‘Murdered In His Own Home’: Kentucky Cops Raid Wrong Home and Kill Innocent Man Over Alleged Stolen Weed Eater

[Pommer]

Why? Are you not allowed to defend yourself when someone points a gun at you? In these cases it doea depend on what the police were doing when they entered the house. Where they yelling that they were police. Where they yelling they were the police and saying they had a search warrant? Maybe they shoild be charged with homicide if they just kicked in rhe guys door and rushed in without announcing who they were or what they were doing. If they didnt announce and advise then the owner would have a right to point a gun and they should be charged with homicide depending on circumstances. But if they had POLICE on their uniforms and were announcing then no.

It also seems that there is a question on Whether of not they had a search warrant.

They had a search warrant for another address. And were repeatedly told the correct address over the radio, but for some reason, they decided to loudly announce their presence over to the victim‘s home and then had to shoot him dead because he was old and confused and didn’t seem to understand that the police were there to “protect him”.

 

[Pommer]

What?

Deep cover satirist

 

[Pommer]

Just a bit more on this..

The cops stopped using body cameras back in 2023..

London, Ky. Police Dept. suspended use of body cameras

WKYT continues to follow a deadly police shooting involving the London Police Department.

www.wkyt.com

The article above and this one..

https://www.kentucky.com/news/state/kentucky/article297928768.html

Go into some more detail and contain one very sad fact and one interesting fact..



They already had the guy that stole the weed eater in custody at the time of the raid.

So why all the fuss and a midnight raid over a weed-eater if they already had the guy to who stole it? Much less a raid that they conducted outside their jurisdiction? I wonder if it was because they were stolen from a judge's house?


Has anyone here had anything stolen? Did the cops conduct a midnight raid outside their jurisdiction to get it back? In my case the answers would be "yes" and "No, they really didn't seem to care." But, I'm not a judge either..

Aiming to scratch a judge’s back and ending up killing a citizen, sounds rather bizarre, but that’s what it appears to suggest.

 

[Pommer]

If they had no warrant then it's absolutely homicide in my opinion. There is no excuse.

…
I hate to be pedantic, but whether or not the police were somehow in error in this case, it’s a homicide.

 

[Pommer]

Police officers can be sued individually apart from the department if they are negligent

Can You Amend A Police Report After A Car Accident?

Can you amend a police report after a car accident, if there are inaccuracies? We’ll explain the steps you can take and how Spar & Bernstein can help.

www.lawsb.com

Once qualified-immunity is litigated out of the way, yes.

 

[Pommer]

Its not. If no one is telling him they are rhe police then he has a right to grab a gun. That's why every thing has to be in place. Verbal announcements as well as full police gear.

Remember, the constabulary had a warrant, (for a neighboring abode, to search, identify and seize, property.
Did the cops think the deceased gentleman held a key to the residence they weren’t raiding?

 

[BPPLEE]

Once qualified-immunity is litigated out of the way, yes.

Qualified immunity does not cover negligence and only covers civil cases, it does not apply to criminal charges.
I paid to be a member of the PBA when I was in law enforcement to provide legal representation in case I was sued.

Qualified immunity is a legal doctrine that protects police officers and other government officials from personal liability for constitutional violations:

• When it applies
  Qualified immunity applies when a government official's actions don't violate a "clearly established" constitutional right. This means that a reasonable official in the same position would have known that their actions were unlawful.
  
  
• When it doesn't apply
  If qualified immunity doesn't apply, the government employee or official is technically responsible for money damages, but the government entity usually pays.
  
  
• How it's used
  Qualified immunity is a defense to civil actions, not criminal proceedings.
  
  
• Criticism
  Qualified immunity has been criticized for shielding government officials from lawsuits, even when they've violated the Constitution. Some say it makes it more difficult to hold abusive officers accountable.
  
  
• State reforms
  Since 2020, six states and New York City have limited or banned qualified immunity for police officers facing civil rights lawsuits.

The Supreme Court established qualified immunity in 1967 as a defense to § 1983 claims, which allows state and local police officers to be sued.

 

[rjs330]

Again, think through the scenario. You're dead asleep in your bedroom. You are startled awake by vague shouting and then the front door of the house is violently shattered.

Their so-called "verbal announcements" are basically horse manure when followed instantly by the door being broken down.

These kinds of search warrants happen all the time. 99% of the time they go off without any issues. Nighttime is the best time to do one. When I say night I mean very late. Like 3 or 4 am. That is actually much safer than during the day when the bad guys are up and can see you coming. Speed and violence of action are your best defense when dealing with potentially violent felons. And before you get all bent out of shape over violence of action do some research on what that means.

BUT, that doesn't mean though that it's ALWAYS the best option. If your dealing with a non violent misdemeanor then a day warrant knock is the best option.

It sounds like you don't ever want a night warrant served.

This particular case once again is a rarity. I really get tired of the rare case being made out to be "happens all the time". When the police are involved in trying to take down a bad guy there us NO WAY it's ever going to be perfection. You are dealing with human beings. And if you've ever met one you know that no matter what or who they are or how much training they have they can still make mistakes. Especially when dealing with other human beings who are completely un predictable. I think the cops do a great job for 99% of the cases.

THIS CASE however is one the 1% where they botched it from the get go. And everyone involved who screwed this up should face justice over it. I've never said otherwise.

 

[rjs330]

Remember, the constabulary had a warrant, (for a neighboring abode, to search, identify and seize, property.
Did the cops think the deceased gentleman held a key to the residence they weren’t raiding?

I have no idea what you are talking about. I haven't once in this thread made any claims that the police were correct in this case. They botched this from the very start.

 

[rjs330]

And that obviates what you said earlier.

I dont know know how. Because I've held the same opinions at the start of this thread. The police botched this from the start. They shouldn't have even been at this residence.

 

[BPPLEE]

These kinds of search warrants happen all the time. 99% of the time they go off without any issues. Nighttime is the best time to do one. When I say night I mean very late. Like 3 or 4 am. That is actually much safer than during the day when the bad guys are up and can see you coming. Speed and violence of action are your best defense when dealing with potentially violent felons. And before you get all bent out of shape over violence of action do some research on what that means.

BUT, that doesn't mean though that it's ALWAYS the best option. If your dealing with a non violent misdemeanor then a day warrant knock is the best option.

It sounds like you don't ever want a night warrant served.

This particular case once again is a rarity. I really get tired of the rare case being made out to be "happens all the time". When the police are involved in trying to take down a bad guy there us NO WAY it's ever going to be perfection. You are dealing with human beings. And if you've ever met one you know that no matter what or who they are or how much training they have they can still make mistakes. Especially when dealing with other human beings who are completely un predictable. I think the cops do a great job for 99% of the cases.

THIS CASE however is one the 1% where they botched it from the get go. And everyone involved who screwed this up should face justice over it. I've never said otherwise.

When Muslims take out the twin towers and conduct terrorists attacks we are reminded that it's not all Muslims and we have to fight Islamophobia.
When minorities loot and burn and kill each other, we're reminded that it's not all of them and it's racist to point out their race.
But when some police do something stupid or abuse their power, we're told that it's typical of all police and they should be defunded

 

[RDKirk]

When Muslims take out the twin towers and conduct terrorists attacks we are reminded that it's not all Muslims and we have to fight Islamophobia.
When minorities loot and burn and kill each other, we're reminded that it's not all of them and it's racist to point out their race.
But when some police do something stupid or abuse their power, we're told that it's typical of all police and they should be defunded

In all those cases, (and I'm a minority saying so), there should be a community response that includes "That was our bad. How do we need to change to prevent this from happening again?"

Although the military is far from perfect (and seems to have gotten worse in the last decade), when I was active duty it was an ethic of the service to say, "That was our bad. How do we need to change to prevent this from happening again?"

What we will see happen in this case, as we've seen over and over again, is that the police will not say, "This is our bad" and even if they do, they will not make any procedural changes to make sure this does not happen again.

 

[BPPLEE]

In all those cases, (and I'm a minority saying so), there should be a community response that includes "That was our bad. How do we need to change to prevent this from happening again?"

Although the military is far from perfect (and seems to have gotten worse in the last decade), when I was active duty it was an ethic of the service to say, "That was our bad. How do we need to change to prevent this from happening again?"

What we will see happen in this case, as we've seen over and over again, is that the police will not say, "This is our bad" and even if they do, they will not make any procedural changes to make sure this does not happen again.

Then they are idiots. There is going to be civil liability in this case and there could be criminal charges.
Getting the houses mixed up could be a mistake and they could argue that they were acting in good faith.
But if they were out of their jurisdiction you can throw the good faith argument out.
Someone in the deceased man's family is going to get a generous settlement

 

[rjs330]

What we will see happen in this case, as we've seen over and over again, is that the police will not say, "This is our bad" and even if they do, they will not make any procedural changes to make sure this does not happen again.

I dont think that's true at all. I think the police are costantly working all the time to make procedural changes. Columbine is a good example. Officers all over the US are being trained in active shooter scenarios now. And again in 99% of the cases officers know they are going in when that goes down. Not 100% as we saw in Florida I believe.

Police are a local entity with each agency run by the local government. So there isn't one big system to run the police. We dont have a national force like we do the military.

But that being said the police are doing what they can to get better at what they do. Do 100% of them and do 100% if cops do it as well? Nope. I don't know how any of us should expect that from any human organization. Doctors aren't 100% right and cause a lot of problems over it.

When cops screw up they deserve criticism for that screw up. But only those individuals or that individual agency. Not the profession in general. When a doctor screws up we don't see headlines and news programs splashing it around. We dont see national calls for medical reform and a painting of the medical profession as a bunch of screw ups.

 

[RDKirk]

I dont think that's true at all. I think the police are costantly working all the time to make procedural changes. Columbine is a good example. Officers all over the US are being trained in active shooter scenarios now. And again in 99% of the cases officers know they are going in when that goes down. Not 100% as we saw in Florida I believe.

Police are a local entity with each agency run by the local government. So there isn't one big system to run the police. We dont have a national force like we do the military.

But that being said the police are doing what they can to get better at what they do. Do 100% of them and do 100% if cops do it as well? Nope. I don't know how any of us should expect that from any human organization. Doctors aren't 100% right and cause a lot of problems over it.

When cops screw up they deserve criticism for that screw up. But only those individuals or that individual agency. Not the profession in general. When a doctor screws up we don't see headlines and news programs splashing it around. We dont see national calls for medical reform and a painting of the medical profession as a bunch of screw ups.

So, why do these mistaken address situations keep happening when they're easy to prevent?

In the US Navy, when the Navy finds a problem, it searches for a solution. When it finds the solution, every ship is commanded to stop dead in the water, implement the solution, and will not get underway again until the solution has been implemented.

 

[Pommer]

I have no idea what you are talking about. I haven't once in this thread made any claims that the police were correct in this case. They botched this from the very start.

I had been agreeing with you, but if you’d like our exchanges to be more adversarial, I could probably oblige.

 

[BPPLEE]

So, why do these mistaken address situations keep happening when they're easy to prevent?

In the US Navy, when the Navy finds a problem, it searches for a solution. When it finds the solution, every ship is commanded to stop dead in the water, implement the solution, and will not get underway again until the solution has been implemented.

It's like he said. The Navy is one unified organization under a command system.
The police are not. Every city and county have an independent department. Every state has a different department.
It's not a unified system like the military

 

[Belk]

Then they are idiots. There is going to be civil liability in this case and there could be criminal charges.
Getting the houses mixed up could be a mistake and they could argue that they were acting in good faith.
But if they were out of their jurisdiction you can throw the good faith argument out.
Someone in the deceased man's family is going to get a generous settlement

What are your thoughts on their criminal liability? Do you think they should be charged with some form of manslaughter or do you think loss of their job is enough punishment in cases such as this?

 

[Belk]

When Muslims take out the twin towers and conduct terrorists attacks we are reminded that it's not all Muslims and we have to fight Islamophobia.
When minorities loot and burn and kill each other, we're reminded that it's not all of them and it's racist to point out their race.
But when some police do something stupid or abuse their power, we're told that it's typical of all police and they should be defunded

I have not seen that claim. What I have seen is the claim that police are the wrong people to be dealing with things like homelessness and mental health issues and that the money for the police should be split out to provide these services.

 

[rjs330]

So, why do these mistaken address situations keep happening when they're easy to prevent?

Why do do.doctors keep.making the same mistakes?

Using the words "keep happening", have several connotations in my view. One being they happen more than once but rarely. Two They are happening all the time. Or three, they happen too often.

In regards to happening more than once but still rarely, I think that's okay to criticize particular agency for it, but not the profession.

For number two, all the time would mean the profession is to blame and we would need nation wide reforms. But first one would have to show it is happening all the time and not at rare occurances limited to a particular agency at a particular time. And if one could prove it's happening all time then the entire profession could be blamed and we would absolutely need a forced reform.

For number three, what is too often? If police are conducting raids of 50 a day across the US how many of them are ending in a false address raid? How many would be too often?

In my local jurisdiction we had the police raid the wrong address a few.
years ago and end up tasing the owner. Big mistake. In the last 25 years at least that's the first time a wrong address was raided. And rhey do drug raids often enough or other kids of felony raids. Is that too often? I don't think so.

As tragic as a fatal avoidable.error as that can be, the profession does.a good job in my opinion. And also it is my opinion that a local.agency that screws it up should face serious consequences for doing so. And we should absolutely expect that it IS going to happen from time to time on a rare occasion because human beings are involved. And human beings make mistakes.

You like to.use the military. Well the military has not eliminated.friendly fire scenarios despite the rules, regulatios, caution and every other thing they have done to stop it. Why haven't they? Because human beings make mistakes. Should the entire military be hung out to dry when it happens? I don't think think so. Do you?