Trump: Ukraine “Never Should Have Started War” with Russia

[RocksInMyHead]

Biden is the one to blame when he started giving weapons to Ukraine.

Should we not support the rights of democracies to defend themselves?

Do you blame Roosevelt for World War II? Without the Lend-Lease program, there's a decent chance Germany would have finished off Britain and Russia before we got physically involved.

 

[Hans Blaster]

That's what it's called when you do away with both elections and a free press. rightly fits the definition. He's an actual dictator and no, he's not some white knight. He's in this for all the US dollars he can funnel out of it, that's it.. he's worse, far far far worse, than a used car salesman with his silly need more money tours... How about, need a peace deal

Most of the aid the US has provided to Ukraine over the last 3 years has consisted of old or used military equipment.

And by the way, no, I don't like wars of attrition. They aren't good, at all. If we are going to do warfare let it be maneuver warfare.

There has been maneuver warfare as recently as last summer when Ukraine counter-invaded russia (and still hold russian territory). There has also been a lot of small assaults to capture one trench or village. Some go one way some go the other.

Stop this throwing bodies like cannon fodder, we have nukes for goodness sakes. If we are going to throw bodies may as well win the war in the same day.

The only force "throwing bodies" is russia. Ukraine has been quite conservative in the not taking risks on assults that will have high casualty rates. The US has *no troops* engaged in combat.

 

[durangodawood]

Biden is the one to blame when he started giving weapons to Ukraine. You can not fight a war if you do not have weapons. Of course Biden was just a puppet, but that is another thread.

Ah. I understand now that the fault for conflict lies with the armed defender, not the aggressor.

I will keep in that in mind for second amendment discussions.

 

[Hans Blaster]

From a practical perspective, how can Ukraine hope to hold free and fair elections with a significant portion of their country under active enemy occupation? Suspending elections in times of active conflict is a relatively normal provision in many democracies. The US is somewhat unusual in not doing so - though our geography makes the possibility of the scenario arising pretty unlikely. The Civil War was the last major conflict in the mainland US, and since the "enemy" were states who had chosen to leave the Union rather than an invading, occupying power, the fact that those territories wouldn't get a vote wasn't really a concern.

Such as?

And Lincoln thought he would *lose* the election of 1864 due to the slaver-appeasing "peace" movement, that was until Sherman took Atlanta.

 

[7thKeeper]

Biden is the one to blame when he started giving weapons to Ukraine. You can not fight a war if you do not have weapons. Of course Biden was just a puppet, but that is another thread.

Aah, So Russia is completely blameless and all blame lies on the person helping the invaded party.

Nope, it still doesn't make any sense even written down.

 

[7thKeeper]

It takes two to tango. You have to have weapons to have a war. We should destory them.

View attachment 361272

No, that's completely wrong. Only one side needs weapons to have a war. This is akin to you blaming a bullying victim for standing up for themselves.

 

[High Fidelity]

Biden is the one to blame when he started giving weapons to Ukraine. You can not fight a war if you do not have weapons. Of course Biden was just a puppet, but that is another thread.

So you think that they should have rolled over and submitted?

 

[Hans Blaster]

It takes two to tango. You have to have weapons to have a war. We should destory them.

View attachment 361272

The amount of US military aid sent to Ukraine in 8 years between the start of the war (11 years ago today) and the full invasion 3 years ago is tiny compared to the amount sent in the last 3 years *after* Putin invaded.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I think Biden should have minded his own business and not get involved. As Christians we believe that we are to allow God and His angels to fight the war for us.

Russia did not invade Ukraine spiritually. They used bombs, and shells, and rockets, and bullets and tanks and armored vehicles and paratroopers and helicopters and torture.

 

[Paulos23]

It takes two to tango. You have to have weapons to have a war. We should destory them.

View attachment 361272

Sometimes you need weapons to keep the peace of those more willing to use them.

 

[Paulos23]

I think Biden should have minded his own business and not get involved. As Christians we believe that we are to allow God and His angels to fight the war for us.

As a leading democracy in the world at the time, supporting another democracy with supplies is the least we could do.

Yes, war is horrible. But Ukraine was not the one to seek it.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Tiny when Trump was president.

He actually illegally withheld Congressionally appropriated aid for Ukraine in violation of the Impoundment Act.

Aid during the last two years of Obama and the first two years of Biden wasn't that large either.

I think you are missing the forest for the trees. You blamed US aid for causing the war, when it is the other way round. The war caused the massive aid.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Why is that our problem? It is up to NATO and the United Nations to deal with. Jesus will return soon and He will straighten all of this out.

I'm not going to base my geopolitical positions on your religious claims.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

The United States has sent weapons to Ukraine. Since the beginning of the conflict, the U.S. has provided significant military assistance to Ukraine, including advanced weaponry such as High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS), howitzers, and air defense systems. This support has been crucial for Ukraine in defending itself against Russian aggression.

In response, Russia has taken various retaliatory actions. For example, Russia has blamed the U.S. for Ukrainian attacks on Russian-occupied territories, such as Crimea, and has vowed retaliation. Additionally, Russia has conducted cyberattacks and other forms of retaliation against countries supporting Ukraine.

Yes, and all of this was precipitated on Russia invading Ukraine's territory.

 

[Paulos23]

The United States has sent weapons to Ukraine. Since the beginning of the conflict, the U.S. has provided significant military assistance to Ukraine, including advanced weaponry such as High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS), howitzers, and air defense systems. This support has been crucial for Ukraine in defending itself against Russian aggression.

In response, Russia has taken various retaliatory actions. For example, Russia has blamed the U.S. for Ukrainian attacks on Russian-occupied territories, such as Crimea, and has vowed retaliation. Additionally, Russia has conducted cyberattacks and other forms of retaliation against countries supporting Ukraine.

All of that was due to Russia invasion of Ukraine. Do you want us not to support them and have Ukraine roll over?

 

[Goonie]

Name a democracy that held elections while fighting openly still on its own soil. You keep wanting to avoid this pesky little detail, because it ruins your talking point. But gotta keep that Russia appeasement and lies going, right?

Says the person from a nation where news organisations get punished/excluded for daring to call the Gulf of Mexico that and active voter suppression is a thing. Or one where the loser of an election kept lying about the election being stolen from them, had a violent coup attempt, praises actual dictators, etc. And your republic is a democracy as well, those two aren't exclusionary traits. Please, you've got no ground to stand on.

Probably already answered on this thread, but 1864 USA.

 

[Hans Blaster]

The United States has sent weapons to Ukraine. Since the beginning of the conflict, the U.S. has provided significant military assistance to Ukraine, including advanced weaponry such as High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS), howitzers, and air defense systems. This support has been crucial for Ukraine in defending itself against Russian aggression.

Up to three years ago when the full invasion started the most sophisticated things the US had sent were things like the anti-tank missiles Trump tried to use as leverage over Zelinskyy. HIMARS was only sent in the Summer of 2022. Same with 155 mm-howitzers (stationary and mobile), 155-mm shells, infantry fighting vehicles (M2 Bradleys), tanks (M1 Abrams), humvees, glide bombs, M113 armored personnel carriers, PATRIOT missile batteries, and the authorization of other countries to transfer F-16 fighter jets. All in the last 3 years after the attempt to take Kyiv by russia.

In response, Russia has taken various retaliatory actions. For example, Russia has blamed the U.S. for Ukrainian attacks on Russian-occupied territories, such as Crimea, and has vowed retaliation. Additionally, Russia has conducted cyberattacks and other forms of retaliation against countries supporting Ukraine.

russia is all bluster at this point. US aid has crossed dozens of "red lines" since the invasion. (see the threats on *EVERY* new weapons system listed above.

 

[Hans Blaster]

It is not our place to support them. It is up to NATO and the United Nations.

For at least the time being the US *IS* in both NATO and the UN and is a leading member of each. We'll see if that holds until Spring Break.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

What does that have to do with us? That is up to Nato and the United Nations to resolve.

We are a part of both of those organizations, are we not?

 

[wing2000]

It takes two to tango. You have to have weapons to have a war. We should destory them.

View attachment 361272

Should we destroy all of our (U.S.) weapons? That way we won't have to "tango" with anyone....