Well, off we go

[essentialsaltes]

For a minute there I thought we were back in 2022 and you were talking about those who chose not to get vaccinated. Talk about deja vu!

There is a huge difference between offering help that is refused, and withholding help that is needed.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Ali Alfarjalla, a 32-year-old Iraqi American real estate agent in Dearborn, said that for all his flaws, Trump represents a change from the Biden-Harris administration that has been unflinchingly supporting the Israeli assault on Gaza and Lebanon.

“We have to work more to make sure our issues are heard – to stop the genocide in Gaza, stop the invasion of south Lebanon, and let Palestine have its own state."

Eyeing Trump support, Israeli minister pushes for West Bank settlement annexation​

Israel’s far-right finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, has ordered preparations for the annexation of settlements in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.

Smotrich, who is in charge of the settlements, said on Monday that he had instructed his department to “prepare the necessary infrastructure for applying sovereignty.”

Smotrich told the Knesset, or Israeli parliament, that US President-elect Donald Trump’s victory in the US election “brings an important opportunity for the state of Israel.”

 

[durangodawood]

Eyeing Trump support, Israeli minister pushes for West Bank settlement annexation​

......
Smotrich told the Knesset, or Israeli parliament, that US President-elect Donald Trump’s victory in the US election “brings an important opportunity for the state of Israel.”

The Arab American protest vote happened because they didnt care about this^ more than punishing the Ds, or somehow couldnt imagine this consequence. Either way seems like a failure to me. Perhaps Im missing something?

(Not that the protest vote actually made the difference. But thats hindsight. Going in, it well could have.)

 

[probinson]

There is a huge difference between offering help that is refused, and withholding help that is needed.

You said, "And if they can't or won't, then they had better suffer the consequences, and decrease the surplus population." This was very much the opinion of people who were just fed up with those who chose not to get vaccinated.

There is a massive difference between "consequences" that are natural and consequences that are imposed on people. For example, telling someone, maybe we should just let you die instead of treating you is NOT a natural consequence of being unvaccinated. It is a consequence imposed by a discriminatory, ill-informed ideology.

It's an ugly part of American history to be sure, and it was disturbing to see how many people supported the othering of the unvaccinated in numerous ways, but it's not something that will be soon forgotten.

 

[essentialsaltes]

​

You said, "And if they can't or won't, then they had better suffer the consequences, and decrease the surplus population." This was very much the opinion of people who were just fed up with those who chose not to get vaccinated.

There is a massive difference between "consequences" that are natural and consequences that are imposed on people. For example, telling someone, maybe we should just let you die instead of treating you is NOT a natural consequence of being unvaccinated.

It's a free country. People can have these opinions and tell them to people, even if feelings are hurt.

This really is beside the point of offering healthcare or withholding healthcare.

 

[probinson]

It's a free country. People can have these opinions and tell them to people, even if feelings are hurt.

If we were just talking about opinions, you might have a point. But you and I both know it was far more than just a difference of opinions. People were fired from their jobs. College students were denied their education. Life-saving transplants were denied to people. People were denied access to the public. All on the basis of a vaccine that was never even tested to stop the transmission of the disease.

Lies spewed from the government and public health agencies that drove authoritarian policies, and many people showed us their true colors when they fell in line with these liberty-crushing, evidence-poor rules and mandates.

So it's kind of funny that you're tying to pretend that this is beside the point when it comes to offering healthcare. They had to tell doctors that it was unethical to deny healthcare to people because of their vaccination status, which should tell you all you need to know about those doctors and their willingness to provide or deny healthcare.

 

[essentialsaltes]

If we were just talking about opinions, you might have a point. But you and I both know it was far more than just a difference of opinions. People were fired from their jobs.

You're just Gish galloping away from the point. Talking about employment requirements for vaccination is a worthy topic, but it has nothing to do with expecting people to die from a lack of healthcare.

 

[probinson]

You're just Gish galloping away from the point. Talking about employment requirements for vaccination is a worthy topic, but it has nothing to do with expecting people to die from a lack of healthcare.

Yes, it absolutely does. If healthcare can be denied to people based on the status of whether they've followed dubious government recommendations to receive a novel vaccine that doesn't even stop transmission of the disease, then it is absolutely germane to the topic of whether people should be expected to die from a lack of healthcare.

To quote Jimmy Fallon, "Vaccinated person having a heart attack? Yes, come right in. We'll take care of you. Unvaccinated guy who gobbled horse goo? Rest in peace, wheezy."

 

[essentialsaltes]

To quote Jimmy Fallon, "Vaccinated person having a heart attack? Yes, come right in. We'll take care of you. Unvaccinated guy who gobbled horse goo? Rest in peace, wheezy."

What government healthcare program does he run?

 

[probinson]

What government healthcare program does he run?

Here's an article the NIH published on this topic.

This article provides a systematic analysis of the proposal to use Covid‐19 vaccination status as a criterion for admission of patients with Covid‐19 to intensive care units (ICUs) under conditions of resource scarcity. The general consensus is that it is inappropriate to use vaccination status as a criterion because doing so would be unjust; many health systems, including the UK National Health Service, are based on the principle of equality of access to care. However, the analysis reveals that there are several unique features of Covid vaccination status in the context of a pandemic that make this issue disanalogous to cases (such as lung cancer caused by smoking) discussed previously. First, there is equality in access to care at the point of vaccination; the unvaccinated refuse the offer of preventive care when they decline vaccination, weakening their claim to ongoing care if they become ill (this is qualitatively different from ‘poor lifestyle choices’ such as smoking). Second, the decision of one person to refuse vaccination substantially increases the risk that they will become seriously ill and need ICU care; the person who chooses not to get vaccinated thus potentially increases the pressure on intensive care bed provision, as well as increasing the risk that he or she will infect others who in turn might end up needing ICU care. Third, justice cuts both ways, and giving unvaccinated patients equal priority may itself be unjust when other patients have reduced their risk of ending up on the ICU by getting vaccinated. ​

​

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9538027/​

​

It's worth noting that the first sentence in the conclusion of the article is false.

People who choose not to get vaccinated increase the risk that others will get infected, and that someone else will be denied an ICU bed.​

​

That's simply not true. Not even Pfizer or Moderna claims that their vaccine prevents transmission of the disease.

But regardless, the point remains that denying healthcare to people based on their vaccination status was absolutely a consideration for some during the pandemic. Jimmy Kimmel just said it out loud on national TV to rousing applause.

 

[essentialsaltes]

But yes, I think that particular Michigan Muslim (and those like him/her) does qualify for the Leopards Eating Faces Party karma the OP suggested.

Muslims who voted for Trump upset by his pro-Israel cabinet picks​

“Trump won because of us and we’re not happy with his Secretary of State pick and others,” says Rabiul Chowdhury, a Philadelphia investor who chaired the Abandon Harris campaign in Pennsylvania and co-founded Muslims for Trump. Muslim support for Trump helped him win Michigan and may have factored into other swing state wins, strategists believe.

Rubio said earlier this year he would not call for a ceasefire in Gaza

Trump also nominated Mike Huckabee, a former Arkansas governor and staunch pro-Israel conservative who backs Israeli occupation of the West Bank and has called a two-state solution “unworkable,” as the next ambassador to Israel.

He has picked Republican Representative Elise Stefanik, who called the UN a “cesspool of antisemitism” for its condemnation of deaths in Gaza, to serve as US ambassador to the United Nations.

--

See also.

"They didn't vote for Trump because they believe Trump is the best candidate," Osama Siblani, publisher ofThe Arab American News, told Politico. "No, they voted for Trump because they want to punish the Democrats and Harris."

"It's clear as day that he's playing us," Alawieh added of Trump. "I think he's going to target us. That's what he's going to do. He's going to target our families, and it's going to hurt. So, I think we're about to find out."

 

[Bradskii]

You reap what you sow.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Musk asks voters to brace for 'hardship' from spending cuts in potential Trump Cabinet role

i wonder how many Leopards ate my face stories and how quickly we will be hearing them.

After backing Trump, low-income voters hope he doesn’t slash their benefits​

Lori Mosura goes to the grocery store on a bicycle because she can’t afford to fix her Ford F-150 truck.

The single mother and her 17-year-old son live in an apartment that is so small she sleeps in the dining room. They receive $1,200 each month in food stamps and Social Security benefits but still come up short.

It was all that penny-pinching that drove the part-time tax consultant to abandon the Democratic Party this fall and vote for Donald Trump.

“He is more attuned to the needs of everyone instead of just the rich,” Mosura, 55, [implausibly] said on a recent afternoon. “I think he knows it’s the poor people that got him elected, so I think Trump is going to do more to help us.”

Network exit polls suggest [Trump] erased the advantage Democrats had with low-income voters across the country.

Now, low-income Americans who voted for Trump say they are counting on him to keep their benefits intact even while his Cabinet picks and Republican lawmakers call on him to reduce federal spending.

Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy — whom Trump has chosen to lead a new nongovernmental advisory panel, the “Department of Government Efficiency” — have said they want to trim $2 trillion from the government’s annual budget, a cut that some experts say could be accomplished only by slashing entitlement programs.

[Since total discretionary spending -- all of it -- in FY2023 was $1.7 trillion, it doesn't take an expert to see that cutting $2T would require cuts to mandatory spending.]

[Although Trump has said Social Security is safe...] GOP leaders in Congress and Trump advisers are considering significant changes to Medicaid, food stamps and other federal aid.

“We helped get you in office; please take care of us,” Mosura said,shifting the conversation as though she were speaking to Trump. “Please don’t cut the things that help the most vulnerable.”

[The city Mosura lives in depends on a lot of federal aid. 90% of students qualify for free school lunches.]

City Administrator Chris Frye, a Republican and former mayor of New Castle, said he expects GOP leaders will push for some changes to how federal programs are administered. But Frye urged his party to show “empathy” when it comes to determining the actual benefits that people receive.

Davis, a retired artist, subsists on a monthly $1,300 Social Security payment and $75 in food stamps. ... Asked whether she worries that Trump’s agenda could hurt the poor, Davis said the incoming president is “too smart for that.”
“You can’t wipe out half of the population” of New Castle, Davis said. “We are old and tired and just want to be taken care of"

 

[Nithavela]

After backing Trump, low-income voters hope he doesn’t slash their benefits​

Lori Mosura goes to the grocery store on a bicycle because she can’t afford to fix her Ford F-150 truck.

The single mother and her 17-year-old son live in an apartment that is so small she sleeps in the dining room. They receive $1,200 each month in food stamps and Social Security benefits but still come up short.

It was all that penny-pinching that drove the part-time tax consultant to abandon the Democratic Party this fall and vote for Donald Trump.

“He is more attuned to the needs of everyone instead of just the rich,” Mosura, 55, [implausibly] said on a recent afternoon. “I think he knows it’s the poor people that got him elected, so I think Trump is going to do more to help us.”

Network exit polls suggest [Trump] erased the advantage Democrats had with low-income voters across the country.

Now, low-income Americans who voted for Trump say they are counting on him to keep their benefits intact even while his Cabinet picks and Republican lawmakers call on him to reduce federal spending.

Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy — whom Trump has chosen to lead a new nongovernmental advisory panel, the “Department of Government Efficiency” — have said they want to trim $2 trillion from the government’s annual budget, a cut that some experts say could be accomplished only by slashing entitlement programs.

[Since total discretionary spending -- all of it -- in FY2023 was $1.7 trillion, it doesn't take an expert to see that cutting $2T would require cuts to mandatory spending.]

[Although Trump has said Social Security is safe...] GOP leaders in Congress and Trump advisers are considering significant changes to Medicaid, food stamps and other federal aid.

“We helped get you in office; please take care of us,” Mosura said,shifting the conversation as though she were speaking to Trump. “Please don’t cut the things that help the most vulnerable.”

[The city Mosura lives in depends on a lot of federal aid. 90% of students qualify for free school lunches.]

City Administrator Chris Frye, a Republican and former mayor of New Castle, said he expects GOP leaders will push for some changes to how federal programs are administered. But Frye urged his party to show “empathy” when it comes to determining the actual benefits that people receive.

Davis, a retired artist, subsists on a monthly $1,300 Social Security payment and $75 in food stamps. ... Asked whether she worries that Trump’s agenda could hurt the poor, Davis said the incoming president is “too smart for that.”
“You can’t wipe out half of the population” of New Castle, Davis said. “We are old and tired and just want to be taken care of"

That's the beautiful thing about democracy. Once you have voted, you have no more leverage.

 

[Bradskii]

“We helped get you in office; please take care of us,” Mosura said,shifting the conversation as though she were speaking to Trump. “Please don’t cut the things that help the most vulnerable.”

“You can’t wipe out half of the population” of New Castle, Davis said. “We are old and tired and just want to be taken care of"

I like to think that I'm a good person. The better angels of my nature would have a lot of sympathy for these people. But I'm struggling...

 

[essentialsaltes]

'I don't think anyone voted for that': Trump's own fans bracing for 'catastrophic' cuts​

Tom Gambrel, the superintendent of Bell County, Kentucky, schools, joined most of his neighbors and cast his vote for Trump with his students in mind, but he told CNN that he hopes the president-elect doesn't carry through with his plan to cut federal education funding.

“I don’t think that anyone in our county wants to cut our school funding," Gambrel said, "and I don’t think that anyone voted for that."

A CNN analysis found that all 15 of the states that rely most heavily on federal support for public schools in 2022 backed Trump in November

Trump hasn't shared many details of his proposal, although he has spoken in support of shutting down the Department of Education, and Republicans proposed an 80-percent cut in 2023 to Title I, which pays teacher salaries in low-income communities

“You notice a trend here: A lot of these proposals are impacting the most vulnerable students,” said Weadé James, senior director of education policy at the Center for American Progress.

 

[Bradskii]

​

Tom Gambrel, the superintendent of Bell County, Kentucky, schools, joined most of his neighbors and cast his vote for Trump with his students in mind, but he told CNN that he hopes the president-elect doesn't carry through with his plan to cut federal education funding.

So you're in education. It's your life. It's your career. You spend each day striving to improve the educational standards of your county to improve the welfare of the students under your care. To give them the best start that they can have in life. To give them more choices as to what they will do. And you literally vote for the guy who has promised to cut resources in education?

 

[Nithavela]

So you're in education. It's your life. It's your career. You spend each day striving to improve the educational standards of your county to improve the welfare of the students under your care. To give them the best start that they can have in life. To give them more choices as to what they will do. And you literally vote for the guy who has promised to cut resources in education?

Didn't you pay attention? Nobody wants to cut education.

Any eventual loss of funds to education will be the result of Obama meddling with Trump's decrees to make him look bad.

 

[Servus]

After backing Trump, low-income voters hope he doesn’t slash their benefits​

Lori Mosura goes to the grocery store on a bicycle because she can’t afford to fix her Ford F-150 truck.

The single mother and her 17-year-old son live in an apartment that is so small she sleeps in the dining room. They receive $1,200 each month in food stamps and Social Security benefits but still come up short.

It was all that penny-pinching that drove the part-time tax consultant to abandon the Democratic Party this fall and vote for Donald Trump.

“He is more attuned to the needs of everyone instead of just the rich,” Mosura, 55, [implausibly] said on a recent afternoon. “I think he knows it’s the poor people that got him elected, so I think Trump is going to do more to help us.”

Network exit polls suggest [Trump] erased the advantage Democrats had with low-income voters across the country.

Now, low-income Americans who voted for Trump say they are counting on him to keep their benefits intact even while his Cabinet picks and Republican lawmakers call on him to reduce federal spending.

Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy — whom Trump has chosen to lead a new nongovernmental advisory panel, the “Department of Government Efficiency” — have said they want to trim $2 trillion from the government’s annual budget, a cut that some experts say could be accomplished only by slashing entitlement programs.

[Since total discretionary spending -- all of it -- in FY2023 was $1.7 trillion, it doesn't take an expert to see that cutting $2T would require cuts to mandatory spending.]

[Although Trump has said Social Security is safe...] GOP leaders in Congress and Trump advisers are considering significant changes to Medicaid, food stamps and other federal aid.

“We helped get you in office; please take care of us,” Mosura said,shifting the conversation as though she were speaking to Trump. “Please don’t cut the things that help the most vulnerable.”

[The city Mosura lives in depends on a lot of federal aid. 90% of students qualify for free school lunches.]

City Administrator Chris Frye, a Republican and former mayor of New Castle, said he expects GOP leaders will push for some changes to how federal programs are administered. But Frye urged his party to show “empathy” when it comes to determining the actual benefits that people receive.

Davis, a retired artist, subsists on a monthly $1,300 Social Security payment and $75 in food stamps. ... Asked whether she worries that Trump’s agenda could hurt the poor, Davis said the incoming president is “too smart for that.”
“You can’t wipe out half of the population” of New Castle, Davis said. “We are old and tired and just want to be taken care of"

Looks like this is about all the bad stuff the Trump administration hasn't actually done.

 

[Servus]

'I don't think anyone voted for that': Trump's own fans bracing for 'catastrophic' cuts​

Tom Gambrel, the superintendent of Bell County, Kentucky, schools, joined most of his neighbors and cast his vote for Trump with his students in mind, but he told CNN that he hopes the president-elect doesn't carry through with his plan to cut federal education funding.

“I don’t think that anyone in our county wants to cut our school funding," Gambrel said, "and I don’t think that anyone voted for that."

A CNN analysis found that all 15 of the states that rely most heavily on federal support for public schools in 2022 backed Trump in November

Trump hasn't shared many details of his proposal, although he has spoken in support of shutting down the Department of Education, and Republicans proposed an 80-percent cut in 2023 to Title I, which pays teacher salaries in low-income communities

“You notice a trend here: A lot of these proposals are impacting the most vulnerable students,” said Weadé James, senior director of education policy at the Center for American Progress.

Another alarming and worrisome article about the bad stuff the Trump admin hasn't actually done.

The administration hasn't even started yet and already poor people have been stripped of all hope and the education system has been dismantled.

Next comes the labor camps.