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US and Ukraine agree terms on minerals deal, two sources say

Always in His Presence

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That is something Zelenskyy wanted to talk about. But he was always interrupted or dismissed with vague statements only. He still, till today, does not know what Trump offers
That is completely wrong - the agreement has been in his hands for weeks - they have been negotiating the terms of the agreement through direct and diplomatic channels and the only thing left was to sign it.

Then the man disrespects the office and the President and shoots himself in the foot while grand standing. and was requested to leave - "come back when you want peace".

I hope he does come back and behaves like the leader of a nation shoud.
 
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trophy33

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That is completely wrong - the agreement has been in his hands for weeks - they have been negotiating the terms of the agreement through direct and diplomatic channels and the only thing left was to sign it.
According to Zelenskyy, he still does not know what guarantees Ukraine will get for those minerals. Do you?
 
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Servus

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Well, I suppose you know something about the situation when you came here to make bold MAGA-like statements. I cannot teach you everything.
Total deflection.
Again, I cannot teach you diplomacy here. I am not a diplomat. Google or something, if you are not used to see two presidents debating and what is the standard protocol for that - what happened yesterday was not normal.
Sounds like you're making stuff up that sounds right to you.
One example - "It is not at all protocol-wise conceivable for a vice president to address, much less challenge, a head of state of another country on such an occasion without asking his own president if he could speak. This was something absolutely incredible from a diplomatic point of view."
And what's the source of that rule?
Imagine somebody from the Ukraine's delegation to talk to Trump as they wish.
If they're invited by Zelenskyy to do so, I see no problem with it.
 
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Always in His Presence

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According to Zelenskyy, he still does not know what guarantees Ukraine will get for those minerals. Do you?
I was not part of those talks - where you? You honestly think that American will put their people, who help develop the mining of those materials, in harms way?
This is just the narrative that seems prepared by your current administration. Nothing about yesterday was normal.
You are right - no world leader has been disrespectful and rude to a sitting President who is aiming to help him like Zalinsky

oh and btw

Skutečná naděje se nachází v Ježíši Kristu
 
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trophy33

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I was not part of those talks - where you? You honestly think that American will put their people, who help develop the mining of those materials, in harms way?
Rhetorical question is not a security guarantee, though. Instead of portioning of Ukraine between Russia and the USA, the deal should be clearly specified.

You are right - no world leader has been disrespectful and rude to a sitting President who is aiming to help him like Zalinsky
His name is Zelenskyy (in English transcription). And he was just reacting to the situation.
 
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Always in His Presence

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Our Secretary of State explains it well:

It's a security guarantee in it's own way -


Note the proper spelling of his name in English - Zelensky
 
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iluvatar5150

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I was not part of those talks - where you? You honestly think that American will put their people, who help develop the mining of those materials, in harms way?

You are right - no world leader has been disrespectful and rude to a sitting President who is aiming to help him like Zalinsky

oh and btw

Skutečná naděje se nachází v Ježíši Kristu

This notion that he was “rude” to Trump/Vance, much less the US is just wild. It’s like we’re not even watching the same event. Everything started off fine (or at least fine relative to Trump’s usual baseline) until Vance chimed in with his comment bashing Biden (and, by extension, past negotiators including Zelensky), saying that now we were going to try real diplomacy. Zelensky pushed back, saying they’d already tried that and Putin violated the agreements. That set Vance off, complaining that Zelensky was “litigating it in front of the American media” and then going off on a tirade about how he’s prosecuting the war.

Vance was the one who initiated any open disrespect. They, Vance in particular, were dripping with contempt for him.

That said, I have less issue with the fighting and the tone of the conversation than I do with the substance of it. Between Trump’s earlier comments about Ukraine starting the war, Zelensky being a dictator, and now this, the two of them are obviously looking for ways to throw Zelensky under the bus.

At the end, a reporter repeats Zelensky concern, asking what if Putin violates his agreements, and Trump’s response is little more than “trust me”.

Trump, Vance, and their acolytes are caving to Putin just like we all said they would.
 
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Always in His Presence

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SimplyMe

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The 350 billion dollars is just spare change attitude is what got the US so deeply into debt.

The 350 billion dollars is a lie by Trump, we haven't even given half of that. It is also worth noting that our European allies have given more than we have -- and far more if you go by per capital payments.

It is also worth noting that not that much money has been sent to Ukraine. For example, most of the military aid given has been given to US defense contractors; either we shipped old equipment (such as the Abrams M1A1) and had contractors build newer replacements (like the Abrams M1A2) to replace what was shipped, or they built things like artillery shells (after we depleted our older stock of munitions) and sent it directly to Ukraine.

Most of the rest of the military aid to Ukraine was paid to the US military, it was paid for US military members to train members of the Ukrainian military and house and feed them during training. Of course, the US has also benefitted from what our European allies have sent to Ukraine -- such as with the F-16. The US has not provided any F-16s to Ukraine. Instead, it is the Netherlands and Denmark that have supplied the F-16s; and the US has received contracts with both countries to replace the F-16s they are giving to Ukraine with US built F-35s. Additionally, two more countries, Norway and Belgium, have stated they will supply Ukraine with F-16s (again, those planes are being replaced with F-35s).

All Zelensky had to do was agree to the terms the aid giver wanted. Instead he decided to try calling the shots and bite the hand that's feeding him.

You mean, all Zelensky had to do was give Trump a blank check -- give Trump the minerals he wanted from Ukraine (worth far in excess of what the US has given Ukraine) but not have any promises in return. Zelensky had always maintained, even before coming to the US, that there had to be security guarantees.

Unlike most in the US, Zelensky remembers that the US promised to defend Ukraine, if Ukraine got rid of its (the Soviet Union's that were located in Ukraine) nuclear weapons. Since that was merely a verbal promise, and not one put into writing, American Presidents have been ignoring it for more than the last decade. Zelensky is not going to make that mistake again, this time he wants protections spelled out in writing -- because history (at least Putin's history while in power) is that he will rebuild his army and attack again once they are built up.

Despite Zelensky always stating that he needed security promises, to keep Ukraine from attacking, Trump would not put them in writing (essentially not giving any type of security or aid promises, at all). It was the Trump White House that changed the deal, from what had been agreed to, and just wanted Zelensky to "trust them."

It is also worth noting that, in the aftermath of the meeting, our allies sided with Zelensky (there are more statements, but that article has a nice selection). Many also mentioned how the US is no longer a reliable partner and that they need to find a new leader, since the US can't be depended on.

It also begs the question, how did Russian state-owned news, TASS, get into the press conference in the Oval Office? The Trump administration won't even let some news agencies like AP and Reuters into the White House, but somehow Russian-state media not only got in the White House but into the Oval Office, to see Trump and Vance belittle Zelensky. This is definitely the type of thing that makes it appear the berating of Zelensky was done intentionally.
 
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essentialsaltes

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That is completely wrong - the agreement has been in his hands for weeks - they have been negotiating the terms of the agreement through direct and diplomatic channels and the only thing left was to sign it.
Per your OP:

A source familiar with the contents of the draft agreement said that it does not specify any U.S. security guarantees or continued flow of weapons

One of the sources familiar with the deal said future weapons shipments are still being discussed between Washington and Kyiv.


Certainly Trump wanted Zelenskyy to sign it, but it was not a done deal and was missing the very thing Ukraine desperately needs.
 
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Servus

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The 350 billion dollars is a lie by Trump, we haven't even given half of that. It is also worth noting that our European allies have given more than we have -- and far more if you go by per capital payments.

It is also worth noting that not that much money has been sent to Ukraine. For example, most of the military aid given has been given to US defense contractors; either we shipped old equipment (such as the Abrams M1A1) and had contractors build newer replacements (like the Abrams M1A2) to replace what was shipped, or they built things like artillery shells (after we depleted our older stock of munitions) and sent it directly to Ukraine.

Most of the rest of the military aid to Ukraine was paid to the US military, it was paid for US military members to train members of the Ukrainian military and house and feed them during training. Of course, the US has also benefitted from what our European allies have sent to Ukraine -- such as with the F-16. The US has not provided any F-16s to Ukraine. Instead, it is the Netherlands and Denmark that have supplied the F-16s; and the US has received contracts with both countries to replace the F-16s they are giving to Ukraine with US built F-35s. Additionally, two more countries, Norway and Belgium, have stated they will supply Ukraine with F-16s (again, those planes are being replaced with F-35s).



You mean, all Zelensky had to do was give Trump a blank check -- give Trump the minerals he wanted from Ukraine (worth far in excess of what the US has given Ukraine) but not have any promises in return. Zelensky had always maintained, even before coming to the US, that there had to be security guarantees.

Unlike most in the US, Zelensky remembers that the US promised to defend Ukraine, if Ukraine got rid of its (the Soviet Union's that were located in Ukraine) nuclear weapons. Since that was merely a verbal promise, and not one put into writing, American Presidents have been ignoring it for more than the last decade. Zelensky is not going to make that mistake again, this time he wants protections spelled out in writing -- because history (at least Putin's history while in power) is that he will rebuild his army and attack again once they are built up.

Despite Zelensky always stating that he needed security promises, to keep Ukraine from attacking, Trump would not put them in writing (essentially not giving any type of security or aid promises, at all). It was the Trump White House that changed the deal, from what had been agreed to, and just wanted Zelensky to "trust them."

It is also worth noting that, in the aftermath of the meeting, our allies sided with Zelensky (there are more statements, but that article has a nice selection). Many also mentioned how the US is no longer a reliable partner and that they need to find a new leader, since the US can't be depended on.

It also begs the question, how did Russian state-owned news, TASS, get into the press conference in the Oval Office? The Trump administration won't even let some news agencies like AP and Reuters into the White House, but somehow Russian-state media not only got in the White House but into the Oval Office, to see Trump and Vance belittle Zelensky. This is definitely the type of thing that makes it appear the berating of Zelensky was done intentionally.
It depends on what timetable one is going by in money spent by the US on foreign aid. I got 62 billion for 2023, so multiply just number by 5 years and that's close enough.

I listened to Zelenskyy before reading hearing commentary on it. I heard him calling the shots and criticizing past aid and efforts made by the US.
 
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iluvatar5150

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All you lack now is proof.
What an odd comment. What sort of proof would you want for that opinion? What sort of proof could I even provide? Trump’s first answer in the video both-sides the situation over there, presenting the war as two mutual antagonists who hate each other. In earlier comments, he called Zelensky a dictator and said he started the war. You and others here are praising Trump for being tough and putting Zelensky in his place.

If that’s not caving to Putin, what is?
 
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Pam Bondi in her first day as Attourney General for the DOJ
The U.S. Justice Department under President Donald Trump is disbanding an effort started after Russia's 2022 invasion of Ukraine to enforce sanctions and target oligarchs close to the Kremlin.

In Trump's first term in office, one of the first things they did was to remove sanctions against the Russians
Sanctions on Russia were to be "ripped up" early in the Trump administration, then-national security adviser Mike Flynn said on Inauguration Day, according to new information released Wednesday.
 
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The 350 billion dollars is a lie by Trump, we haven't even given half of that. It is also worth noting that our European allies have given more than we have -- and far more if you go by per capital payments.

It is also worth noting that not that much money has been sent to Ukraine. For example, most of the military aid given has been given to US defense contractors; either we shipped old equipment (such as the Abrams M1A1) and had contractors build newer replacements (like the Abrams M1A2) to replace what was shipped, or they built things like artillery shells (after we depleted our older stock of munitions) and sent it directly to Ukraine.

Most of the rest of the military aid to Ukraine was paid to the US military, it was paid for US military members to train members of the Ukrainian military and house and feed them during training. Of course, the US has also benefitted from what our European allies have sent to Ukraine -- such as with the F-16. The US has not provided any F-16s to Ukraine. Instead, it is the Netherlands and Denmark that have supplied the F-16s; and the US has received contracts with both countries to replace the F-16s they are giving to Ukraine with US built F-35s. Additionally, two more countries, Norway and Belgium, have stated they will supply Ukraine with F-16s (again, those planes are being replaced with F-35s).



You mean, all Zelensky had to do was give Trump a blank check -- give Trump the minerals he wanted from Ukraine (worth far in excess of what the US has given Ukraine) but not have any promises in return. Zelensky had always maintained, even before coming to the US, that there had to be security guarantees.

Unlike most in the US, Zelensky remembers that the US promised to defend Ukraine, if Ukraine got rid of its (the Soviet Union's that were located in Ukraine) nuclear weapons. Since that was merely a verbal promise, and not one put into writing, American Presidents have been ignoring it for more than the last decade. Zelensky is not going to make that mistake again, this time he wants protections spelled out in writing -- because history (at least Putin's history while in power) is that he will rebuild his army and attack again once they are built up.

Despite Zelensky always stating that he needed security promises, to keep Ukraine from attacking, Trump would not put them in writing (essentially not giving any type of security or aid promises, at all). It was the Trump White House that changed the deal, from what had been agreed to, and just wanted Zelensky to "trust them."

It is also worth noting that, in the aftermath of the meeting, our allies sided with Zelensky (there are more statements, but that article has a nice selection). Many also mentioned how the US is no longer a reliable partner and that they need to find a new leader, since the US can't be depended on.

It also begs the question, how did Russian state-owned news, TASS, get into the press conference in the Oval Office? The Trump administration won't even let some news agencies like AP and Reuters into the White House, but somehow Russian-state media not only got in the White House but into the Oval Office, to see Trump and Vance belittle Zelensky. This is definitely the type of thing that makes it appear the berating of Zelensky was done intentionally.
1740867446371.jpeg
 
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BPPLEE

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Plots with out axis values are useless.

Data from the Ukraine Support Tracker at the Kiel Institute for the World Economy released today shows that aid flow to Ukraine is constant if slow. As of Dec 31, allocations by the U.S. reached almost $120 billion, while EU institutions had allocated less than half of that.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Data from the Ukraine Support Tracker at the Kiel Institute for the World Economy released today shows that aid flow to Ukraine is constant if slow. As of Dec 31, allocations by the U.S. reached almost $120 billion, while EU institutions had allocated less than half of that.
"EU Institutions" means specifically the EU and its component organizations -- NOT EU member countries. If you want to see the total "EU contribution" then add that total to the extra provided directly (not through EU). (Also, remember UK is in Europe, but not part of the EU. Go figure.)
 
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