US and Ukraine agree terms on minerals deal, two sources say

[trophy33]

Based on your say-so of course.

No, just because it did not happen. If Trump/Vance actually let Zelenskyy speak, giving him some more time, realizing English is not his native language, it would be clearer to you.

You can learn more from the recent Fox News interview with Zelenskyy, where they let him actually say what he wanted to say.

Even though his English is good enough for communicating most things, he for example was not sure what the word "regret" means in the Fox News interview. He is not equipped to immediately understand or express all nuances under the pressure Vance/Trump put him into and so facial expressions and body language is what was left for him in the White House.

 

[Servus]

Oh dear. The world's richest economy that was actually growing faster than most other OECD economies under Biden can't give spare change to overseas aid or to support a new democracy that might ultimately become a NATO ally!

The 350 billion dollars is just spare change attitude is what got the US so deeply into debt.

But let's betray the entire western world, destabilise what was a strong, reliable alliance that kept nuclear powers at bay for 70 years - and then even threaten a trade war with the western world. While rewarding a dictator that invaded a democracy!

WHAT IS A FAIR DEAL?
America supports Ukraine - along with the EU - with war aid until the tiny Russian economy is finally fatigued by this war and the dictator goes home with his tail between his legs. No NATO troops need to go into Ukraine for this to happen. Just a little military aid. A tiny portion of the American Federal budget - especially if they bothered to tax the rich like they did in the 1950’s and 60’s. (But we can’t have the RICH being taxed with Trump and Musk in government!)
When the Russian economy breaks, THEN we'll finally get a REAL DEAL!
Putin orders an immediate ceasefire.
Russia withdraws.
Russia pays a small but consistent percentage of GDP back to Ukraine as war reparations over time.
In return, the mighty western NATO economies lift trade bans on Russia and return to more economic and diplomatically normalised relationships. Russia’s economy would grow and prosper - and easily afford war reparations.
Now THAT’s a deal!

I can't believe I have to spell that out? How has social media made so many into myopic, navel gazing betrayers of old alliances? Do Americans even know what the letters in NATO stand for now - let alone what the organisation is actually for? (Or is that "Was" for - in the past tense?)

America has just betrayed the west.
It's over to Europe to take the lead from here.

All Zelensky had to do was agree to the terms the aid giver wanted. Instead he decided to try calling the shots and bite the hand that's feeding him.

 

[Servus]

No, just because it did not happen.

Bssed on your perspective. What you're doing is saying other perspectives aren't factual because that's not the way you saw it. What would be proper is for you to say that you disagree, rather than making a rude remark like "nothing of that is factual". And without any explanation of why you're making such a claim.

If Trump/Vance actually let Zelenskyy speak, giving him some more time, realizing English is not his native language, it would be clearer to you.

You can learn more from the recent Fox News interview with Zelenskyy, where they let him actually say what he wanted to say.

Zelensky did plenty of talking during that 50 minute meeting. 40 minutes of Zelensky talking took place before Trump and Vance started becoming irritated with him. And I'm sure they were just as aware of what all he's said in the past as you are.

So I explained what I heard Zelensky say, how about you give your version of it?

 

[eclipsenow]

 

[trophy33]

Bssed on your perspective. What you're doing is saying other perspectives aren't factual because that's not the way you saw it. What would be proper is for you to say that you disagree, rather than making a rude remark like "nothing of that is factual". And without any explanation of why you're making such a claim.

If you think it is factual, then provide me with the timestamps where you see it happening.

 

[Servus]

If you think it is factual, then provide me the timestamps where you see it happening.

So far you've provided no summary whatsoever, and now you're demanding timestamps from me. You disagree with my take it it. End of story.

 

[trophy33]

So far you've provided no summary whatsoever, and now you're demanding timestamps from me. You disagree with my take it it. End of story.

Trump wants the Ukraine's rare earths. Ukraine wants security guarantees from the US in exchange for that. Trump was unwilling to give them to him, just vague statements that he trusts Putin to keep his word.

Then, for the MAGA crowd, for cameras and probably also to create a pressure on Zelenskyy, they led him (probably, according to some diplomats) to a prepared trap, they wanted this escalation to happen. There may be also some other motives why they did that.

 

[Servus]

View attachment 361843

Trying to get both sides to meet in the middle, while also doing so, is how negotiations are achieved. Taking one side totally aginst the other is just going to perpetuate the war. The more the US helps Ukraine win that perpetuated war, the closer the US comes to being at war with Russia. Does Mitt and others really think the US being at war with Russia is a good idea?

 

[trophy33]

Trying to get both sides to meet in the middle, while also doing so, is how negotiations are achieved. Taking one side totally aginst the other is just going to perpetuate the war.

Is Trump also "in the middle" in the Hamas-Israel conflict or is he taking clear position with just one of the sides?

 

[Servus]

Trump wants the Ukraine's rare earths. Ukraine wants security guarantees from the US in exchange for that. Trump was unwilling to give them to him, just vague statements that he trusts Putin to keep his word.

Define the security guarantees Zelensky is demanding even though he's in no bargaining position whatsoever.

Then, for the MAGA crowd, for cameras and probably also to create a pressure on Zelenskyy, they led him (probably, according to some diplomats) to a prepared trap, they wanted this escalation to happen.

Yes, yes, there's always a nefarious plot involved.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Do you know why was he invited? I will give you a hint, it was not because of a charity. Trump wants him to sign something.

Yup and all he had to do is have a photo opt, eat lunch and walk away with a deal that will help his country immensely.

Diplomacy is two ways.

Having watched the exchange it seemed like Zelensky was basically dictating how the US is supposed to aid him. 'That's no good, it's not good enough, the aid given in the past was inadequate and or useless, and this is what needs to be given instead'.

And instead of kowtowing to that Trump basically told him he was in no position to make any demands. It's the one who is supplying the aid who's in the position of dictating how that aid is going to be given and under what terms it's going to be given.

If Zelensky doesn't like it he can go elsewhere like, um... Yeah the US is really all he's got in getting anything of significance.

QFT

 

[trophy33]

Yup and all he had to do is have a photo opt, eat lunch and walk away with a deal that will help his country immensely.

Who, Trump?

 

[trophy33]

Define the security guarantees Zelensky is demanding even though he's in no bargaining position whatsoever.

That is something Zelenskyy wanted to talk about. But he was always interrupted or dismissed with vague statements only. He still, till today, does not know what Trump offers. He only knows what Trump wants.

Yes, yes, there's always a nefarious plot involved.

Certainly not always. But what your current administration played yesterday was so extraordinary that it is almost impossible to happen by accident. There are diplomatic rules and safeguards against such things.

 

[Servus]

Is Trump also "in the middle" in the Hamas-Israel conflict or is he taking clear position with just one of the sides?

Whatever the case there's been a ceasefire since Trump has been in office.

 

[trophy33]

Whatever the case there's been a ceasefire since Trump has been in office.

Ah, its "whatever the case", suddenly.

 

[Servus]

That is something Zelenskyy wanted to talk about. But he was always interrupted or dismissed with vague statements only. He still, till today, does not know what Trump offers. He only knows what Trump wants.

Like what? You keep making claims about what was said without going into any detail whatsoever.

Certainly not always. But what your current administration played yesterday was so extraordinary that it is almost impossible to happen by accident. There are diplomatic rules and safeguards against such things.

And what are those rules and safeguards? Please elaborate some for once instead of just making blanket statements.

 

[Servus]

Ah, its "whatever the case", suddenly.

I'm not going to derail the thread by going in depth on a separate topic.

 

[trophy33]

I'm not going to derail the thread by going in depth on a separate topic.

No need to. This is enough for demonstrating that the US president does not need to be "in the middle" in a conflict.

 

[trophy33]

Like what? You keep making claims about what was said without going into any detail whatsoever.

Well, I suppose you know something about the situation when you came here to make bold MAGA-like statements. I cannot teach you everything.

And what are those rules and safeguards? Please elaborate some for once instead of just making blanket statements.

Again, I cannot teach you diplomacy here. I am not a diplomat. Google or something, if you are not used to see two presidents debating and what is the standard protocol for that - what happened yesterday was not normal.

One example - "It is not at all protocol-wise conceivable for a vice president to address, much less challenge, a head of state of another country on such an occasion without asking his own president if he could speak. This was something absolutely incredible from a diplomatic point of view."

Imagine somebody from the Ukraine's delegation to talk to Trump as they wish.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Who, Trump?

LOL, I see what you did there - funny stuff