Don Jr’s Greenland MAGA ‘supporters’ included unhoused people who were offered free lunch, Danish press reports

[Arcangl86]

Also, I don't think it's far off to say that becoming a part of the United States would be a solid benefit to any modern country, because of our traditional "self-government" style principles... It's a very desirable quality as far as advanced civilizations go.

What do you mean by "self-government". If you are talking about local autonomy, that's pretty common in both federal and unitary states.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I was a toddler at the time, so I don't think I had any ability to form an opinion of those events. Again, you seem to be reaching for any opportunity to criticize people for being critical of Trump, to no particular end.

Actually, what I'm criticizing, is this notion that "if we just find this one additional thing that we can say is uniquely bad about Trump and those who surround him, it'll make them see the error of their ways and then they'll vote for our team"

To me, that represents a deflection and a warped view of what's actually happening.

It's a deflection in in a sense that, it's implying that there's nothing noteworthy that people on the left are doing that could be pushing people away.

And it's a warped way of thinking in that, the failure to acknowledge the former is creating this ethos in which they think "we're doing everything right, the people voting the other way must just be brainwashed by the Cult of MAGA, the only solution is let's just keep tossing another brick of 'example of bad thing he did' up on the wall in hopes that eventually it will sway people back over."

It's clearly not working.

I'm going to make a bold assertion and suggest that if Democrats spent half as much time focusing on "what should we do, or stop doing, to make people like us more?" as they spend on "what can we do to try to make people like republicans less?", they'd probably improve their success rate.

And that's what most of these threads that pop up are. Since their 2024 defeat, I don't know that I've seen a single thread started by a democrat asking the question "What can we do better in 2028?", they've all just been the same old "Look at this bad thing that happened in Maga-sphere today!" type threads, or the even less effective "attribute motives of isms and phobias to why those other people voted for him"

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Such as? Because I would say that most of the people objecting to this publicity stunt also took issue with our "nation-building" exercises in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Our interventions in Libya would be another example:

Finding a select subset of people willing to wave a star spangled banner in Tripoli for a good press photo (despite most of the country/region not viewing us favorably) would be an example.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

A Trump feeding the hungry and the Left explodes.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

And that's what most of these threads that pop up are. Since their 2024 defeat, I don't know that I've seen a single thread started by a democrat asking the question "What can we do better in 2028?", they've all just been the same old "Look at this bad thing that happened in Maga-sphere today!" type threads, or the even less effective "attribute motives of isms and phobias to why those other people voted for him"

If you want to see certain types of threads made, go make them. Nothing stopping you.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

If you want to see certain types of threads made, go make them. Nothing stopping you.

Oh, I've tried making posts like that, it's immediately dismissed as "both sidesing" or somehow flipped around to be a "wellyeahbut, here's why Trump is worse".

(I believe there was a thread that someone else created a few days back, but it must have gotten taken down for some reason or another because I notice it's not in my notifications anymore...but it was the same thing there, more Trump bashing with a side of defensive "oh, so it's democrats' own fault that people like a racist sexist authoritarian!")


Having me make a thread about it isn't going to do any good. I'm an independent who didn't vote in 2024.

Self-reflection would need to come from someone who's actually registered with that party.

 

[Landon Caeli]

What do you mean by "self-government". If you are talking about local autonomy, that's pretty common in both federal and unitary states.

I just learned about the concept recently, so wouldn't feel comfortable trying to explain it yet. But it's definitely not a right-wing idea. It's more scholarly/ academic - I think they teach about it in colleges.

 

[durangodawood]

Actually, what I'm criticizing, is this notion that "if we just find this one additional thing that we can say is uniquely bad about Trump and those who surround him, it'll make them see the error of their ways and then they'll vote for our team"

To me, that represents a deflection and a warped view of what's actually happening.

It's a deflection in in a sense that, it's implying that there's nothing noteworthy that people on the left are doing that could be pushing people away.

And it's a warped way of thinking in that, the failure to acknowledge the former is creating this ethos in which they think "we're doing everything right, the people voting the other way must just be brainwashed by the Cult of MAGA, the only solution is let's just keep tossing another brick of 'example of bad thing he did' up on the wall in hopes that eventually it will sway people back over."

It's clearly not working.

I'm going to make a bold assertion and suggest that if Democrats spent half as much time focusing on "what should we do, or stop doing, to make people like us more?" as they spend on "what can we do to try to make people like republicans less?", they'd probably improve their success rate.

And that's what most of these threads that pop up are. Since their 2024 defeat, I don't know that I've seen a single thread started by a democrat asking the question "What can we do better in 2028?", they've all just been the same old "Look at this bad thing that happened in Maga-sphere today!" type threads, or the even less effective "attribute motives of isms and phobias to why those other people voted for him"

I think its good to point out when local support for a Greenland transfer is faked.

I mean, if the locals are actually sick of Denmark and are super maga, it would be good to know.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I think its good to point out when local support for a Greenland transfer is faked.

I mean, if the locals are actually sick of Denmark and are super maga, it would be good to know.

I don't think there's anything to suggest that they're super Maga, based on some other articles and interviews I've seen, it would appear as if Greenland is sick of being an owned territory, full stop... and would like to be their own autonomous country and not the property of the US or Denmark.

 

[Chesterton]

I wonder if the meals included danishes, which could be either ironic or symbolic, one or the other.

 

[durangodawood]

I don't think there's anything to suggest that they're super Maga, based on some other articles and interviews I've seen, it would appear as if Greenland is sick of being an owned territory, full stop... and would like to be their own autonomous country and not the property of the US or Denmark.

Yeah. That the important thing here. Are the sentiments on display real and held by most of the people. Or are they faked up by the Trump group to gin up support and rationale for their proposal

Theres a substantial policy position at stake here. Not just pointless finger pointing about politicians being disingenuous.

 

[tampasteve]

Greenland belongs to America, and anxiously awaits the arrival of our astro-men. Will you be among them?

 

[Chesterton]

I think its good to point out when local support for a Greenland transfer is faked.

I mean, if the locals are actually sick of Denmark and are super maga, it would be good to know.

Yeah. That the important thing here. Are the sentiments on display real and held by most of the people. Or are they faked up by the Trump group to gin up support and rationale for their proposal

Theres a substantial policy position at stake here. Not just pointless finger pointing about politicians being disingenuous.

For the sake of argument, let's say this is "faked up" to gain support. Who are they trying to fool? Greenlanders? Americans? Danes? The Chinese? Also for the sake of argument, let's assume we're talking about adults and not 4 year olds.

 

[durangodawood]

For the sake of argument, let's say this is "faked up" to gain support. Who are they trying to fool? Greenlanders? Americans? Danes? The Chinese? Also for the sake of argument, let's assume we're talking about adults and not 4 year olds.

Americans. So were are talking about 4 year olds, basically. They still believe in Santa Claus politically.

 

[Chesterton]

Yes Virginia Durangodawood...

 

[iluvatar5150]

And that's what most of these threads that pop up are. Since their 2024 defeat, I don't know that I've seen a single thread started by a democrat asking the question "What can we do better in 2028?", they've all just been the same old "Look at this bad thing that happened in Maga-sphere today!" type threads, or the even less effective "attribute motives of isms and phobias to why those other people voted for him"

Where have you been looking? Here on CF? Sure, there aren't a lot of those kinds of threads here for a few reasons:

1.) There just aren't a lot of American Democrats here and these sorts of discussions need a critical mass of people and knowledge in order to be worth having. And the commentary from the right on this board is... lacking.
2.) Nobody's really sure what the answer/solution is, because the shift towards the authoritarian right is much larger than Trump.
3.) At least for me, a lot of those arguments are just rehashes of the same things we've been talking about for 8+ years and are largely out of our hands.

If you're claiming that these discussions aren't happening elsewhere, then idk what to tell you except that you're just not looking in the right places. It's all over reddit as well as NYT, WaPo, The Atlantic, Vox, etc. to the point where I've kind of tuned it out the last couple years, because it became obvious to me that people were just speculating and didn't have much of a handle on what was really going on.

ETA: I think there probably is something to the notion that a lot of this is a backlash against the "professional managerial class", but supposing that's correct, what am I supposed to do about it? Not act like a decent person in professional settings and treat my trans co-workers (of which there are several) like trash? Hand out participation trophies to and be accepting of all the MAGAdonians who want to act like boors? Fact-check all the right-wing propagandists who blow this stuff out of proportion? Or just go about my day and do my job?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

If you're claiming that these discussions aren't happening elsewhere, then idk what to tell you except that you're just not looking in the right places. It's all over reddit as well as NYT, WaPo, The Atlantic, Vox, etc.

I've seen some of those pieces, but in all honesty, many appear to be half-[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] in my opinion as they'll allude to certain broader sentiments but still keep certain ideologically entrenched positions well-guarded and refuse to acknowledge them as part of the problem.


Take for instance this one:

Three lessons Democrats need to learn from this defeat

Donald Trump was able to retain and expand the coaltion that elected him in 2016, many of whom traditionally voted Democratic.

www.newsweek.com

Their 3 takeaways for why Kamala lost:
1) They need to reconnect with the working class on an economic level
2) They need change-up their digital strategy
3) They need to win back some of the Latinos

Do they really think those 3 things are the "big ones" with regards to why they lost?

Vox initially did some more self-critiquing write ups, but then partially walked it back afterwards with pieces like this:

Do Democrats need to moderate to win — or would that be a terrible mistake?

A conversation with Osita Nwanevu.

www.vox.com

I would disagree with some of the sentiments in this article. It's not that moderation is a losing formula, it's that feigned and phony moderation is a losing formula (as you de-energize a portion of your own base, but don't actually convince anyone new to come aboard)

If their idea of "moderation" is "Well, she picked a VP running mate that said he likes to hunt, and they pivoted a little on immigration in the last 2 months, what more can you do?", then they have a very different view of "moderation" than many of us have.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I've seen some of those pieces, but in all honesty, many appear to be half-[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] in my opinion as they'll allude to certain broader sentiments but still keep certain ideologically entrenched positions well-guarded and refuse to acknowledge them as part of the problem.

Yeah, each faction in the party is, and has been for ages, claiming that their group is right and if only the other ones would get on board, they could win. Bernie Bro's, for example, have been shouting this for 8 years.

No, these pieces aren't good and haven't landed on any solid answers that I've seen. But that hasn't stopped people from writing them.

 

[rambot]

I guess bribing homeless people with food is about as shmarmy as cleaning up waste at the side of the road for 15 minutes.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Yeah, each faction in the party is, and has been for ages, claiming that their group is right and if only the other ones would get on board, they could win. Bernie Bro's, for example, have been shouting this for 8 years.

No, these pieces aren't good and haven't landed on any solid answers that I've seen. But that hasn't stopped people from writing them.

That's where they miss the forest for the trees.

It's not their own "sub factions" they need to win over. (it's not as if all of the progressive democrats will vote republican if they go with a center-left democrat...or vice versa)

Elections are won and lost (in most cases) by whoever can make the best appeal to the independents (and perhaps skim some people from the other team)

They're trying to play an intramural game against each other, when what they really need to doing is prepping for that big "away game" that happens in PA, Michigan, Arizona, and Nevada every 4 years.


I understand they were under some unique time constraints this last time around, but it goes to highlight the value of primaries in certain states and why holding a proper primary is more advantageous than simply "anointing" someone to take the baton.