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Science (observations in nature) - supports creation not evolution. So does the Bible

Diamond72

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visualizing what a “flatman” living in two dimensions would see
I ordered some christmas decoration and when they got here they were just flat pieces of paper. NOT three dimensional at all. The photo make then look so good. It is amazing the way our eyes work like that.

The unconscious computation our brain performs to provide us with a seamless three-dimensional view of the world is truly remarkable and a testament to the complexity of our neural processing capabilities.

Very few people could do in their conscious mind what everyone does in their unconscious.
 
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DennisF

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I have some knowledge of Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity and your explanation is accurate and interesting. The atomic clock studies are fascinating. We were actually doing four- dimensional math with time as the “fifth dimension.” Our teacher was probably inspired by “Flatland” by Abbot, because we started by visualizing what a “flatman” living in two dimensions would see as a sphere passed through his world. We were using matrix geometry. My knowledge of the subject mostly passed out of my brain when I handed in my exam. I understand that people have applied Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity to higher numbers of dimensions, and it has inspired much science fiction and the multiverse theory.

I think you are absolutely correct about both the spiritual beings and ETs, as related to the Bible. Do you think they are the same things or two different types of beings?
I believe that what I wrote already answers that question: that "ET" is the in-vogue label to apply to higher beings, which, because they are higher or more advanced than we are, are by definition spiritual beings. Whenever in scripture the word spiritual appears it always involves some higher intelligence or being than ordinary humanity.
 
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DennisF

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I ordered some christmas decoration and when they got here they were just flat pieces of paper. NOT three dimensional at all. The photo make then look so good. It is amazing the way our eyes work like that.

The unconscious computation our brain performs to provide us with a seamless three-dimensional view of the world is truly remarkable and a testament to the complexity of our neural processing capabilities.

Very few people could do in their conscious mind what everyone does in their unconscious.
And this is exactly why the field of machine vision has been so difficult: the reconstruction from a 2D image to a 3D world.
 
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Jerry N.

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I believe that what I wrote already answers that question: that "ET" is the in-vogue label to apply to higher beings, which, because they are higher or more advanced than we are, are by definition spiritual beings. Whenever in scripture the word spiritual appears it always involves some higher intelligence or being than ordinary humanity.
Thank you for your reply. My thought was that they might be higher beings in that they occupy one higher dimension like angels or spiritual beings we haven’t heard of. Looking at the diversity of life on earth, I suspect there is a similar diversity in the spiritual realm. Whatever UFOs are, they don’t seem to be particularly horrible but not very good. Traveling beyond the speed of light seems impossible for a creature that is 3D plus time. The other thing is that there doesn’t seem to be much sense in coming across the galaxy to fly around and maybe killing some cows. One more thing is the lights. If they are from another planet or another dimension there is no reason for them to follow aviation safety. What are the lights for? The only possibility is that emitting light is beyond their control, which might make sense for spirits but not mechanical objects made by intelligent beings. I doubt that they would want to be seen. These are just musings for discussion, because you add intelligent insight to all of the posts I have read from you.
 
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DennisF

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Thank you for your reply. My thought was that they might be higher beings in that they occupy one higher dimension like angels or spiritual beings we haven’t heard of. Looking at the diversity of life on earth, I suspect there is a similar diversity in the spiritual realm. Whatever UFOs are, they don’t seem to be particularly horrible but not very good. Traveling beyond the speed of light seems impossible for a creature that is 3D plus time. The other thing is that there doesn’t seem to be much sense in coming across the galaxy to fly around and maybe killing some cows. One more thing is the lights. If they are from another planet or another dimension there is no reason for them to follow aviation safety. What are the lights for? The only possibility is that emitting light is beyond their control, which might make sense for spirits but not mechanical objects made by intelligent beings. I doubt that they would want to be seen. These are just musings for discussion, because you add intelligent insight to all of the posts I have read from you.
As I see it, I leave "higher dimension" language to the New Age mystics who, when asked to explain their mystical use of language cannot. The word "dimension" has an ordinary meaning in popular life and even in physics has a rather precise use, but among non-physicists is an escape route for a lack of any explanation. Thus, any being, whether created as an angel or a god or a seraph, is subject to the same physical laws God holds faithfully in place as they do for us lowly humans. This applies even to Jesus, before and after the resurrection. Satan tempted him to throw himself off a high place; the temptation would have been meaningless had physics not applied; after he was brought back to life as an enhanced human prototype of what we will be, he ascended to space (heaven) in a craft to convey him; "he was taken up" Luke says. The observers stood at a distance when he left. What took him up is not described.

Steven Greer of the Discovery project explains that he is fairly sure (and he is positioned well to know) the abductions and cattle mutilations are of human origin with craft developed from reverse-engineered crashed ET craft.

The word spirit in scripture literally means "breath". I take that to mean the systemic property of organisms that make them alive. In the OT, even animals have spirits, yet all of the beings to which "spirits" are attributed are physical beings. Ghosts we are presented with show up in the pagan worldview with the inference that they are non-physical yet are capable of interacting with matter. What becomes intriguing is that some UFOlogy (or is it now UAPology?) investigators believe that the short grays are somewhere between organic and biomechanical. At some point, the distinction between organic beings and biological robots becomes blurred.
 
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Jerry N.

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As I see it, I leave "higher dimension" language to the New Age mystics who, when asked to explain their mystical use of language cannot. The word "dimension" has an ordinary meaning in popular life and even in physics has a rather precise use, but among non-physicists is an escape route for a lack of any explanation. Thus, any being, whether created as an angel or a god or a seraph, is subject to the same physical laws God holds faithfully in place as they do for us lowly humans. This applies even to Jesus, before and after the resurrection. Satan tempted him to throw himself off a high place; the temptation would have been meaningless had physics not applied; after he was brought back to life as an enhanced human prototype of what we will be, he ascended to space (heaven) in a craft to convey him; "he was taken up" Luke says. The observers stood at a distance when he left. What took him up is not described.

Steven Greer of the Discovery project explains that he is fairly sure (and he is positioned well to know) the abductions and cattle mutilations are of human origin with craft developed from reverse-engineered crashed ET craft.

The word spirit in scripture literally means "breath". I take that to mean the systemic property of organisms that make them alive. In the OT, even animals have spirits, yet all of the beings to which "spirits" are attributed are physical beings. Ghosts we are presented with show up in the pagan worldview with the inference that they are non-physical yet are capable of interacting with matter. What becomes intriguing is that some UFOlogy (or is it now UAPology?) investigators believe that the short grays are somewhere between organic and biomechanical. At some point, the distinction between organic beings and biological robots becomes blurred.
It seems reasonable, but, as I wrote about before, a 4D creature plus time could do things we can’t do without actually defying the laws of physics.

I don’t have positive views on Steven Greer, but I agree that the cattle mutilations are probably done by people.

Ghosts would explain the glowing orbs as seen in graveyards and the like. My wife and I actually saw ghosts or something. I saw two women, but my wife saw snakes of light like sparklers in the dark. I think we sense that something is there, and our mind creates images to make sense of it. Maybe ghost wake up and move around like with Samuel, but most ghost are something else.

One of the explanations I’ve read about grays is that they are, as you wrote, somewhere between organic and biomechanical robots and are controlled by demons. I don’t know about that, but demons in machines is not a new idea. Jokingly, my computer acts that way sometimes. Although I don’t have strong opinions about these things, I doubt whatever people are seeing is from another planet. People are seeing something, and it is scary and interesting. There is probably life out there somewhere, but I don’t think they come and visit us. Therefore, I am wondering and speculating about what people are actually seeing.

There is also the theory of Sky Fish. These are creatures like protozoa that live in the atmosphere, but they fly around and are very big and lack density. It is a wild idea, but they make as much sense as some of the other ideas.
 
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Diamond72

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And this is exactly why the field of machine vision has been so difficult: the reconstruction from a 2D image to a 3D world.
That is what I did for a living. People would draw pretty pictures and hand them to me and say here build this. Sometimes I could not find the math to build their pretty picture. Sometimes in the middle of building something they would tell me to start all over again because what I was doing did not match the picture they had in their head.

Which actually is a golden key. First people imagine something and then they build it or produce it in the real world. The law of attraction talks about how we manifest things.

I remember building a Pagoda for a production of the King and I. They wanted me to build it out of fiberglass. I really did not want to spend my life on the road or I would be working for people like Taylor Swift today. I actually studied lighting for theater in college.
 
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Jerry N.

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That is what I did for a living. People would draw pretty pictures and hand them to me and say here build this. Sometimes I could not find the math to build their pretty picture. Sometimes in the middle of building something they would tell me to start all over again because what I was doing did not match the picture they had in their head.

Which actually is a golden key. First people imagine something and then they build it or produce it in the real world. The law of attraction talks about how we manifest things.

I remember building a Pagoda for a production of the King and I. They wanted me to build it out of fiberglass. I really did not want to spend my life on the road or I would be working for people like Taylor Swift today. I actually studied lighting for theater in college.
Airplane design is fascinating. Some time ago, I made a model of an X65 with a 9 cm wingspan. Nobody outside the military is sure what the plane looks like, but there is an artist rendition in perspective. It took me about a week to convert the perspective image into a design drawing with the proper proportions. The model did not meet my expectations, but I’ll try again when the proper dimensions are published. The dimensions given in the article I used were obviously wrong. Seeing how hard it is to take a 2D image and make it 3D should show how hard a 4D image is to project in 3D.
 
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Diamond72

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Airplane design is fascinating.
My grandparents were living in Dayton when the Wright brothers flew the first plane. Others were trying to fly but the Wright brothers came up with the RIGHT formula or the right math. That just shows how exact and precise God is. I think I remember John Denver died trying to fly and experimental plane. Clearly the math was not as exact and precise as it needed to me. He was a wonderful singer and sang about how beautiful the rocky mountains are. Denver’s death was attributed to fuel mismanagement, which led to the engine failure of his experimental aircraft. This highlights how critical attention to detail and understanding of all aspects of flight can be. I still remember his song: Rocky mountain high. We still debate on this board how the sea shells got to the top of the mountains :)

I use to harrass my son back when he was looking for work in college. There was a bad computer program on a sensor of the wings and planes were crashing at first because the pilot did not know how to turn it off and disable it. It is just a two or three dollar sensor. He takes his work serious though. He was working on climate control for Wolfspeed and someone on his team made a mistake and shut the factory down. They were more than made because they had to throw everything away and start all over again that that cost them a million dollars.

If God is anything, this universe is very exact and very precise even as big as it is. I think He is very exact and very precise with time, but most people think He is a sloppy joe when it comes to the time clock. They just want to clock in and clock out when they are in the mood to do it.
 
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Jerry N.

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My grandparents were living in Dayton when the Wright brothers flew the first plane. Others were trying to fly but the Wright brothers came up with the RIGHT formula or the right math. That just shows how exact and precise God is. I think I remember John Denver died trying to fly and experimental plane. Clearly the math was not as exact and precise as it needed to me. He was a wonderful singer and sang about how beautiful the rocky mountains are. Denver’s death was attributed to fuel mismanagement, which led to the engine failure of his experimental aircraft. This highlights how critical attention to detail and understanding of all aspects of flight can be. I still remember his song: Rocky mountain high. We still debate on this board how the sea shells got to the top of the mountains :)

I use to harrass my son back when he was looking for work in college. There was a bad computer program on a sensor of the wings and planes were crashing at first because the pilot did not know how to turn it off and disable it. It is just a two or three dollar sensor. He takes his work serious though. He was working on climate control for Wolfspeed and someone on his team made a mistake and shut the factory down. They were more than made because they had to throw everything away and start all over again that that cost them a million dollars.

If God is anything, this universe is very exact and very precise even as big as it is. I think He is very exact and very precise with time, but most people think He is a sloppy joe when it comes to the time clock. They just want to clock in and clock out when they are in the mood to do it.
Thank you for the nice post. One of my best memories is sitting around a campfire with friends singing John Denver songs.

God’s precision is amazing. You probably know that there are a dozen very important constants in physics. If they were different by even a very small factor, we wouldn’t be here.

It is amazing that very small things can have huge consequences.
 
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Diamond72

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God’s precision is amazing. You probably know that there are a dozen very important constants in physics. If they were different by even a very small factor, we wouldn’t be here.
Yes, I have heard that. I know that is how exact and precise God's Justice is. Yet people try to accuse God of not being just.
 
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Jerry N.

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Yes, I have heard that. I know that is how exact and precise God's Justice is. Yet people try to accuse God of not being just.
The people I have the most sympathy for are those who lost children or loved ones. When they say God is not just, it is hard to find the right words. Everybody should study Descartes's philosophy. Even though he concluded that God is good, he made it clear that God is God whether we agree with Him or not. Even looking at His creation, we can see that His ways are far beyond what we can comprehend.
 
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Diamond72

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Even looking at His creation, we can see that His ways are far beyond what we can comprehend.
He gives us wisdom, knowledge and understanding so we can know what He has done and give Him praise, honor and glory. In fact NOTHING is better than worship of God with our brothers and sisters in the Lord.

Worship is often seen as a profound way to connect with the divine and foster a sense of unity with God.
 
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Jerry N.

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He gives us wisdom, knowledge and understanding so we can know what He has done and give Him praise, honor and glory. In fact NOTHING is better than worship of God with our brothers and sisters in the Lord.

Worship is often seen as a profound way to connect with the divine and foster a sense of unity with God.
I agree.
 
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roman2819

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The Bible Makes Accurate Scientific Statements

In our world today, science has made great advancement, and technology is just an extension of our lives. However, when the Hebrew Scriptures or Tanakh was written, engineering existed only at the most basic level. But embedded in God’s Word are geographical facts and scientific predictions which have turned out to be accurate.

The Bible is not a book of science but when it makes scientific statements on several occasions, it is surprisingly accurate. For instance, the Scriptures predicted that the earth was round even before science confirmed it. “He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy and spreads them out like a tent to live in [Isaiah 40:22]; the word “circle” implies that the earth is round. The prophet Isaiah said this about 700 BC. At that time, people believed that the earth was flat, or they would fall off the surface into space if it was round; back then, no one understood gravity, and sailors were afraid to reach the edge of the sea. In 340 BC, the famous Greek thinker Aristotle wrote a book, On the Heavens, where he gave reasons to support the theory that the earth was shaped like a sphere. Later, more evidence would confirm it. In the twentieth century, aerial photographs showed the earth to be round, but the Bible had said it well ahead of time.

The Scriptures also say the earth is suspended upon nothing. “He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing” [Job 26:7]. In those days, people had little or no clues about the universe. The Greeks believed that the earth was held in space by one of their gods, Atlas. Gradually, thinkers like Ptolemy, Copernicus and Galileo asserted that the earth, like the other planets, might be suspended upon nothing. Science would confirm this later, but not before the Bible had said it much earlier.

The Word of God has been consistently correct on numerous occasions, not just a couple of times. The Lord told Abraham that his descendants would be as many as the number of stars in the sky, if indeed he can count them [Genesis 15:5]. Early astronomers used to believe that they can count the stars, but later, they realized that there are billions of them in the galaxies – beyond our ability to even give a close estimate.

When God created the earth, He said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear” [Genesis 1:9]. It means that at the beginning, the land mass was together. Today, there is geological evidence to substantiate this theory: Same kinds of plants and animal fossils on different continents show that they used to exist on the same land. Geologists or scientists believe that only one supercontinent used to exist, which later became separated into the land masses that we see today. Now, on the map, we can observe that the eastern coastlines of the Americas run almost parallel to the western shores of Europe and Africa. Did they used to be joined together but became separated later? Due to lack of clear evidence, science cannot prove that the “continental drift” happened. Science bases its assertions on what it can see or quantify, and it does not confirm or deny something that has not been proven yet. However, lack of evidence does not mean that it did not happen. And we know that many things from the past cannot be proven, whether they occurred five days or 5,000 years ago. However, with a reasonable and consistent trail of evidence, we can believe or reconstruct how some events or situations take place.

The Bible provides clues about how the supercontinent was broken up by the flood. During Noah’s time, the waters poured out from the deep of the earth and the floodgates of heavens opened, upon which the earth became submerged. After the water had covered the earth for about a hundred and twenty days, God altered the terrain of the earth. He broke up the supercontinent and oceans were formed as water filled the void between the lands. He created valleys and gorges, and the water flowed into these channels.

You covered it with the deep as with a garment; the waters stood above the mountains. But at your rebuke the waters fled, at the sound
of your thunder they took to flight; they flowed over the mountains, they went down into the valleys, to the place you assigned for them.
You set a boundary they cannot cross; never again will they cover the earth. ~ Psalm 104:6-9 ~

“Do you send the lightning bolts on their way? Do they report to you, ‘Here we are’?” [Job 38:35]. When the Bible was written, the word “electricity” did not exist, obviously, and “lightning” referred to raw electric power from nature. Several millenniums later, scientists would be able to harness electricity for use in lighting, telephones and many other ways that we see today. Now, we are indeed using electricity to speak and send messages and images over telephones, mobile phones, radios, televisions, computers, satellites and other communication equipment. In Job’s time, when lighting was provided by fire, no one would dream of using electricity, let alone run away from streaks of lightning. And the telephone was invented more than two millenniums later in 1876, but the Bible alluded to it well ahead of time. Of course, Job did not know about electricity, and he would not be thinking about telephones, televisions and sophisticated instruments. However, inspired by God, he spoke about a technology that will materialize far beyond his time. Today, satellites send messages across the galaxy and spacecraft transmit images from Mars back to earth. We use mobile phones to communicate daily. Job’s words were more than just a scientific prediction; he was speaking about a way of life. Some argue that the Scriptures may be figurative about science and technology, but whether literal or otherwise, the Book has been consistently correct in many claims.



Some people feel that it is a choice between science or God, but not both; that if they believe in science, then they have to reject His existence. The truth is science does not confirm or deny the existence of a Creator. Faith cannot be proven in an empirical manner. And there are scientists who believe that without a Designer, it would have been mathematically impossible for the vast diversities of life on earth to have happened all by themselves.

It is always possible to think of reasons to be critical of the Scriptures. But the fact is there are sufficient or even strong reasons to believe that it is inspired by God, if we do not deliberately choose to ignore the history and scientific facts that it contains. The Bible also spoke of prophecies that have come to pass, which we will consider soon.

Adapted from "Understanding Prayer, Faith & God's Will: Compass for Christian Faith"
 
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DennisF

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The Bible Makes Accurate Scientific Statements
A few comments in response -
In our world today, science has made great advancement, and technology is just an extension of our lives. However, when the Hebrew Scriptures or Tanakh was written, engineering existed only at the most basic level.
Yes and no. The Great Pyramid stands as testimony to a feat not achievable today by civil engineering.
But embedded in God’s Word are geographical facts and scientific predictions which have turned out to be accurate.

The Bible is not a book of science but when it makes scientific statements on several occasions, it is surprisingly accurate.
I agree that it is important to note that the Bible does not present itself as God's science book and will assume whatever scientific understanding existed in the culture at the time of the writing. For instance, in the Old Testament it is assumed that only the father contributed genetically to descendants while by the time of the NT, it was known that both father and mother contribute to the genetics of children.
For instance, the Scriptures predicted that the earth was round even before science confirmed it. “He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy and spreads them out like a tent to live in [Isaiah 40:22]; the word “circle” implies that the earth is round. The prophet Isaiah said this about 700 BC. At that time, people believed that the earth was flat, or they would fall off the surface into space if it was round;
This is false and is a modern myth widely believed nowadays even by scientists. It was propagated by Bible-bashers such as American author Washington Irving, and later by Ivy League professors John Draper and Andrew White. Jeffrey Burton Russell rebuts this myth in his book Inventing the Flat Earth.
back then, no one understood gravity, and sailors were afraid to reach the edge of the sea. In 340 BC, the famous Greek thinker Aristotle wrote a book, On the Heavens, where he gave reasons to support the theory that the earth was shaped like a sphere. Later, more evidence would confirm it. In the twentieth century, aerial photographs showed the earth to be round, but the Bible had said it well ahead of time.
Russell found only two obscure Greek philosophers in the ancient world who believed the earth was flat. It was commonly believed since ancient times that the earth was a globe.
The Scriptures also say the earth is suspended upon nothing. “He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing” [Job 26:7]. In those days, people had little or no clues about the universe. The Greeks believed that the earth was held in space by one of their gods, Atlas. Gradually, thinkers like Ptolemy, Copernicus and Galileo asserted that the earth, like the other planets, might be suspended upon nothing. Science would confirm this later, but not before the Bible had said it much earlier.
Actually, it is not "suspended on nothing" but is kept where it is by gravitational fields, which of themselves are not "nothing". But to suppose that some other mass holds it "up" is of course nonsense that the scripture denies, and that would likely have been the alternative in the thinking of Job's time (3rd mil. BC?)
The Word of God has been consistently correct on numerous occasions, not just a couple of times. The Lord told Abraham that his descendants would be as many as the number of stars in the sky, if indeed he can count them [Genesis 15:5]. Early astronomers used to believe that they can count the stars, but later, they realized that there are billions of them in the galaxies – beyond our ability to even give a close estimate.
Same for the sands of the sea - in other words, his descendants would be a major population group on earth. They certainly aren't "the Jews" as such. The critical question is what happened to Greater Israel after the Assyrian deportations. Most of them subsequently migrated west to become the Europeans. For more detail, see my Eschatology Note # 2.
When God created the earth, He said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear” [Genesis 1:9]. It means that at the beginning, the land mass was together. Today, there is geological evidence to substantiate this theory: Same kinds of plants and animal fossils on different continents show that they used to exist on the same land. Geologists or scientists believe that only one supercontinent used to exist, which later became separated into the land masses that we see today. Now, on the map, we can observe that the eastern coastlines of the Americas run almost parallel to the western shores of Europe and Africa. Did they used to be joined together but became separated later? Due to lack of clear evidence, science cannot prove that the “continental drift” happened. Science bases its assertions on what it can see or quantify, and it does not confirm or deny something that has not been proven yet. However, lack of evidence does not mean that it did not happen. And we know that many things from the past cannot be proven, whether they occurred five days or 5,000 years ago. However, with a reasonable and consistent trail of evidence, we can believe or reconstruct how some events or situations take place.
The geologic strata of the east coast of South America and the west coast of Africa correspond - another evidence of continental separation. Continental drift has been observed in the present time by satellite observations.
The Bible provides clues about how the supercontinent was broken up by the flood. During Noah’s time, the waters poured out from the deep of the earth and the floodgates of heavens opened, upon which the earth became submerged. After the water had covered the earth for about a hundred and twenty days, God altered the terrain of the earth. He broke up the supercontinent and oceans were formed as water filled the void between the lands. He created valleys and gorges, and the water flowed into these channels.
Unlikely - too much geological evidence against young-earth geology.
You covered it with the deep as with a garment; the waters stood above the mountains. But at your rebuke the waters fled, at the sound
of your thunder they took to flight; they flowed over the mountains, they went down into the valleys, to the place you assigned for them.
You set a boundary they cannot cross; never again will they cover the earth. ~ Psalm 104:6-9 ~
The geographic scope of this text is not given and need not necessarily be evidence for a young-earth geological interpretation.
“Do you send the lightning bolts on their way? Do they report to you, ‘Here we are’?” [Job 38:35]. When the Bible was written, the word “electricity” did not exist, obviously, and “lightning” referred to raw electric power from nature. Several millenniums later, scientists would be able to harness electricity for use in lighting, telephones and many other ways that we see today. Now, we are indeed using electricity to speak and send messages and images over telephones, mobile phones, radios, televisions, computers, satellites and other communication equipment. In Job’s time, when lighting was provided by fire, no one would dream of using electricity, let alone run away from streaks of lightning. And the telephone was invented more than two millenniums later in 1876, but the Bible alluded to it well ahead of time. Of course, Job did not know about electricity, and he would not be thinking about telephones, televisions and sophisticated instruments. However, inspired by God, he spoke about a technology that will materialize far beyond his time. Today, satellites send messages across the galaxy and spacecraft transmit images from Mars back to earth. We use mobile phones to communicate daily. Job’s words were more than just a scientific prediction; he was speaking about a way of life. Some argue that the Scriptures may be figurative about science and technology, but whether literal or otherwise, the Book has been consistently correct in many claims.
It is important not to read into scripture what might be known today. This is a common hermeneutical mistake made in our time.
Some people feel that it is a choice between science or God, but not both; that if they believe in science, then they have to reject His existence. The truth is science does not confirm or deny the existence of a Creator. Faith cannot be proven in an empirical manner. And there are scientists who believe that without a Designer, it would have been mathematically impossible for the vast diversities of life on earth to have happened all by themselves.
Werner Von Braun put it well when he said regarding the existence of God: Must we light a candle to see the sun? As the early Christians put it, we cannot see the sun directly (too bright) but everything we see can be seen because it illuminates it.
It is always possible to think of reasons to be critical of the Scriptures. But the fact is there are sufficient or even strong reasons to believe that it is inspired by God, if we do not deliberately choose to ignore the history and scientific facts that it contains. The Bible also spoke of prophecies that have come to pass, which we will consider soon.
The Bible sets out to give us the thread of human history that is central to the origin and destiny of humanity, and that history has held up very well despite the foundation of Western history since the Middle Ages having been rooted in the Graeco-Roman writings and not in both biblical history and the subsequent findings of Ancient Near East archaeology.
 
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roman2819

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The Bible of course points to a 7 day creation week in Gen 2:1-3
And confirms the literal day timeline for that week in Ex 20:11 legal code. (Details given here #51)

It states that an infinite Creator, with unlimited capability, power, wisdom etc is the source, the cause of all life on Earth created in the same seven day time span that is the context for Exodus 20 and it's legal code.

James Barr points out that the Bible's record, historic account - was accepted as such when written and that the people at Sinai were not darwinists nor was the writer of Genesis and Exodus a Darwinist. Genesis was not an early exercise in "Teaching darwinism" and the scholars in OT studies and in Hebrew language - in all world class universities are pretty much in agreement on that point according to James Barr even though they don't actually believe that what the Bible is saying is accurate ... they at least admit to what it says.

No wonder they come to that conclusion given the details

1. The newly freed slaves at Sinai could not be "expected" to read darwinism "into the text"
2. The narrative about no manna falling on the exact 7th day each week for 40 years - does not argue against "the exact 7th day detail" in the text.
3. The death sentence for one who ignored the exact 7th day detail in Ex 16 -- does not argue against "The exact 7th day detail" in the text
4. Those "reading the text" could be so easily mislead into following those details
5. Moses was not a "darwinist" by any stretch of the imagination and could not have been trying to smuggle darwinism into the text.
6. The "legal code of Exodus 20:11" in the so-called "Law of Moses" is the highest form of that code and highlights the "exact 7th day detail" in its content.

We should "expect" that a very hollow and non-substantive response to that point - would ignore the details.

which gets commented on .. here #71 (for example)

The twenty-four day day is only created on the fourth 'day'. Each of the 6 days of creation is not literally 24-hour, but instead, the word 'day' refers to a stage or phase or passage of time.

The Bible gives a brief summary of how the twenty-four hour day was created on the fourth day (or stage). As God planned to set lights in the sky [Genesis 1:14-15], He “made two great lights—the greater light (sun) to govern the day and the lesser light (moon) to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness" [Genesis 1:16-17].

As He went on to “set them (the sun, moon and stars) in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness” [Genesis 1:18], God constructed the day and night as we know it. For the first time in the creation process, the day and night as we know were formed – which is different from the day and night on the first day of creation, when the sun, moon and stars were not yet in place. Our definition of a twenty-four hour day was made on the fourth stage. It means the other same word, day (1 to 6) is not literally 24-hours. When reading the Scriptures, don't just see the words literally, figure out the context.

Genesis 1:14-18 describe how God made the 24-hour day on the 4th day (the 4th stage of the creation process). I don't see how it can be clearer than that.

Why did the Bible use the word 'day'? This word fits the prose of writing in religious manuscript. It means stage or a passage of time.

-- Adapted from 'Understanding Prayer, Faith and God's will: Compass for Christian Faith"
 
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BobRyan

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The twenty-four day day is only created on the fourth 'day'. Each of the 6 days of creation is not literally 24-hour, but instead, the word 'day' refers to a stage or phase or passage of time.
You are talking about the rotation of the planet and claiming that it was not rotating at the same speed on day 3 as on day 4. Not only do Christians who take the Bible literally in Gen 1 have a problem with that - so do scientists.

It is the same rotating planet in all cases on all days.
IT is the same "evening and morning" two-part content for each day.

Day 1 - you have light and also "evening and morning" - that means -- as we all know -- a rotating planet.

To insert into the text that the planet rotated at different speeds on day 3 vs day 4 - is borrowing a problem to insert into the text.s


2 And the earth was a formless and desolate emptiness, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.” And there was evening and there was morning, one day.


6 Then God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 God made the expanse, and separated the waters that were below the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse; and it was so. 8 God called the expanse “heaven.” And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.


9 Then God said, “Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land “earth,” and the gathering of the waters He called “seas”; and God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit according to their kind with seed in them”; and it was so. 12 The earth produced vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, according to their kind; and God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, a third day.

A million years for day 3 without any sun -- is not a science-affirming idea - but a 24 hour day - a single rotation. Where there is light for 12 hours (no matter the source|) -- and then night for 12 hours... does not present a science-challenge for plants and does not present a text challenge since it is consistent with the Gen 1-2:3 account as well as the Ex 20:11 summary of it.

14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and they shall serve as signs and for seasons, and for days and years; 15 and they shall serve as lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

I see no incentive to insert new problems to be solved into the text.

"day" is "yom" in every case in Gen 1 - not just for day 4. In Ex 20:8-11 "for in six days the Lord made" -- day is still "yom" and applies to all the working days of the 7 day week.
 
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BobRyan

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BobRyan said:

"rocks have never been observed to produce a living organism, or DNA "
Overall, the main difference between a rock and fertile soil is the ability of the soil to provide a supportive environment for plant growth, while a rock does not have this capability.
Indeed neither of them produce DNA.
changes or variations in the DNA sequence can be inherited by offspring,
true - everyone agrees with that -but that will never get you from rocks to DNA nor from sterile dirt to DNA.

No science observation at all challenges that observed fact.
 
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BobRyan

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You raised an interesting point: "the concept that God created everything means everything. That includes spacetime itself and everything in it." If you are taking this from Genesis1:1, it actually says that the elohim (gods - Hebrew male plural) created (bara) the skies (shamayim) and land (eretz). The word of interest is shamayim, which can also mean whatever one sees looking into the skies, including at night. The question I raise is: What is the scope of Gen. 1:1? In recent times, it has been assumed that it includes the modern cosmological model of the universe, but that is not what Gen. 1:1 says. I have been thinking about this. The Gen. 1 account includes sun, moon and "stars". Stars (kowkob in Hebrew) are any bright points of light in the sky and include not only the visible stars but also planets, asteroids, etc. that we make a distinction about. So, what I am raising is the question of the scope of creation. It might be that the creation of what we call the universe has yet to be revealed to us, that the creation account has not yet been completed.
Gen 1:1 makes God the creator of the entire universe in its broadest sense - but the chapter only gives a timeline, a time-boxed chronological sequence, for the formatting of Earth for life, all life on Earth, the creation of our sun and moon.
 
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