelensky's words. He didn't use the word "lousy" or anything like it. He did point out that parts of Ukraine have been occupied since 2014 and that period includes Trump's first term. This is factually correct. But maybe pointing out facts is considered disrespectful in Trumpland.

from the transcript:

OK. So he (Putin) occupied it, our parts, big parts of Ukraine, parts of east and Crimea. So he occupied it in 2014. So during a lot of years — I’m not speaking about just Biden, but those times was (Barack) Obama, then President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now President Trump. And God bless, now, President Trump will stop him. But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took. He killed people. You know what the -- Yes, but during 2014 ‘til 2022, the situation is the same, that people have been dying on the contact line. Nobody stopped him. You know that we had conversations with him, a lot of conversations, my bilateral conversation. And we signed with him, me, like, you, president, in 2019, I signed with him the deal. I signed with him, (French President Emmanuel) Macron and (former German Chancellor Angela) Merkel. We signed ceasefire. Ceasefire. All of them told me that he will never go … But after that, he broke the ceasefire, he killed our people, and he didn’t exchange prisoners. We signed the exchange of prisoners. But he didn’t do it. What kind of diplomacy, JD, you are speaking about? What do you mean?”

It was inappropriate for Trump and Vance to try to use Ukraine's situation to score domestic party political points. When it comes to war petty party politics should be laid aside. It also seems to be the case that the Trump administration is trying to use Ukraine's situation to exploit its mineral wealth in a manner similar to the exploitation of much of the third world in colonial times until now.

 

[Vanellus]

Zelenskyy complained about the US being ineffective in helping him.

That's your interpretation given he didn't use that word. But he did point out that parts of Ukraine have been occupied by Russia since 2014 and that fighting has been going on since 2014.

 

[FenderTL5]

As a result, Russia stood to lose an extremely vital naval access in Crimea. (existential) and had no choice but to secure it.

..simply acting as conquering invaders.

So, in your opinion Crimea was Russia's to occupy secure in 2014?
Are you Russian?

 

[Vanellus]

Ukraine is being occupied right now by the foreign-backed Zelensky regime.

He is probably going to be put up against the wall by his own people when this is all over.

Zelensky was elected by his own people gaining 73% of the votes cast - much higher than Trump. Who was the last US president to win by such a margin?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Then you didn't watch the video of Zelensky with Trump and Vance, or you're in denial.

I want to know exactly what you are referring to.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took. He killed people. You know what the –”

So I can only guess you mean this part.

Simply a statement of fact offends you?

 

[ozso]

That's your interpretation given he didn't use that word. But he did point out that parts of Ukraine have been occupied by Russia since 2014 and that fighting has been going on since 2014.

I heard about Trump and Vance getting annoyed with Zelenskyy, so I listened to the exchange, and I understood why they got irritated.

 

[ozso]

So I can only guess you mean this part.

Simply a statement of fact offends you?

No that's just where it started out. And I'm personally not offended. But after I heard the whole exchange, I understood why Trump and Vance got irritated.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

No that's just where it started out. And I'm personally not offended. But after I heard the whole exchange, I understood why Trump and Vance got irritated.

Why then? What quotes?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

This was pretty offensive to Biden
Vance: “For four years, the United States of America, we had a president who stood up at press conferences and talked tough about Vladimir Putin, and then Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk of the country. The path to peace and the path to prosperity is, maybe, engaging in diplomacy. We tried the pathway of Joe Biden, of thumping our chest and pretending that the president of the United States’ words mattered more than the president of the United States’ actions. What makes America a good country is America engaging in diplomacy. That’s what President Trump is doing.”

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I want to know exactly what you are referring to.

Zelensky: First of all, during the war, everybody has problems, even you, you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future.

Trump: You don't know that.

MSN

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Or this?

That he recounts the breaking of ceasefire deal in the past? The simply asks a question.

Zelenskyy: “Yes, but during 2014 ’til 2022, the situation is the same, that people have been dying on the contact line. Nobody stopped him. You know that we had conversations with him, a lot of conversations, my bilateral conversation. And we signed with him, me, like, you, president, in 2019, I signed with him the deal. I signed with him, (French President Emmanuel) Macron and (former German Chancellor Angela) Merkel. We signed ceasefire. Ceasefire. All of them told me that he will never go … But after that, he broke the ceasefire, he killed our people, and he didn’t exchange prisoners. We signed the exchange of prisoners. But he didn’t do it. What kind of diplomacy, JD, you are speaking about? What do you mean?”