Did God forget Luke 14:28-32?

[Jeff Saunders]

I understood. I might be wrong, but I think others here have too. Why don't you?

Scripture is God breathed as we know , but it’s not always clear to us what God was trying to say.for example John 4:42 “Jesus is the Christ, the savior of the world “ to me I read this verse as written that Jesus is the savior of the world. Most of modern western churches read this verse as Jesus is the potential savior, they don’t believe Jesus can overcome man’s will , which they think is stronger than God will or they make up two wills of God so as not to read 1Tim 2:3-6 as written. Or another example we read that Luke 17:26 Just as in the days of Noah so it will be before the son of man returns. God did not define what he meant by days of Noah , we are all trying to figure it out and that is why there are so many different views on what does scripture mean. Many times the original Greek words have multiple meanings and God doesn’t always tell us what one we are to use , so we look at scripture as a whole and try to see if it lines up with the character and nature of God as best we understand it. We all read scripture through a lens , whether we know it or not. I read scripture through the lens says It’s Gods will that none parish 1Tim 2:3-6 and that is accomplished by John 4:42 Jesus is the Christ, the savior of the world. This I believe to be the telos of God so as I read scripture it must fit that telos. Most of Western Christianity sees God as an angry God because his creation disobeyed him and now all must be tortured for ever but thankfully Jesus gets between us and God and takes God wrath so we don’t have to but it’s up to us to get across that line, ( say the prayer or be picked by God depending on what lens you read through) then God can save you but most won’t make it because narrow is the way to life and few find it. I don’t buy that anymore, I believe that 1Cor 15:28 says God will be all in all , that is the end of the story. That is why I asked you what you thought about those scriptures. I learned this from Ted Decker that scripture is like a finger if it points you to God you understand it if it points to anything other than God and who he is and what he has and will do then you do not have the correct meaning.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

So you are saying that all the early church fathers who believe this, reading it as it was originally written in Greek of the day, were blinded to what scripture really said and you are going to correct them? I think they thought clearer than we do .

What specifics from early church fathers are you appealing to?

If it's freewill, that can be scripturally Proven false as already noted and cited

No person has ever free willingly decided to NOT have evil present within them by the hard and ugly facts Jesus presented. Mark 7:21-23 as an easy example

In fact we as Christians are so deceived bt that fact of evil we can't even speak truthfully about the fact of it and instead we quite utterly and vainly try to justify the entirety of ourselves

and that in short ain't going to happen

God will in fact prove every last one of us as capital G U I L T Y at our ends, and then

We will obtain Divine Mercy in Christ, unearnable and unmerited on any persons count

For devils, for their evil, there will be ZERO mercy. Not one little spittle

Get both parties on the theological table and there is clear sailing through these topics

But you are wasting your breath preaching salvation to devils that you can't even see

Demonic salvation is a literal joke

 

[Der Alte]

I think you are reading more into this than is there . Having your foot on someone’s neck is not the same as a footstool. To have your foot on someone’s neck is a sign of dominance and conquering control, yet a footstool is a piece of furniture that gives your feet a comfortable place to rest upon. I do not see how you can equate the two unless this fits your preconceived ideas about God and what he will do.

Then please enlighten me. What did all the scriptures I quoted mean which said "I make your enemies your footstool? Psa 110:1, Mat 22:44, Mar 12:36, Luk 20:43, Heb 1:13, Heb 10:13. Will those enemies just suddenly become only a comfortable place for the Lord to rest his feet on?

 

[Free2bHeretical4Him!]

Is it not arrogance to claim you have attained to what even Paul said he hoped by any means he “might” attain to?

Philippians 3:11-12 KJV
If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. [12] Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Scratching my head here brother … to what have I claimed to attain to, that Paul could only have hoped to attain? Not sure if I’m asking the right question I’m so confused about what you are saying/implying? Are you referring to something Jeff said/implied? If so, why not address the matter with him? I’m lost here man … lol

Do you think “a dirt nap from glory” are the words of the Spirit or a sign of humility? Do you not think before you became a believer that you would consider such a claim sheer arrogance by a believer?

Honestly, along with my domain name and my membership tag line, just an attempt at ”believers humor“ (sorry it offended you) pertaining to a Scriptural truth; that of course being our return to dust. I have two daughters of China, two beautiful gifts from above whom are both working out their faith and salvation/healng/completion etc … They get to chuckling about together every time they hear me say those words, knowing my heart, and thus appreciating the delivery and understanding the Scriptural truth it represents. That’s all …

If not, perhaps consider the counsel of our brother James.

James 1:24 KJV
For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

The best mirrors always have two mirrored sides my brother. Greater/lessor magnification side for an introspective look

Why the obvious hostility my brother? I agree with many things, not all of course, our brother Jeff believes, pertaining to his world view of mankind, specifically their ultimate and complete redemption.

“In my opinion“ you made a rather arrogant comment when you humbly thought you were speaking on behalf of the community. You know, the “I may be wrong“ but I don’t think so comment?

From my perspective, I took offense at your copy and paste of the original poster’s Scripture, along with person commentary, and of course graciously speaking on behalf of the community at large; to know that you did not represent my view as a member. If it‘s cool with you, unless of course you have need to further reply, let’s extend to each other the courtesy of allowing each other to speak for ourselves.

Do you not think that someone implying God had not thought about something that he himself had thought about was blasphemous or arrogant?

I really am sorry brother, but at this point I’m literally scratching my head …

Are we not commanded to rebuke such?

1 Timothy 5:20 KJV
Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

2 Timothy 4:2 KJV
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

If I might be honest I considered saying something far stronger than the words God gave me by His word but I decided the scripture would be sufficient.

I am sure you know that even the mildest rebuke is disdained by the arrogant as condescending my friend but I must by all means seek to please God in obedience to his word.

I am sorry that the scriptures I posted were an offence to you.

No offense taken to the “Scriptures” you posted by any means my friend …

blessings

 

[Johan2222]

Scratching my head here brother … to what have I claimed to attain to, that Paul could only have hoped to attain? Not sure if I’m asking the right question I’m so confused about what you are saying/implying? Are you referring to something Jeff said/implied? If so, why not address the matter with him? I’m lost here man … lol

Honestly, along with my domain name and my membership tag line, just an attempt at ”believers humor“ (sorry it offended you) pertaining to a Scriptural truth; that of course being our return to dust. I have two daughters of China, two beautiful gifts from above whom are both working out their faith and salvation/healng/completion etc … They get to chuckling about together every time they hear me say those words, knowing my heart, and thus appreciating the delivery and understanding the Scriptural truth it represents. That’s all …


The best mirrors always have two mirrored sides my brother. Greater/lessor magnification side for an introspective look

Why the obvious hostility my brother? I agree with many things, not all of course, our brother Jeff believes, pertaining to his world view of mankind, specifically their ultimate and complete redemption.

“In my opinion“ you made a rather arrogant comment when you humbly thought you were speaking on behalf of the community. You know, the “I may be wrong“ but I don’t think so comment?

From my perspective, I took offense at your copy and paste of the original poster’s Scripture, along with person commentary, and of course graciously speaking on behalf of the community at large; to know that you did not represent my view as a member. If it‘s cool with you, unless of course you have need to further reply, let’s extend to each other the courtesy of allowing each other to speak for ourselves.


I really am sorry brother, but at this point I’m literally scratching my head …

No offense taken to the “Scriptures” you posted by any means my friend …

blessings

In my opinion“ you made a rather arrogant comment when you humbly thought you were speaking on behalf of the community. You know, the “I may be wrong“ but I don’t think so comment?

That was not my comment. Perhaps you should address the poster who made it.

 

[Free2bHeretical4Him!]

In my opinion“ you made a rather arrogant comment when you humbly thought you were speaking on behalf of the community. You know, the “I may be wrong“ but I don’t think so comment?

That was not my comment. Perhaps you should address the poster who made it.

You are correct my friend. Genuine and sincere apology rendered for my error. Surfing too many waves at once I guess.

 

[Johan2222]

Scratching my head here brother … to what have I claimed to attain to, that Paul could only have hoped to attain? Not sure if I’m asking the right question I’m so confused about what you are saying/implying? Are you referring to something Jeff said/implied? If so, why not address the matter with him? I’m lost here man … lol

Honestly, along with my domain name and my membership tag line, just an attempt at ”believers humor“ (sorry it offended you) pertaining to a Scriptural truth; that of course being our return to dust. I have two daughters of China, two beautiful gifts from above whom are both working out their faith and salvation/healng/completion etc … They get to chuckling about together every time they hear me say those words, knowing my heart, and thus appreciating the delivery and understanding the Scriptural truth it represents. That’s all …


The best mirrors always have two mirrored sides my brother. Greater/lessor magnification side for an introspective look

Why the obvious hostility my brother? I agree with many things, not all of course, our brother Jeff believes, pertaining to his world view of mankind, specifically their ultimate and complete redemption.

“In my opinion“ you made a rather arrogant comment when you humbly thought you were speaking on behalf of the community. You know, the “I may be wrong“ but I don’t think so comment?

From my perspective, I took offense at your copy and paste of the original poster’s Scripture, along with person commentary, and of course graciously speaking on behalf of the community at large; to know that you did not represent my view as a member. If it‘s cool with you, unless of course you have need to further reply, let’s extend to each other the courtesy of allowing each other to speak for ourselves.


I really am sorry brother, but at this point I’m literally scratching my head …

No offense taken to the “Scriptures” you posted by any means my friend …

blessings

In my opinion“ you made a rather arrogant comment when you humbly thought you were speaking on behalf of the community. You know, the “I may be wrong“ but I don’t think so comment?

I have to admit, I am rather new to this forum and find it a little confusing who has written what.

The comment you quoted above, however was not mine, and I didn’t copy and paste it either.

As far as “believers humour” is concerned, Christ never attempted to be humorous or Paul or John or Peter so “Believers humour” has no grounding in sound doctrine. “Believers humour” is a term that you have made up yourself to try and justify your boasts. Human humour, certainly, which is from the flesh? No question, and the fact that you are offended that I questioned it and said that it would stumble unbelievers is noted.

It is not I who am offended my friend it is you that I have told you the truth, that such comments do nothing to edify, nor does vain humour especially humour boasting of having attained what you have not have any part at all in the church. It is nothing more than vanity and not only utterly without salt but a stumbling block to those who are without.

Just because your daughters chuckle at vanity does not mean it is of any value in the church. If they were working out their salvation in the way that Christ advocated they also would call your boasts into question and tell you that they are a stumbling block to unbelievers for that is the truth. Just because I have told you the truth as I have been commanded, do not assume that I am offended. On the contrary, I rejoice exceedingly if you reject my council but I would rejoice more if you accepted the truth without contentiousness.

Colossians 4:5-6 KJV
Walk in wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time. [6] Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

Such things could only be defended in offence, for the spirit would be ashamed of them.

Finally do not confuse “obvious hostility” with the call of the spirit to rebuke sin.

It is your flesh that has deceived you into believing I am hostile, but if you were in the spirit you would recognise my obedience and rejoice in it.

No man in the spirit would make light of dirt naps or claim imminent glory openly even before unbelievers.

That you cannot see that should be of great concern to you and that you can justify such behaviour by saying your daughters laugh at it should give you great concern for them also.

 

[Aaron112]

Are we not commanded to rebuke such?

It is against forum rules (that are enforced) to do so on this forum.

 

[Johan2222]

Ah, So the rules are to disobey God on this Christian forum. How interesting.

 

[johansen]

Ah, So the rules are to disobey God on this Christian forum. How interesting.

when you believe God created evil..

you end up with cognative dissonance.

God did not create darkness. he created light, which iluminates the darkness.

 

[Johan2222]

when you believe God created evil..

you end up with cognative dissonance.

God did not create darkness. he created light, which iluminates the darkness.

When you lean unto your own understanding the light in you is darkness.

Isaiah 45:7 KJV
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Then please enlighten me. What did all the scriptures I quoted mean which said "I make your enemies your footstool? Psa 110:1, Mat 22:44, Mar 12:36, Luk 20:43, Heb 1:13, Heb 10:13. Will those enemies just suddenly become only a comfortable place for the Lord to rest his feet on?

You keep thinking of the seen , but we are to place our trust in what is not seen . For now we don’t see all following Jesus but in the ages to come it will happen, just as God said it would 2Peter 3:9 “ The Lord is not slack concerning his promises as some count slackness ( Is this you?) but is long suffering towards us, not willing that any should parish, but that ALL should come to repentance “ For the life of me I don’t understand why that concept is so hard for people to understand. As far as the footstool thing , what is a footstool? Is it a place of eternal punishment or a lower place that his enemies will be , like a footstool. The throne is the place of honor, the footstool is a place on which God can rest his feet on lower than a throne but a place of torture? It’s similar to when Paul talked about God being the potter and out of one lump of clay( humanity) he makes some for Nobel purposes ( those who follow while in the mortal body) and some for common use ( those who did not follow Jesus while in the mortal body) they will be like the footstool, Jesus followers will be like the throne.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

In my opinion“ you made a rather arrogant comment when you humbly thought you were speaking on behalf of the community. You know, the “I may be wrong“ but I don’t think so comment?

I have to admit, I am rather new to this forum and find it a little confusing who has written what.

The comment you quoted above, however was not mine, and I didn’t copy and paste it either.

As far as “believers humour” is concerned, Christ never attempted to be humorous or Paul or John or Peter so “Believers humour” has no grounding in sound doctrine. “Believers humour” is a term that you have made up yourself to try and justify your boasts. Human humour, certainly, which is from the flesh? No question, and the fact that you are offended that I questioned it and said that it would stumble unbelievers is noted.

It is not I who am offended my friend it is you that I have told you the truth, that such comments do nothing to edify, nor does vain humour especially humour boasting of having attained what you have not have any part at all in the church. It is nothing more than vanity and not only utterly without salt but a stumbling block to those who are without.

Just because your daughters chuckle at vanity does not mean it is of any value in the church. If they were working out their salvation in the way that Christ advocated they also would call your boasts into question and tell you that they are a stumbling block to unbelievers for that is the truth. Just because I have told you the truth as I have been commanded, do not assume that I am offended. On the contrary, I rejoice exceedingly if you reject my council but I would rejoice more if you accepted the truth without contentiousness.

Colossians 4:5-6 KJV
Walk in wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time. [6] Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

Such things could only be defended in offence, for the spirit would be ashamed of them.

Finally do not confuse “obvious hostility” with the call of the spirit to rebuke sin.

It is your flesh that has deceived you into believing I am hostile, but if you were in the spirit you would recognise my obedience and rejoice in it.

No man in the spirit would make light of dirt naps or claim imminent glory openly even before unbelievers.

That you cannot see that should be of great concern to you and that you can justify such behaviour by saying your daughters laugh at it should give you great concern for them also.

So you don’t believe that God uses humor? What about when Paul was confronting the Jews who were saying that Christians should be circumcised, and he said he wishes they would just cut the whole thing off. I find his humor funny. God is the inventor of humor so are we not also to enjoy humor?

 

[Johan2222]

So you don’t believe that God uses humor? What about when Paul was confronting the Jews who were saying that Christians should be circumcised, and he said he wishes they would just cut the whole thing off. I find his humor funny. God is the inventor of humor so are we not also to enjoy humor

So you don’t believe that God uses humor? What about when Paul was confronting the Jews who were saying that Christians should be circumcised, and he said he wishes they would just cut the whole thing off. I find his humor funny. God is the inventor of humor so are we not also to enjoy humor?

To go beyond circumcision has many potential meanings and should I be surprised that you misinterpreted him and found your misinterpretation funny?

God invented sex and alcohol and rich food and many other things and any man who says that he does not find such things fun is a liar. Should I indulge in all of them because God invented them?

Titus 3.10 again my friend.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

To go beyond circumcision has many potential meanings and should I be surprised that you misinterpreted him and found your misinterpretation funny?

God invented sex and alcohol and rich food and many other things and any man who says that he does not find such things fun is a liar. Should I indulge in all of them because God invented them?

Titus 3.10 again my friend.

You really need to read the passage in Greek because if you only read the English you miss the sarcasm and Paul had some very sarcastic things to say.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

To go beyond circumcision has many potential meanings and should I be surprised that you misinterpreted him and found your misinterpretation funny?

God invented sex and alcohol and rich food and many other things and any man who says that he does not find such things fun is a liar. Should I indulge in all of them because God invented them?

Titus 3.10 again my friend.

So you think I am being divisive? How ? We have different opinions, you have yours I have mine. That’s not divisive.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

What specifics from early church fathers are you appealing to?

If it's freewill, that can be scripturally Proven false as already noted and cited

No person has ever free willingly decided to NOT have evil present within them by the hard and ugly facts Jesus presented. Mark 7:21-23 as an easy example

In fact we as Christians are so deceived bt that fact of evil we can't even speak truthfully about the fact of it and instead we quite utterly and vainly try to justify the entirety of ourselves

and that in short ain't going to happen

God will in fact prove every last one of us as capital G U I L T Y at our ends, and then

We will obtain Divine Mercy in Christ, unearnable and unmerited on any persons count

For devils, for their evil, there will be ZERO mercy. Not one little spittle

Get both parties on the theological table and there is clear sailing through these topics

But you are wasting your breath preaching salvation to devils that you can't even see

Demonic salvation is a literal joke

How do you define free will? I reject the Calvinist view that God causes everything and man is a merely a puppet. If we have no free will then why does God ask us to choose him? What did Jesus mean by deny yourself and pick up your cross and follow him , if we have no free will to deny ourselves? Our free will is all over scripture we are not robots. But I believe that God is greater than our free will, our will does not threaten God in any way because he knows how to use our free will to get us to the place he wants us to be but it’s not a robotic thing. We were created to worship God and he will orchestrate things so that will happen and we will choose him in the end as all people will.

 

[Johan2222]

You are correct my friend. Genuine and sincere apology rendered for my error. Surfing too many waves at once I guess.

No worries, brother. I am guilty of the same incompetence repeatedly. No offence taken.

 

[Der Alte]

You keep thinking of the seen , but we are to place our trust in what is not seen .

God gave us eyes, ears and minds and nowhere do I see God telling me "Close your eyes, ears and mind and trust anything some anonymous person tells you online." The usual out-of-context proof text.

Heb_11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.​

This vs. does NOT say "place our trust in what is not seen!

For now we don’t see all following Jesus but in the ages to come it will happen, just as God said it would 2Peter 3:9 “ The Lord is not slack concerning his promises as some count slackness ( Is this you?) but is long suffering towards us, not willing that any should parish, but that ALL should come to repentance “ For the life of me I don’t understand why that concept is so hard for people to understand.

Anyone can make the Bible say almost anything by quoting selective scripture out-of-context. The word is "perish" not "Parish" and I'm supposed to close my mind and eyes believe anything you say?

2 Peter 2:4-5​

(4) For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;​

(5) And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; [where is the scripture where they are saved?]​

2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: [NOT salvation]​

As far as the footstool thing , what is a footstool? Is it a place of eternal punishment or a lower place that his enemies will be , like a footstool. The throne is the place of honor, the footstool is a place on which God can rest his feet on lower than a throne but a place of torture? It’s similar to when Paul talked about God being the potter and out of one lump of clay( humanity) he makes some for Nobel purposes ( those who follow while in the mortal body) and some for common use ( those who did not follow Jesus while in the mortal body) they will be like the footstool, Jesus followers will be like the throne.

I gave you the example from the Old Testament you ignored it. Where is the scripture where those footstools are saved? I have addressed the vss. you posted now you address mine.

Jeremiah 13:10​

(10) This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.​

Jeremiah 13:13-14​

(13) Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.​

(14) And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

Matthew 7:21-23​

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​

(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

When Jesus says never He does not mean some day by an by.

EOB Matthew 25:45-46​

(45) Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.​

(46) And these [ones the left] shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.​

The EOB is the Eastern Greek Orthodox NT. Their language has been Greek since Jesus established the church.

 

[Aaron112]

But you are wasting your breath preaching salvation to devils that you can't even see

Too real. Too close to home.