In the Beginning

[Diamond72]

1- Light & Dark
2- Sky & Sea
3- Land
4- Sun & Moon
5- Birds & Fish
6- Animals, Man & Women

Notice how God had to rest after he created women.

 

[Yarddog]

1- Light & Dark
2- Sky & Sea
3- Land
4- Sun & Moon
5- Birds & Fish
6- Animals, Man & Women

Notice how God had to rest after he created women.

Women can be very tiring.

 

[AV1611VET]

1- Light & Dark
2- Sky & Sea
3- Land
4- Sun & Moon
5- Birds & Fish
6- Animals, Man & Women

Where's the earth on this list?

It was the first thing created in the universe with mass.

Notice how God had to rest after he created women.

I take it this is meant in jest.

Else why "women" plural?

 

[Diamond72]

Where's the earth on this list?

Glad you asked because that is a zinger for you. Genesis 2:4 states that God made the Heavens and the Earth in a single day, while Genesis 1 describes the creation process as taking six days. How do we explain that?

"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens." Genesis 2:4

Genesis Chapter 1 in the Bible describes the creation of the world. It contains a series of statements often referred to as the "Ten Utterances" or the "Ten Sayings," which God used to bring different aspects of the universe into existence. Here's a brief summary of these utterances:

1. Light: "Let there be light," and there was light.
2. Sky: "Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water."
3. Land and Vegetation: "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear."
4. Stars, Sun, and Moon: "Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night."
5. Aquatic Life and Birds: "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth."
6. Animals: "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds."
7. Human Beings: "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness."
8. Provision of Food: "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it."
9. Blessing of Creation: "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it."
10. Completion and Rest: The chapter concludes with God resting on the seventh day, sanctifying it as a day of rest.

 

[Diamond72]

I take it this is meant in jest.

yes, glad you got it It had to be a challenge for Adam to be married to Eve and Joseph to be married to Mary. The challenges they faced make our marriage look like a cakewalk in comparison.

 

[AV1611VET]

Glad you asked because that is a zinger for you.

Not at all, Diamond.

Creationism is my forte.

Genesis 2:4 states that God made the Heavens and the Earth in a single day,

In this case, day means a week.

How long do you think the Lord's Day is going to be?

I wonder what they thought in your grandfather's day, huh?

... while Genesis 1 describes the creation process as taking six days. How do we explain that?

By understanding it is a framework narrative -- a story within a story.

Framework narratives are literary techniques used throughout history.

Here's the story in chronological order:

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Genesis 1:1 ¶ In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 ¶ And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 ¶ And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 ¶ And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 ¶ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 ¶ And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 ¶ And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27a So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him;

Genesis 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8 ¶ And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16 ¶ And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
18 ¶ And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
21 ¶ And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 ¶ And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 ¶ And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Genesis 2:1 ¶ Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

 

[Diamond72]

In this case, day means a week.

Yes, you are right, the word day here is בְּי֗וֹם bə-yō-wm, not the word yowm we see in Genesis chapter one.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes, you are right, the word day here is בְּי֗וֹם bə-yō-wm, not the word yowm we see in Genesis chapter one.

What book are you reading?

The word "day" here is "day."

I don't speak (or read) in tongues.

 

[Diamond72]

By understanding it is a framework narrative -- a story within a story.

Framework narratives are literary techniques used throughout history.

If day means day then Adam means Adam. That does not seem to be what you are doing. In Genesis 1:26 we see ’ā·ḏām — 316 Occurrences. In Genesis 2:5 we see wə·’ā·ḏām — 10 Occurrences.

The phrase wə·’ā·ḏām is FAR less frequent and more context-specific.

• Literal vs. Symbolic Interpretation:
  • In Genesis 1:26, "’ā·ḏām" is used to refer to humanity in a general sense, indicating the creation of mankind in the image of God.
  • In Genesis 2:5, "wə·’ā·ḏām" refers to a specific individual, Adam, in a more context-specific manner.
• Framework Narrative:
  • Genesis 1 provides a broad, structured account of creation over six days, focusing on the creation of the world and mankind. This account serves as a framework for understanding the overall act of creation.
  • Genesis 2 zooms in on the detailed story of the creation of Adam and Eve, offering a more intimate perspective. This chapter can be seen as a narrative within the broader framework established in Genesis 1
• So we have mankind in chapter one and a single man in chapter two.

 

[Diamond72]

What book are you reading?

I am reading the Hebrew Bible in the original language. The church - Bible college I was attending is very much a KJV-only church. They consider other translations to be commentaries, not real Bibles."

 

[AV1611VET]

If day means day then Adam means Adam.

"Adam" is a collective name.

And from AI Overview:

Yes, "Adam" can be considered a collective name because in Hebrew, the word "adam" (from which the name derives) refers not only to the first man but also has a collective meaning signifying "mankind" or "humankind" as a whole; essentially representing the human race.

That's like having a single fish in an aquarium and naming him "Fish."

That does not seem to be what you are doing. In Genesis 1:26 we see ’ā·ḏām — 316 Occurrences. In Genesis 2:5 we see wə·’ā·ḏām — 10 Occurrences.

Tell me, Diamond: how many times did God put Adam into the Garden of Eden?

Genesis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

Genesis 1 & 2 comprise what is known as a framework narrative.

 

[AV1611VET]

I am reading the Hebrew Bible in the original language. The church - Bible college I was attending is very much a KJV-only church. They consider other translations to be commentaries, not real Bibles."

And let me guess.

You left your KJVO church/college to ease your cognitive dissonance created by hearing that the rest of Planet Earth adheres to going back to the "original language" for a better understanding of the truth?

Is that correct?

 

[Diamond72]

I wonder what they thought in your grandfather's day, huh?

I have his Bible but he never talked with me about the Bible.

Diamond: how many times did God put Adam into the Garden of Eden?

In the Bible there is ONE Eden. In Science there are MANY Edens.

Research has indicated that a significant portion of contemporary Jewish Cohanim belong to haplogroup J-P58 (J1c3), while others are found in haplogroup J2a (J-M410). These genetic markers are passed down from father to son, maintaining the patrilineal descent that is central to the Cohen lineage1.

Deuteronomy 7:7 "The Lord did not set his love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any of the peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples."

 

[AV1611VET]

I have his Bible but he never talked with me about the Bible.

That question I asked about your grandfather's day went right over your head, didn't it?

In the Bible there is ONE Eden. In Science there are MANY Edens.

Okay.

It's obvious to me you're not interested in discussing this, so let's just call it quits ... okay?

 

[Diamond72]

You left your KJVO church/college

My reason for leaving had to do with their belief about airplanes falling out of the sky. Also, the teachers class I was in had 16 women and one man. A friend of mine was going to take the classes also but the women chased him off early. Although, I was use to that because one of the schools I attended was 7 boys and 160 women.

If I take two more classes I could get certified as a Sunday School Superintendent at any church in the country.

So I have two years in the State college that my son got his computer engineer degree and I have two years in the Bible college. My dad went to the same state college also before he went on to get his medical degree. My brother also attended the same college before he went on to get his Phd.

You ask very unusual questions. What did you study in college?

 

[Diamond72]

That question I asked about your grandfather's day went right over your head, didn't it?

Don't you find that attitude difficult to carry? Sort of like when we have a 16 mile forced march in with full equipment. Remember when everyone carried half of a tent? I ended up being the odd man out so they gave me a second half and I got a tent all to myself. What I remember most though is I really did like those K rations. Even though there were a few that could not even eat them.

 

[AV1611VET]

My reason for leaving had to do with their belief about airplanes falling out of the sky.

Y2K?

You ask very unusual questions.

Have you see my challenge threads?

What did you study in college?

Business Administration

And while in the Navy, I took correspondence courses on Oceanography and Introduction to Space Technology.

And if it means anything, as a teenager, my parents got me the 20-volume set of Time-Life books on Zoology; and I read every book, took notes and even cross-referenced them.

It seemed I couldn't get enough zoology, until my interest switched to astronomy.

After I got saved in December of 1982, I lost all interest in everything mundane and devoted all my time to Bible study.

I couldn't get enough doctrine and theology.

Eventually I felt the LORD calling me to minister to those in the New Age Movement, so I directed my studies in that direction.

 

[AV1611VET]

Remember when everyone carried half of a tent? I ended up being the odd man out so they gave me a second half and I got a tent all to myself. What I remember most though is I really did like those K rations. Even though there were a few that could not even eat them.

Ya -- the Boy Scouts was tough, wasn't it?

-- just kidding.

 

[Diamond72]

Y2K?

They believed that at the time of the rapture the pilot would be rapture out and there would be no one to fly the plane so it would crash and all the people on board would die. I thought that was nonsense. Actually, planes fly and land themselves, you just have to program in all the information. Planes do disappear every now and then though.

 

[AV1611VET]

They believed that at the time of the rapture the pilot would be rapture out and there would be no one to fly the plane so it would crash and all the people on board would die. I thought that was nonsense. Actually, planes fly and land themselves, you just have to program in all the information. Planes do disappear every now and then though.

Here's an "oldie but goodie" that Split Rock made up for dad and me:

Two creationists take a Commercial flight

AV1611VET: How do we know that the flight crew knows how to fly this plane?

Flight Attendant: They are trained experts and have been doing this for many years.

Dad: All because they are so-called experts doesnt mean they can ignore Gods Word.

Flight Attendant: What does Gods Word have to do with flying an airplane?

AV1611VET: I use my Boolean Standards to show that flying is against The Inerrant Word of God and The Documentation.

Flight Attendant: Are you talking about The Bible? Where does The Bible say that?

AV1611VET: Thinking themselves to be wise they became fools.

Flight Attendant: What does that have to do with flying?

AV1611VET: Homo sapiens means Wise Man, doesnt it? Since the flight crew are Wise Men they are really fools and God will show them they are fools by crashing the plane.

Flight Attendant: What???

Dad: How do these Ivory Tower so-called experts know they can fly this plane between here and the destination? What if the atmosphere between here and the destination is in a different state?

Flight Attendant: Different State?? What do you mean??

Dad: A different state. Like it was before The Split.

Flight Attendant: What Split?

Dad: During the time of Peleg. To think differently, is anti-Bible hogwash and a fantasy!

Flight Attendant: What are you talking about?

Dad: You cannot prove that the space-time state between here and there is not different can you?

Flight Attendant: No, but we have never had any problem flying this route before..

Dad: Ha! You just ASSUME there is no difference now, because you assume the past is the key to the present. That is an Anti-God Lie, and thinking only within the box.. I refuse to accept it!!!

Flight Attendant Please, both of you take your seats!

AV1611VET: You just cant wait to ridicule me, even though I accept 95% of your science!

Dad: I just discovered that human flight is impossible! Amazing!!

Flight Attendant: Please, take your seats so we can take off! I promise it is safe!

AV1611VET: Oh yeah.. just like Thalidomide was a Wonder Drug before it was Plutoed!

Flight Attendant: Thalidomide?

AV1611VET: Sure, Thaldomide proves that your science changes with the flavor of the week!

Dad: Prove with your so called science that the state between here and there is the same! You cant!!!! Human flight is an anti-Bible lie! Amazing!

Flight Attendant: Get off this plane!!!