Peter as the first Pope or bishop of Rome

[soldier of light]

Neither @jas3 nor myself are Catholic. We are certainly not defending the Papacy.

You sure seem to be saying Peter was head apostle.

 

[jas3]

I doubt I would agree with your interpretation of that scripture

Then I guess you'll have to figure out on your own where Timothy's and Titus's authority came from, if you don't believe Paul when he says he gave Timothy and Titus their spiritual authority.

 

[prodromos]

You sure seem to be saying Peter was head apostle.

How on earth do you get that idea from my post below?

All of the Apostles had Christ's full authority to bind and loose, and they passed on that authority to those they established as leaders in the Churches they planted, and those leaders passed on that authority to their successors..

 

[soldier of light]

Then I guess you'll have to figure out on your own where Timothy's and Titus's authority came from, if you don't believe Paul when he says he gave Timothy and Titus their spiritual authority.

The church's today are not run by men like Paul, Timothy or Titus.

 

[soldier of light]

How on earth do you get that idea from my post below?

I misunderstood I guess

 

[prodromos]

I misunderstood I guess

That's OK. We Orthodox Christians often get confused with Catholics

 

[soldier of light]

That's OK. We Orthodox Christians often get confused with Catholics

No offense but i disagree with orthodox too.

 

[jas3]

The church's today are not run by men like Paul, Timothy or Titus.

That's another topic we can get to (although it may be off topic for this thread), but do you admit then that there was a succession of authority from the Apostles?

 

[prodromos]

No offense but i disagree with orthodox too.

None taken, but if you follow the Church throughout history, that's what you are going to find. You won't find anything resembling modern Protestant Churches until well into the 2nd millennium.

 

[soldier of light]

That's another topic we can get to (although it may be off topic for this thread), but do you admit then that there was a succession of authority from the Apostles?

No I don't agree at all. I don't believe that the gift of apostle authority has been handed down to present day.

 

[soldier of light]

None taken, but if you follow the Church throughout history, that's what you are going to find. You won't find anything resembling modern Protestant Churches until well into the 2nd millennium.

History is irrelevant. I follow the spirit

 

[soldier of light]

I love you guys I just dont agree

 

[prodromos]

History is irrelevant. I follow the spirit

The Holy Spirit did not abandon the Church until the Reformation. Miracles were abundant throughout the history of the Church so it seems God was pleased to pour out His Grace on those you disagree with.

 

[soldier of light]

The Holy Spirit did not abandon the Church until the Reformation. Miracles were abundant throughout the history of the Church so it seems God was pleased to pour out His Grace on those you disagree with.

You mean like statues crying? The only miracle I want is people to get help they need.

 

[prodromos]

You mean like statues crying? The only miracle I want is people to get help they need.

There you go again, confusing us with Catholics. No I mean people with terminal cancer suddenly being completely free of cancer. I mean a woman who was about to undergo a hysterectomy falling pregnant and carrying her child to term when the placenta was attached to the only healthy tissue in her uterus which was the size of a lentil. I mean a child dying of cancer only to come back to life moments later completely healed. I mean a man whose fingers were crushed during construction of a monastery having his fingers completely heal shortly after the x-ray that revealed the crushed bones.

 

[soldier of light]

There you go again, confusing us with Catholics. No I mean people with terminal cancer suddenly being completely free of cancer. I mean a woman who was about to undergo a hysterectomy falling pregnant and carrying her child to term when the placenta was attached to the only healthy tissue in her uterus which was the size of a lentil. I mean a child dying of cancer only to come back to life moments later completely healed. I mean a man whose fingers were crushed during construction of a monastery having his fingers completely heal shortly after the x-ray that revealed the crushed bones.

Everyone claims that

 

[timothyu]

but do you admit then that there was a succession of authority from the Apostles?

Forwarding of the Gospel of the Kingdom stopped in pretty short order and a different gospel was preached... so no.

You won't find anything resembling modern Protestant Churches until well into the 2nd millennium.

And you won't find anything resembling Jesus's church built on truth from the Father or on the Kingdom much after the first century except in scripture which existed before the NT but later got included

 

[prodromos]

Everyone claims that

Not in my experience.

 

[RileyG]

But I thought the pope was the leader of the church? I thought the catholic church is the original church.

Yes.

 

[DamianWarS]

It’s the title for the Bishop of Rome, interesting enough the Coptic Church also calls their leader Pope.

Was Peter the Bishop of Rome? I understand Catholic history has a clear answer to this, but if we approach this critically, these titles and offices make more sense when given posthumously.

The word bishop itself is a common Greek work that means administrator. Peter was called an apostle (messenger) of Christ. He wasn't called a bishop (administrator) of Rome but h ewas indeed an early church Father/patriarch. Bishop/Pope are appointed titles, they are highly developed and specialized positions well past what can be supported in Peter's lifetime (again the position of bishop was far more common) Father/Patriarch is implicit of any person involved in early leadership. It's also not an appointed title and it is regarded after an established movement and often after death.