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Why don't church-priests, monks, and nuns repent of the vows which they swore?

JEBofChristTheLord

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Many have so repented; but oddly, for the descriptions to exist as they do, they cannot repent of the vows which they swore. And the same with their higher authorities; with every increase, they swear more vows. I wonder why they do not repent of this.
 

com7fy8

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First, I am not going to assume you find that they need to repent. You have asked why they don't repent of making vows; but you have not given any reason why you find they need to. So, maybe you find they do, maybe not. Who am I to assume??

Why, philosophically and ethically, would they need to repent of taking their vows?
 
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com7fy8

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Years ago, I wanted to become a Catholic priest. And it seemed they were not convinced. So, I offered to Jesus that I would take a vow of celibacy even before being accepted into a seminary. I figured an early vow could make brownie points for me, to convince them I really wanted to become a priest.

So, then, I told my college chaplain that I had taken the vow. He said, no way! I needed to get married to a very loving wife so I could discover love. And he suspended the vow.

Well . . . for some strange reason . . . I never got into seminary and I have not been able to get married, and I am now 77. Does this mean Jesus has held me to my vow? I have been trusting Him to guide me in every thing, and things have not added up to marriage. However, now I have my 88 year old lady companion; we have been sharing for about eleven years. And with her I have discovered love which is better than any romantic stuff I have ever fallen into. And our intimacy is deeper and better than sexual intimacy, I would say. And this love feeds my relating with other Christians, also; so I see that this is God's all-loving love, not only for her. But she is more mature as an 88 year old person; so she is capable of more mature loving. And what we do is not the same as God has for me with other Christians. But the deep goodness of God's love is in other relationships, too . . . waiting for me to get even more corrected and free of lust stuff and it's fake love and false intimacy.

So, I see how Jesus has been able to bring me to real loving, in spite of how I might have taken an unwise vow.

I was a pretty love stupid person while I was trying to become a priest. I was not a person to be taking vows to decide what I would do after I had become older and wiser.

If I am now a mature Christian brother . . . impr:)vable, :)f c:)urse . . . does God want me to keep a vow I made while I was an unsaved love idiot??
 
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RileyG

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Celibacy is a choice.

There are indeed married Catholic priests both within the western rite from those who converted and the smaller eastern rite.

Some women, after becoming widowed, become a Catholic religious sister or nun.

Also, the terms nun, religious sister, monk, and religious brother are not necessarily interchangeable. They have different meanings.
 
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Aaron112

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to keep a vow

"Keeping Vows in the Bible (except when repentance required for a vow to sin, or a sinful vow)​

"The Bible emphasizes the importance of keeping one’s vows, even if it is difficult or costly. This principle is highlighted in Psalm 15:4, which describes a righteous person as one “who keeps an oath even when it hurts, and does not change their mind.” This verse underscores the value of integrity and the importance of one’s word, suggesting that a person’s commitment to their promises should be steadfast, regardless of the personal cost.
Additionally, Jesus’ teachings in Matthew 5 support this principle by advising against the use of elaborate expressions or oaths to lend credibility to one’s words. Instead, Jesus emphasizes the importance of one’s word being reliable, advocating for simplicity in communication and commitment.
The Old Testament also provides examples of this principle, such as the story of Amaziah, the king of Judah, who, despite facing financial strain, remained committed to his promises and obligations."
 
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chevyontheriver

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Do you ask because you oppose all vows, or do you have something else in mind?
Could it be that it's limited to opposition to CATHOLIC vows?
 
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PloverWing

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Could it be that it's limited to opposition to CATHOLIC vows?

That actually didn't occur to me, since my church also has priests, monks, and nuns. :)

My guess was that it was an objection to swearing oaths, based on Matthew 5:33-37, similar to the practice of the Quakers.

@JEBofChristTheLord , can you clarify what you have in mind? Do you object to all vows (marriage vows, baptismal vows, swearing to tell the truth in court), or just ordination vows? In my tradition, our priests promise to do things like faithfully study the Scriptures and to pattern their lives after the teachings of Christ, and I don't see anything there that a person should repent of. So, which vows do you want people to set aside, and why?
 
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RileyG

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That actually didn't occur to me, since my church also has priests, monks, and nuns. :)

My guess was that it was an objection to swearing oaths, based on Matthew 5:33-37, similar to the practice of the Quakers.

@JEBofChristTheLord , can you clarify what you have in mind? Do you object to all vows (marriage vows, baptismal vows, swearing to tell the truth in court), or just ordination vows? In my tradition, our priests promise to do things like faithfully study the Scriptures and to pattern their lives after the teachings of Christ, and I don't see anything there that a person should repent of. So, which vows do you want people to set aside, and why?
There are even Lutheran monks and nuns ;)

Anglican/Episcopalian and Lutheran nuns and monks aren’t exactly commonly heard of. Most associate nuns and monks with Catholicism (or Orthodoxy)

;)
 
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JEBofChristTheLord

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That actually didn't occur to me, since my church also has priests, monks, and nuns. :)

My guess was that it was an objection to swearing oaths, based on Matthew 5:33-37, similar to the practice of the Quakers.

@JEBofChristTheLord , can you clarify what you have in mind? Do you object to all vows (marriage vows, baptismal vows, swearing to tell the truth in court), or just ordination vows? In my tradition, our priests promise to do things like faithfully study the Scriptures and to pattern their lives after the teachings of Christ, and I don't see anything there that a person should repent of. So, which vows do you want people to set aside, and why?
Do I object? I am not concerned with myself and any objections of mine. I am concerned with that which Christ the Lord has said on the subject.
 
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PloverWing

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JEBofChristTheLord

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What the Lord has said on the subject is quite widely known.

By many words, many try hard to make the words of Christ the Lord of no effect. Christ the Lord does not limit His statement, to any particular set of vows. He does not agree that there are "evil" vows and "other" vows, as many taught. He says that anything more than yes, yes and no, no, is of evil. And so it is.
"Keeping Vows in the Bible (except when repentance required for a vow to sin, or a sinful vow)
"The Bible emphasizes the importance of keeping one’s vows, even if it is difficult or costly. This principle is highlighted in Psalm 15:4, which describes a righteous person as one “who keeps an oath even when it hurts, and does not change their mind.” This verse underscores the value of integrity and the importance of one’s word, suggesting that a person’s commitment to their promises should be steadfast, regardless of the personal cost.
Additionally, Jesus’ teachings in Matthew 5 support this principle by advising against the use of elaborate expressions or oaths to lend credibility to one’s words. Instead, Jesus emphasizes the importance of one’s word being reliable, advocating for simplicity in communication and commitment.
The Old Testament also provides examples of this principle, such as the story of Amaziah, the king of Judah, who, despite facing financial strain, remained committed to his promises and obligations."
 
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PloverWing

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Thanks, that helps. So I think your focus is on the making of vows. It's not about clergy or monastic orders, but rather about how we should avoid making vows at all. Correct?

I think the Quakers are correct to pay close attention to Matthew 5. I share with them a reluctance to swear to anything or to make vows or take oaths. If we live lives of integrity and truth-telling, then there is little need to say "I swear that I am now going to tell the truth".

In my own life, I have two sets of vows that I consider binding on me: my baptismal vows, and my wedding vows. As you understand Matthew 5, would you recommend that people avoid making vows in these contexts -- promising to follow Christ, and promising to be faithful to one's spouse?

(As a note, the Quakers do not baptize, so they do not have baptismal vows. They do marry, and I don't know how they view the promises one typically makes at one's wedding. I'll have to ask one of my Quaker friends.)
 
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ozso

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What the Lord has said on the subject is quite widely known.

By many words, many try hard to make the words of Christ the Lord of no effect. Christ the Lord does not limit His statement, to any particular set of vows. He does not agree that there are "evil" vows and "other" vows, as many taught. He says that anything more than yes, yes and no, no, is of evil. And so it is.
Okay so what specific vows do priests, monks and nuns need to repent of? So far you're being vague and cryptic.

 
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JEBofChristTheLord

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Okay so what specific vows do priests, monks and nuns need to repent of?
All of them. I notice that every one of those designations is given according to sworn vows.

Thanks, that helps. So I think your focus is on the making of vows. It's not about clergy or monastic orders, but rather about how we should avoid making vows at all. Correct?
Yep.
I think the Quakers are correct to pay close attention to Matthew 5. I share with them a reluctance to swear to anything or to make vows or take oaths. If we live lives of integrity and truth-telling, then there is little need to say "I swear that I am now going to tell the truth".
Agreed. I don't add words to it though. Christ the Lord described all swearing of vows as of evil. This is quite a thing.
In my own life, I have two sets of vows that I consider binding on me: my baptismal vows, and my wedding vows. As you understand Matthew 5, would you recommend that people avoid making vows in these contexts -- promising to follow Christ, and promising to be faithful to one's spouse?
A "promise" can be a simple affirmation...or it can be swearing a vow. Quite a number of human groups, including most if not all of the eastern churches, have vow-less marriages, which was interesting for me to learn recently.
 
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ozso

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All of them. I notice that every one of those designations is given according to sworn vows.


Yep.

Agreed. I don't add words to it though. Christ the Lord described all swearing of vows as of evil. This is quite a thing.

A "promise" can be a simple affirmation...or it can be swearing a vow. Quite a number of human groups, including most if not all of the eastern churches, have vow-less marriages, which was interesting for me to learn recently.
So really it's everyone should repent of any vows they've ever made, including marriage vows.
 
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