What exactly is lying?

[LovebirdsFlying]

I think we need a light-hearted fluff thread now and then. At least, I do. It may not seem important, but sometimes I like to overthink, and right now this is a good distraction for me. Something else to think about.

Up for discussion, just how cut and dried are the definitions of truth and lie?

My husband works nights. I'm sitting in the living room when I see that he has texted me. He wants me to please turn on a faucet to a trickle so that our pipes don't freeze and bust because it's expected to get very cold here.

I text back, "Done." Then I immediately get up and go do as he asked me to do.

At the moment I texted him back, I had not yet done it, although I did fully intend to do it right away. Since it was not in fact done yet, would you say I lied to him? Or does the fact that I immediately got up and did it make me honest? If I had somehow been distracted along the way, say something happened to one of the cats, and I took care of that instead, and never did get around to actually turning on the faucet, would that have been lying to him? Or does lying have to be something I do on purpose, i.e. telling him I did it but I knew full well I had no plans to? If I did lie by telling him, "Done," before I actually did it, should I have texted back, "Will do," instead?

How rigid are the honesty rules anyway?

 

[Bradskii]

If I said 'done' it would be considered as me agreeing to what was being asked. If I said 'I just did it' and then went out and turned on the tap (aka faucet) then it's not really a lie. It's telling the truth a little early.

Lies are on a continuum. From 'of course you look good in that dress' to...well, pick your worst lie possible. Most of the time we...bend the truth.

Edit: This may turn out to be a lot more of serious topic than you thought.

 

[ozso]

I view it as an abbreviation of "consider it done". And if I was in your husband's position, and the unexpected kept you from doing it, I certainly wouldn't have felt like I had been lied to.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I think we need a light-hearted fluff thread now and then. At least, I do. It may not seem important, but sometimes I like to overthink, and right now this is a good distraction for me. Something else to think about.

Up for discussion, just how cut and dried are the definitions of truth and lie?

My husband works nights. I'm sitting in the living room when I see that he has texted me. He wants me to please turn on a faucet to a trickle so that our pipes don't freeze and bust because it's expected to get very cold here.

I text back, "Done." Then I immediately get up and go do as he asked me to do.

At the moment I texted him back, I had not yet done it, although I did fully intend to do it right away. Since it was not in fact done yet, would you say I lied to him? Or does the fact that I immediately got up and did it make me honest? If I had somehow been distracted along the way, say something happened to one of the cats, and I took care of that instead, and never did get around to actually turning on the faucet, would that have been lying to him? Or does lying have to be something I do on purpose, i.e. telling him I did it but I knew full well I had no plans to? If I did lie by telling him, "Done," before I actually did it, should I have texted back, "Will do," instead?

How rigid are the honesty rules anyway?

A good way to know is how your conscience reacts to the claim or deed . We all know how it feels to tell a lie because His Holy Spirit stirs that conscience. We can choose to go with the claim or deed anyway by quenching His Holy Spirit or we can take a pause, repent, and change our mind. Blessings

 

[Mark Quayle]

I think we need a light-hearted fluff thread now and then. At least, I do. It may not seem important, but sometimes I like to overthink, and right now this is a good distraction for me. Something else to think about.

Up for discussion, just how cut and dried are the definitions of truth and lie?

My husband works nights. I'm sitting in the living room when I see that he has texted me. He wants me to please turn on a faucet to a trickle so that our pipes don't freeze and bust because it's expected to get very cold here.

I text back, "Done." Then I immediately get up and go do as he asked me to do.

At the moment I texted him back, I had not yet done it, although I did fully intend to do it right away. Since it was not in fact done yet, would you say I lied to him? Or does the fact that I immediately got up and did it make me honest? If I had somehow been distracted along the way, say something happened to one of the cats, and I took care of that instead, and never did get around to actually turning on the faucet, would that have been lying to him? Or does lying have to be something I do on purpose, i.e. telling him I did it but I knew full well I had no plans to? If I did lie by telling him, "Done," before I actually did it, should I have texted back, "Will do," instead?

How rigid are the honesty rules anyway?

OH NO!!! How is that lighthearted fluff??? I mean, the ten commandments refer to "false witness against someone", not, "inexact representation of facts." So there's one discussion. Another discussion deals with the fact that "all liars" will not make it to Heaven! Heavy stuff!!!! Somebody here may even claim that your notion that this is a lighthearted subject demonstrates your lack of seriousness about obedience!!!

So, I'll add to the fun, since I might have said, "Yes, doing it!" which might lead him to think I was already doing it, and he need not have asked!

I run into this all the time. No matter what I say, it can be taken to mean something false or part-true, or, an accurate representation of the facts would take so long that the person being responded to will just wish I would shut up! I often end up saying something "for short".

Even on these forums, there are sometimes not enough characters allowed on a post to present an 'honest' treatment of even an individual sub-subject, nor do many care to read the 'wall of text' that ensues.

 

[d taylor]

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Lying is purposely deceiving.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I think we need a light-hearted fluff thread now and then. At least, I do. It may not seem important, but sometimes I like to overthink, and right now this is a good distraction for me. Something else to think about.

Up for discussion, just how cut and dried are the definitions of truth and lie?

My husband works nights. I'm sitting in the living room when I see that he has texted me. He wants me to please turn on a faucet to a trickle so that our pipes don't freeze and bust because it's expected to get very cold here.

I text back, "Done." Then I immediately get up and go do as he asked me to do.

At the moment I texted him back, I had not yet done it, although I did fully intend to do it right away. Since it was not in fact done yet, would you say I lied to him? Or does the fact that I immediately got up and did it make me honest? If I had somehow been distracted along the way, say something happened to one of the cats, and I took care of that instead, and never did get around to actually turning on the faucet, would that have been lying to him? Or does lying have to be something I do on purpose, i.e. telling him I did it but I knew full well I had no plans to? If I did lie by telling him, "Done," before I actually did it, should I have texted back, "Will do," instead?

How rigid are the honesty rules anyway?

Here's another.

I drove a vehicle over 5K miles to get home, after being told it was mine 'for free'. But part of the deal was that in the car becoming mine, I would have to tow a U-Haul trailer full of very heavy stuff with it, for 2,500 of those miles. Besides the fact that the car had been sitting in Arizona sun for 3 or 4 years, crystalizing all the rubber and plastic --I had to replace the unworn tires and several other things -- and the story goes on and on-- during the trip, whenever the gas tank had over 3/4 tank it seeped enough that I could smell gas whenever I stopped. When I sold the car (for about 300 less than it had cost me) I told them I had no issues during the trip. My conscience made me tell them that it had sat in Arizona 3 or 4 years, which is hard on several systems and particularly on rubber parts, but once I got home I fixed the gas leak, and, from my POV the seeping tank was not really an issue on the trip, leaking so little that it made no visible difference in mileage, nor was there danger of explosion.

While my conscience may have wanted me to spend more time explaining everything that had been wrong, and to mention all the things that still concerned me, but were not at present "issues", their eyes were already wandering about, looking for an escape.

See? Even here I had to consider whether or not to say, "...hard on rubber [and plastic] parts"!

Are your eyes glazing over yet? I could go on...

 

[Chesterton]

Okay you want a light-hearted fluff thread, so I have nothing to contribute but a bit of humor. Old joke:

There was this captain and his first mate on a sailing ship. He had been an excellent first mate for many, many years, but one day after shore leave he returned to the ship drunk. The captain wrote in his log "The first mate was drunk today". It was the truth, but the first mate felt it was unfair to include that in the log after many years of faithful service. So one day it was the first mate's turn to keep the log, and he wrote "The captain was sober today", which also was the truth.

So it's actually possible to lie by telling the truth.

 

[Freth]

There is a lesson to be learned in how Abram perpetuated a lie about Sarai, his wife, when he went to Egypt (Genesis 10:10-20). He called her his sister, thinking to protect her from being taken and himself being killed. The lie would have backfired had God not intervened; the Pharaoh was set on taking Sarai as a wife, until plagues fell upon him. Abram's lie is an example of what we would consider to be a "white lie". In this story we can see that even a white lie is wrong and can have dire consequences.

White lies are something I've struggled with. My most recent example was an effort to shield a friend from a harsh truth. I knew a question would come up, and I told myself not to lie about it many times before arriving in the company of my friend, but I ended up doing it anyway. It came out almost as if it was second nature (it is second nature: sin).

 

[ozso]

I remember asking about this once after I lied to someone. Back when I was working security at a waterfront, the person on cameras saw a man carrying lage rocks and stacking them by the railroad tracks. We'd get a lot of mentally ill and stoned people in the area, and he was concerned the guy might be trying to derail a train. So we picked up the rocks and tossed them over a railing into the sea.

Sure enough the man showed up a little while later and agitatedly asked me what happened to his rocks. So I lied and said "I don't know what you're talking about". Obviously if I had told him the truth he might have flown off the handle and come after me. I was pretty sure having dealt with these types of folks a lot, that my telling him what I said would defuse him, which it did. So in this case I lied for both his sake and to protect myself.

 

[timothyu]

I did lie by telling him, "Done," before I actually did it, should I have texted back, "Will do," instead?

Will do might be better, but your sub-conscious had already done the deed in your mind and the subconscious intention was to show your commitment to the job. It was not an outright deception as a true lie would be, because deception seeks gain at another's expense.

 

[eleos1954]

If I said 'done' it would be considered as me agreeing to what was being asked. If I said 'I just did it' and then went out and turned on the tap (aka faucet) then it's not really a lie. It's telling the truth a little early.

Lies are on a continuum. From 'of course you look good in that dress' to...well, pick your worst lie possible. Most of the time we...bend the truth.

Edit: This may turn out to be a lot more of serious topic than you thought.

The truth is factual and accurate, while a lie is a statement that is intentionally false or misleading.

In the example ... if you didn't actually do the task and claimed that you did that's a lie (misleading) ... bending the truth is a lie.

 

[Bradskii]

The truth is factual and accurate, while a lie is a statement that is intentionally false or misleading.

In the example ... if you didn't actually do the task and claimed that you did that's a lie (misleading) ... bending the truth is a lie.

Maybe you're not married. I don't know.

 

[KevinT]

... At the moment I texted him back, I had not yet done it, although I did fully intend to do it right away. Since it was not in fact done yet, would you say I lied to him? Or does the fact that I immediately got up and did it make me honest? If I had somehow been distracted along the way, say something happened to one of the cats, and I took care of that instead, and never did get around to actually turning on the faucet, would that have been lying to him? Or does lying have to be something I do on purpose, i.e. telling him I did it but I knew full well I had no plans to? If I did lie by telling him, "Done," before I actually did it, should I have texted back, "Will do," instead?

How rigid are the honesty rules anyway?

I don't consider it a lie, but let me give a different take on this. In my job, I am often pulled in multiple directions. So sometimes I will begin a short task, but even before I can complete it, someone will ask me this pressing question or that. And before I know it, the other train of thought has flown right out of my head. So I personally would be very cautious of stating I had done a think until I had actually completed it. But that is a different situation from what you described.

KT

 

[Zaha Torte]

I think we need a light-hearted fluff thread now and then. At least, I do. It may not seem important, but sometimes I like to overthink, and right now this is a good distraction for me. Something else to think about.

Up for discussion, just how cut and dried are the definitions of truth and lie?

My husband works nights. I'm sitting in the living room when I see that he has texted me. He wants me to please turn on a faucet to a trickle so that our pipes don't freeze and bust because it's expected to get very cold here.

I text back, "Done." Then I immediately get up and go do as he asked me to do.

At the moment I texted him back, I had not yet done it, although I did fully intend to do it right away. Since it was not in fact done yet, would you say I lied to him? Or does the fact that I immediately got up and did it make me honest? If I had somehow been distracted along the way, say something happened to one of the cats, and I took care of that instead, and never did get around to actually turning on the faucet, would that have been lying to him? Or does lying have to be something I do on purpose, i.e. telling him I did it but I knew full well I had no plans to? If I did lie by telling him, "Done," before I actually did it, should I have texted back, "Will do," instead?

How rigid are the honesty rules anyway?

I would have interpreted your "Done" as an "I'm on it!"

I would not consider this to be a lie since you planned on and did do it.

If the act is sure - then it isn't a lie.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Thank you for your responses so far. They're as varied as I'd hoped. I'd like to go through and dissect some, but I'm currently not up to the task.

I seem to recall, years ago, when I was young and healthy and could still do this, I stood up on a crowded bus to give my seat to a frail-looking elderly lady who had just gotten on. She didn't see at first, so I pointed out the now vacated seat to her. She gratefully sat down, but then after a moment, she asked me, "Did you give up your seat for me?"

I smiled and answered, "No, ma'am."

Which was, of course, a lie. My dilemma was, if I had told her the truth, she might have stood up and insisted that I keep the seat. I was worried about her safety. Letting her stand while I sat would have felt worse to me than the deception did. I'm not sure I wouldn't do the same thing again, except that now I'm somewhat of an older lady myself.

 

[Mark Quayle]

There is a lesson to be learned in how Abram perpetuated a lie about Sarai, his wife, when he went to Egypt (Genesis 10:10-20). He called her his sister, thinking to protect her from being taken and himself being killed. The lie would have backfired had God not intervened; the Pharaoh was set on taking Sarai as a wife, until plagues fell upon him. Abram's lie is an example of what we would consider to be a "white lie". In this story we can see that even a white lie is wrong and can have dire consequences.

It worked so well the first time that he did it again!

 

[Mark Quayle]

Thank you for your responses so far. They're as varied as I'd hoped. I'd like to go through and dissect some, but I'm currently not up to the task.

I seem to recall, years ago, when I was young and healthy and could still do this, I stood up on a crowded bus to give my seat to a frail-looking elderly lady who had just gotten on. She didn't see at first, so I pointed out the now vacated seat to her. She gratefully sat down, but then after a moment, she asked me, "Did you give up your seat for me?"

I smiled and answered, "No, ma'am."

Which was, of course, a lie. My dilemma was, if I had told her the truth, she might have stood up and insisted that I keep the seat. I was worried about her safety. Letting her stand while I sat would have felt worse to me than the deception did. I'm not sure I wouldn't do the same thing again, except that now I'm somewhat of an older lady myself.

Reminds me of my mother after she was well into her Alzheimer's, fell and broke her hip, and was taken to the hospital, where she thought "it is so NICE of these people to fix up this bed in this room just for me." So, is it lying to leave her so grateful and happy?

 

[Zaha Torte]

Thank you for your responses so far. They're as varied as I'd hoped. I'd like to go through and dissect some, but I'm currently not up to the task.

I seem to recall, years ago, when I was young and healthy and could still do this, I stood up on a crowded bus to give my seat to a frail-looking elderly lady who had just gotten on. She didn't see at first, so I pointed out the now vacated seat to her. She gratefully sat down, but then after a moment, she asked me, "Did you give up your seat for me?"

I smiled and answered, "No, ma'am."

Which was, of course, a lie. My dilemma was, if I had told her the truth, she might have stood up and insisted that I keep the seat. I was worried about her safety. Letting her stand while I sat would have felt worse to me than the deception did. I'm not sure I wouldn't do the same thing again, except that now I'm somewhat of an older lady myself.

I think the specific wording in the Bible about lying was to "not bear false witness" and I think that is significant because it involves so much more than we usually consider.

I believe God is more concerned about us accepting reality and not harming others than whether or not we conceal some minor truth to help others.

 

[timothyu]

My dilemma was, if I had told her the truth, she might have stood up and insisted that I keep the seat.

This is similar, but not, to helping someone of limited means at checkout, short of the amount needed, by stepping up with a bit of cash saying 'excuse me but it looks like you dropped this'. You know it is not true, they know it is not true, but it helps them save face so it becomes 'our' secret.