Military Veteran, US Citizens Detained in ICE raid in Newark, NJ - Mayor alleges Fourth Amendment Violation

[perplexed]

Speaking purely Hypothetically
I do not have a problem with a government making sane attempts to catch and deport illegal immigrants.

 

[Pommer]

IF we went by "sounds foriegn" we would all have to depart.
I spent hours trying to find McEvers Avenue down South in Georgia. I called the delivery point and that is what the guy on the phone said.
I finally called him back after inquiring of people walking down the street, in gas station and checking various maps and other locators. asked him to spell McEvers
He politely replied
M-e-d-g-e-r E-v-e-r-s

My podiastrist claims he moved out of the South after his son pronounced Red as a two syllable word.
And don't get me started on Boston "Dun Tun" spell that "down town"
But then I overheared a crew at a warehouse talking about my co-driver, stating the driver who was San Fransisco born and raised, sounded like someone out of Deliverance.

Pittsburgh has it’s own sub-dialect, downtown is “dahntahn”, Carnegie is Car-NAY-ghee

 

[Pommer]

Speaking purely Hypothetically
I do not have a problem with a government making sane attempts to catch and deport illegal immigrants.

Soon the operation will turn to the public, “don’t harbor the ‘invaders’! Report suspicious people what don’t talk right”!, and the like….by fall ‘25.

 

[perplexed]

Pittsburgh has it’s own sub-dialect, downtown is “dahntahn”, Carnegie is Car-NAY-ghee

They seem a bit "different" to me
I literally checked if it was a City in the far South of Canada

 

[Pommer]

They seem a bit "different" to me
I literally checked if it was a City in the far South of Canada

I am not a secessionist, but if it happens around me, I wouldn’t leave.

 

[QvQ]

Soon the operation will turn to the public, “don’t harbor the ‘invaders’! Report suspicious people what don’t talk right”!, and the like….by fall ‘25.

No one will have to report anyone.
There are two ways ICE can act.
Workplace raids with warrants issued for tax fraud, a Federal offense.
Welfare fraud, also a Federal crime
Both work and welfare require #SS.
Who can live without work or welfare?
There has been a work around with NGO charities but watch to see that use of Federal $$ cut off
And rightly so, as Federal benefits, no matter the source, are forbidden to Foriegn Nationals.
Cut off the money, a very large number of undocumented will self deport.
Document and welfare fraud, income tax evasion are very easy to catch with all our names and all our numbers being on computers.

 

[Pommer]

No one will have to report anyone.
There are two ways ICE can act.
Workplace raids with warrants issued for tax fraud, a Federal offense.
Welfare fraud, also a Federal crime
Both work and welfare require #SS.
Who can live without work or welfare?
There has been a work around with NGO charities but watch to see that use of Federal $$ cut off
And rightly so, as Federal benefits, no matter the source, are forbidden to Foriegn Nationals.
Cut off the money, a very large number of undocumented will self deport.
Document and welfare fraud, income tax evasion are very easy to catch with all our names and all our numbers being on computers.

In ten years we’ll be begging people to come and work our jobs, but it starts here, yes.

 

[QvQ]

In ten years we’ll be begging people to come and work our jobs, but it starts here, yes.

There were 200 million in the US when JFK was President. The US was a powerhouse of manufacturing, medicine, engineering.
Now there are 340 million. The majority of our jobs are health care, government and other assorted service jobs. The economy is not production but taking in each others wash.
We have homeless camps, larger than during the Great Depression
So why should the US beg for more people?

 

[Pommer]

There were 200 million in the US when JFK was President. The US was a powerhouse of manufacturing, medicine, engineering.
Now there are 340 million. The majority of our jobs are health care, government and other assorted service jobs. The economy is not production but taking in each others wash.
We have homeless camps, larger than during the Great Depression
So why should the US beg for more people?

Unemployment has hovered @ 4% for six years (barring the pandemic data), that’s as near to full employment as one can get, (WITH million 12 undocumented).
Pushing people out will affect productivity, the economy will shrink and we’ll fall into a recession.

 

[QvQ]

Pushing people out will affect productivity, the economy will shrink and we’ll fall into a recession.

Perhaps but less people means less goods and services required so no recession.
When the US had 200 million people there were enough workers to produce the highest standard of living ever.
And it was less wear and tear on the environment and required fewer natural resouces

 

[Bradskii]

Perhaps but less people means less goods and services required so no recession.

So some guy who was picking 100 kilos of tomatoes a day is sent packing and his family isn't going to buy a kilo of them each week. Seems like you're about 600 kilos short.

The person cleaning your office is deported and you're going to chip in and do it yourself?

The two guys putting up dry wall aren't there any more. So the electrician and the painter has to stop work and the project is delayed.

Have you thought this through?

 

[QvQ]

So some guy who was picking 100 kilos of tomatoes a day is sent packing and his family isn't going to buy a kilo of them each week. Seems like you're about 600 kilos short.

Almost all tomatoes harvested in the US are mechanically harvested.

The person cleaning your office is deported and you're going to chip in and do it yourself?

There are businesses that specilize in office cleaning, primarily housewives as the hours allow for a spouse with a day job to take care of children while house wife makes some $$ in the evenings. Very flexible hours.
And I do remind you that Cleaning Jobs are subject to the same laws as other employment. A nanny, a gardener or an office cleaner must have a #SS and report their wages. Also must have a business tax number in many cases. There are other laws as those are independent contractors who Biden shut down. Must be employees to do any work now.
Yes, I would clean it myself. Been there, done that!

The two guys putting up dry wall aren't there any more. So the electrician and the painter has to stop work and the project is delayed.

Then I will put the drywall myself, with a little help from my friends.
Also I don't know what is causing it but American is generally shabby compared to earlier times. The houses are unpainted, the yards are not kept up. It may be people are too busy with computers, phones and gadgets but partly, mostly I suspect people can't afford yard work and house paint.
Wages have stagnated
That is what a surplus of labor causes, Low Wages
And an increase in Welfare
Homelessness
And Rising Costs due to increased demand for finite products and resources.
Consider housing. If we had 200 million, we have enough houses
We don't have enough for 340 million, thus real estate, houses and rentals are expensive and in short supply. Many are homeless. So we take more of our land, natural resources and build more houses? The private sector can't afford to do that anymore. So now we have public housing projects going up everywhere.
Too many people is a problem, not a solution.

Yes, I do believe I have thought about this very carefully for a very long time
According to the polls, so have many other Americans and they have reached the same conclusions

 

[Bradskii]

Almost all tomatoes harvested in the US are mechanically harvested.

Don't be trite. The point was clearly made.

Yes, I do believe I have thought about this very carefully for a very long time.

It's not apparent.

According to the polls, so have many other Americans and they have reached the same conclusions

Most people wouldn't have the first idea what percentage of GDP is produced by the people you want to deport. Hardly anyone, including Trump, has any idea as to how you're going seek out, detain, place in detainment and deport a minimum of 12,000,000 people, including women and children. Nobody has the slightest idea as to how to set up a secure facility in Guantanamo for 30,000 bad dudes.

The list of things that people don't know just goes on and on. They voted for Trump simply because he promised simplistic solutions to complex problems. Immigration, prices, tariffs...and now bizarrely the Middle East. He has no real idea how to fix any of them.

 

[wing2000]

If businesses were required to e verify we'd see a lot fewer issues. The fact that a business hires illegals, gets raided and some Americans get picked up in the sweep is ON the business for either deliberately hiring illegals or failing to make sure they were legitimately employable.

....and yet I have yet to see Trump go after businesses owners who employ illegal immigrants. If employment opportunities dried up, many would self-deport. Alas, parading illegl immigrants in chains into military aircraft makes for better MAGA images...

 

[QvQ]

and now bizarrely the Middle East. He has no real idea how to fix any of them.

Trump does have a brilliant idea.
Trump is a realtor.
If everyone would stop viewing Gaza as a poor pitiful picked-on slum no one wants to live in
And started looking at it as Prime Real Estate.
Exactly why can't Gaza be the Riviera with investment from the rich Arabs?

And as a realtor, Trump knows America is a tough country and it requires a highly skilled work force to maintain this technology. Without that fragile technological envelope in which Americans exist, the natural enviroment is hostile, extremely hostile to human life. Not a tropical paradise.
When the technological envelope collapses, either from overload or lack of maintainence, when the quality of life is so bad, people will move out.

It doesn't need a plan. It does need enforcement of laws.
But anything is better than dumping 12 million people with nothing except their needs on the American people
And lecturing the Americans about caring for the "needy."
Go lecture the needy about abusive demands on their neighbors

Btw, many countries have very strict and enforced immigration laws, Australia being one of those nations.
American has a right to enforce the borders. Biden didn't and now we are dealing with the mess.

 

[Bradskii]

Trump does have a brilliant idea.
Trump is a realtor.

Trump had a galactically stupid idea. Which, if you keep watching the news, will gradually be walked back. The real problem is that a lot of people who also think it's a good idea.

That is a serious concern.

 

[QvQ]

Trump had a galactically stupid idea. Which, if you keep watching the news, will gradually be walked back. The real problem is that a lot of people who also think it's a good idea.

That is a serious concern.

I knew you were going to say that!
Trump has some brilliant ideas actually
Watch all the middle eastern potentates start lining up for a piece of the pie
Las Vegas of the Middle East
At least it gives them something to think about beside wipinig out Israel
Wiping out Israel would be definitely bad for the tourist business, so they might decide to protect their investment by keeping the peace
And it would create jobs for the Gazans rebuilding their slice of real estate.

 

[Bradskii]

I knew you were going to say that!

Maybe because you know it will happen. The administration will walk it back (it's already started) and Trump will again look foolish. As will anyone else who supports his idiotic proposal.

 

[QvQ]

Maybe because you know it will happen. The administration will walk it back (it's already started) and Trump will again look foolish. As will anyone else who supports his idiotic proposal.

There is always a Howl of outrage anytime Trump says anything.
However, Trump proposes and the Howlers supposes.
I doubt Trump is serious about Greenland but he did spotlight the strategic importance.
I believe he is serious about the Panama Canal but that is because the Chinese have been taking control
That is a serious threat to America.

Too bad you don't understand the conditions on the ground.
And how seriously people are watching that budget battle in Congress.
Running about, leading protest about basically nothing, while America is on the edge of default is not gaining the democratic party any points with the voters.
Watch and see about February 26, the Congress will approve some stop gap budget which none of them will have read.
This government is non-functional and it is all on Congress
As the man said, "It is the economy, stupid."

 

[Bradskii]

There is always a Howl of outrage anytime Trump says anything.

Only when he says something monstrously stupid. You see people getting a outraged quite a lot. Because he says a lot of monstrously stupid things (see highlighted comment below).

I doubt Trump is serious about Greenland...

You mean he is wrong.

I believe he is serious about the Panama Canal but that is because the Chinese have been taking control

No, there is a Hong Kong company that has interests in two ports. They are privately owned companies, not state run. The interests were put out to tender and the US showed no interest. They in no way control the canal. He lied to you. From here: Does China 'operate' Panama Canal, as Trump says?

'On Christmas Day, Trump posted on social media that the "wonderful soldiers of China" were "lovingly, but illegally, operating the Panama Canal" - a claim which was swiftly denied by officials in Panama City and Beijing.

At the time, Panamanian President José Raúl Mulino described the claim as "nonsense", stressing that there was "absolutely no Chinese interference" in the canal.

Trump has also threatened to take the canal back by force, citing "exorbitant" fees being allegedly charged for US vessels to pass through it - another claim rejected by Panamanian authorities.

Following Trump's inauguration address, President Mulino again stressed that there was "no presence of any nation in the world that interferes with our administration" of the Panama Canal.'

So...Trump says he might invade a soverign country to illegally take control of the canal. You up for that? Let me know. You said he was right, so I'm going to assume that you agree with sending troops in.