Why don't church-priests, monks, and nuns repent of the vows which they swore?

[prodromos]

JEBofChristTheLord said:
Or to put it a different way. Those devoted to the vows they have sworn and may swear, deliver tens and hundreds and thousands of words in order to glorify themselves, in order that they declare that which He has said, to have no application to them. But that which He has said, has much application.

Given that which Christ the Lord has said, the swearing of a vow, is the very opposite of devotion to service to Christ, no matter what the content of the vow. When one swears a vow, one does an act Christ the Lord has said is of evil. Therefore, the devotion is not to Him, it is to appearances, behaviors of flesh, satisfaction of that act of evil, not obedience to Christ.

You've already had your false understanding corrected but you refuse to listen.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

There have been many claims against that which Christ the Lord has said, trying to justify sinful men and women against holy God. Holy God says that all sworn vows are of evil. Sinful men and women say otherwise.

 

[prodromos]

Holy God says that all sworn vows are of evil.

God says no such thing. That is your deeply flawed interpretation which is driven by your hatred for ancient Church tradition.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

33 Again, you heard that it was said to the ancients: You will not swear falsely, but you will pay to the LORD your oaths; 34 but I say to you not to swear at all; neither by Heaven, because it is the throne of God, 35 nor by the earth, because it is His footstool, nor by Jerusalem, because it is [the] city of [the] great King, 36 nor may you swear by your head, because you are not able to make one hair white or black; 37 but let your word be, Yes, Yes, No, No, and that which is more than these is of the evil [one].
Matthew 5:33-37

The above words are holy. God has said them. Some take up their own words, and try to wipe away the above. They claim it is "interpretation" to wipe them away; but tellingly, such people know no way, or care of no way, that these words of His are true. But see within:

God has told us to not swear at all.

God has told us to let our word be yes, yes, and no, no, and that anything more than these, is of the evil one.

 

[prodromos]

33 Again, you heard that it was said to the ancients: You will not swear falsely, but you will pay to the LORD your oaths; 34 but I say to you not to swear at all; neither by Heaven, because it is the throne of God, 35 nor by the earth, because it is His footstool, nor by Jerusalem, because it is [the] city of [the] great King, 36 nor may you swear by your head, because you are not able to make one hair white or black; 37 but let your word be, Yes, Yes, No, No, and that which is more than these is of the evil [one].
Matthew 5:33-37

Christ gives the specific context He is talking about which is all about people making promises to other people. It has nothing to do with making vows to God, otherwise Christ would be contradicting the instructions given to the Hebrews in the Old Testament through Moses. You can't see that because your faith is not informed by the Scriptures, it is informed by you being anti whatever you perceive as being Catholic.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

33 Again, you heard that it was said to the ancients: You will not swear falsely, but you will pay to the LORD your oaths; 34 but I say to you not to swear at all; neither by Heaven, because it is the throne of God, 35 nor by the earth, because it is His footstool, nor by Jerusalem, because it is [the] city of [the] great King, 36 nor may you swear by your head, because you are not able to make one hair white or black; 37 but let your word be, Yes, Yes, No, No, and that which is more than these is of the evil [one].
Matthew 5:33-37

Christ gives the specific context He is talking about which is all about people making promises to other people. It has nothing to do with making vows to God, otherwise Christ would be contradicting the instructions given to the Hebrews in the Old Testament through Moses. You can't see that because your faith is not informed by the Scriptures, it is informed by you being anti whatever you perceive as being Catholic.

Interesting it is, that there is claim that instructions given by Christ the Lord, are limited in their application, by context of the instructions given through Moses to the Hebrews. What other claims of limitation shall we consider in this very way? There are quite a large number of them. Eye for eye and tooth for tooth. Food. Purification. We all know very well, if we are honest, that no one is going to start even trying to be obedient to that context, that no one has for millennia.

And equally interesting it is, that Christ the Lord specifically states, that the ancients should not be followed in their regard for sworn vows!

 

[prodromos]

And equally interesting it is, that Christ the Lord specifically states, that the ancients should not be followed in their regard for sworn vows!

No, Christ is speaking in response to, "you have heard it said...", He is not referring at all to what is written in the Old Testament.

Numbers 30.

Moses said to the heads of the tribes of the people of Israel, “This is what the Lord has commanded. When a man vows a vow to the Lord, or swears an oath to bind himself by a pledge, he shall not break his word; he shall do according to all that proceeds out of his mouth.​

I recommend you read all of Numbers 30 and decide whether or not you believe God is contradicting Himself or if perhaps (shock, horror) you are the one who has got it wrong. Then perhaps you might be humble enough to realise that maybe you are wrong about other things you've been so dogmatic about recently.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

1 And Moses speaks to the heads of the tribes of the sons of Israel, saying, “This [is] the thing which YHWH has commanded: 2 When a man vows a vow to YHWH, or has sworn an oath to bind a bond on his soul, he does not defile his word; he does according to all that is going out from his mouth.
Numbers 30:1-2

33 Again, you heard that it was said to the ancients: You will not swear falsely, but you will pay to the LORD your oaths; 34 but I say to you not to swear at all; neither by Heaven, because it is the throne of God, 35 nor by the earth, because it is His footstool, nor by Jerusalem, because it is [the] city of [the] great King, 36 nor may you swear by your head, because you are not able to make one hair white or black; 37 but let your word be, Yes, Yes, No, No, and that which is more than these is of the evil [one].
Matthew 5:33-37

This is very much like purifications, and food, and works of justice by stonings, and many other commandments . God commanded them to the descendants of the man first named Jacob, then renamed Israel. God has not so commanded us. He has commanded us very differently.

 

[prodromos]

This is very much like purifications, and food, and works of justice by stonings, and many other commandments.

Not remotely. All of the examples you gave were about setting Israel apart from the rest of the nations.

God commanded them to the descendants of the man first named Jacob, then renamed Israel. God has not so commanded us. He has commanded us very differently.

No, you have misinterpreted His word.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

33 Again, you heard that it was said to the ancients: You will not swear falsely, but you will pay to the LORD your oaths; 34 but I say to you not to swear at all; neither by Heaven, because it is the throne of God,
Matthew 5:33-34

Interesting how many say they interpret the above words to mean nothing at all to them and to righteousness, citing all sorts of sources, including Moses!, but never the mouth of God Himself.

 

[prodromos]

citing all sorts of sources, including Moses!, but never the mouth of God Himself.

So Moses was lying was he? You can't trust that he was a faithful witness to what God told him to tell Israel? I guess all those references in the Psalms about keeping your vows to the Lord was just David speaking, and wasn't at all inspired by the Holy Spirit? While you're at it, you might as well call in to question every time one of the prophets stated, "Thus says the Lord"

 

[ViaCrucis]

I ask because of that which the Lord has said.

Jesus said nothing about vows.

But He did condemn acts of vain performative religion such as making grandiose oaths.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

So really it's everyone should repent of any vows they've ever made, including marriage vows.

Or, presumably, to follow Jesus as His disciple.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

Jesus said nothing about vows.

33 “Again you have heard that it was said to the ancient ones, ‘You shall not make false vows, but shall perform to the Lord your vows,’ 34 but I tell you, don’t swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is the throne of God; 35 nor by the earth, for it is the footstool of his feet; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shall you swear by your head, for you can’t make one hair white or black. 37 But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes’ and your ‘No’ be ‘No.’ Whatever is more than these is of the evil one.
Matthew 5:33-37 (WEB)

A sworn vow is a sworn oath, a sworn oath is a sworn vow. They are synonyms.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

So Moses was lying was he? You can't trust that he was a faithful witness to what God told him to tell Israel? I guess all those references in the Psalms about keeping your vows to the Lord was just David speaking, and wasn't at all inspired by the Holy Spirit? While you're at it, you might as well call in to question every time one of the prophets stated, "Thus says the Lord"

Certainly no one today obeys most of the laws of Moses, no matter what they say about Moses, or claim about themselves. And certainly, many of the prophets spoke of events that have already passed, and we must indeed question in order to learn which is the case.

We must not rely on Moses to tell us when we are pure and when we are defiled. We must rely on Christ the Lord, because we do not apply to the laws of Moses which were not given for us. In identical fashion, we must not rely on Moses to tell us about food being unclean, and many other issues. We must rely on Christ the Lord, and the Comforter that He sent.

The laws of Moses are fulfilled, in the crucifixion of God. No longer does anyone approach God, by the laws of Moses. The only approach to God is to the Son.

 

[ViaCrucis]

33 “Again you have heard that it was said to the ancient ones, ‘You shall not make false vows, but shall perform to the Lord your vows,’ 34 but I tell you, don’t swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is the throne of God; 35 nor by the earth, for it is the footstool of his feet; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shall you swear by your head, for you can’t make one hair white or black. 37 But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes’ and your ‘No’ be ‘No.’ Whatever is more than these is of the evil one.
Matthew 5:33-37 (WEB)

A sworn vow is a sworn oath, a sworn oath is a sworn vow. They are synonyms

I simply cannot take your interpretation of Jesus seriously here.

What you are advocating isn't following Jesus, it's mere performative moralism.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[prodromos]

Certainly no one today obeys most of the laws of Moses, no matter what they say about Moses, or claim about themselves. And certainly, many of the prophets spoke of events that have already passed, and we must indeed question in order to learn which is the case.

We must not rely on Moses to tell us when we are pure and when we are defiled. We must rely on Christ the Lord, because we do not apply to the laws of Moses which were not given for us. In identical fashion, we must not rely on Moses to tell us about food being unclean, and many other issues. We must rely on Christ the Lord, and the Comforter that He sent.

The laws of Moses are fulfilled, in the crucifixion of God. No longer does anyone approach God, by the laws of Moses. The only approach to God is to the Son.

Nothing you say here addresses what I said. Is Moses a faithful witness of what God commanded or not?
Are the Psalms inspired by the Holy Spirit or not?

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

Nothing you say here addresses what I said. Is Moses a faithful witness of what God commanded or not?
Are the Psalms inspired by the Holy Spirit or not?

The Law of Moses is not what God commanded us. It it interesting that you try to pretend otherwise. Certainly you do not obey the Law of Moses, or whichever nation of this world in which you are, would not be permitting you access to this forum. And Christ the Lord Himself did not obey many of the Laws of Moses: certainly those requiring executions.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

I simply cannot take your interpretation of Jesus seriously here.

What you are advocating isn't following Jesus, it's mere performative moralism.

-CryptoLutheran

Again, you have been told to swear vows, that ancient people swore vows, that an Apostle and people near him swore vows, and therefore, that it is good to do so, that the definition of a true vow is your own behavior, as they said.

But I tell you, as Christ the Lord has told us, do not swear at all.

Do not put your hand on any book and imagine that that makes your words of more significance and power, because the contents of that book is not yours, it is His.

Let your "Yes" be "Yes" and your "No" be "No". Anything more than "yes" or "no", is of the evil one.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Again, you have been told to swear vows, that ancient people swore vows, that an Apostle and people near him swore vows, and therefore, that it is good to do so, that the definition of a true vow is your own behavior, as they said.

But I tell you, as Christ the Lord has told us, do not swear at all.

Do not put your hand on any book and imagine that that makes your words of more significance and power, because the contents of that book is not yours, it is His.

Let your "Yes" be "Yes" and your "No" be "No". Anything more than "yes" or "no", is of the evil one.

Nobody has told me to swear anything.

But, I'll repeat what I've already said. I consider your interpretation to be nothing more than performative moralism. This is no different than the Pharisees who were against Jesus for plucking grain to eat on the Sabbath. This isn't taking Jesus seriously, this is making a mockery of what Jesus said for self-indulgent pseudo-religion.

-CryptoLutheran