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Trump Found Guilty on All 34 Counts In Hush-Money Trial

A2SG

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Whatever term you prefer and approve of, only one case ended up with a conviction which will finalize in an anticlimactic unconditional discharge. For years I've been hearing about how badly Trump was going to be punished, how he's going to end up in jail, how big bad Jack Smith was going to put him away, over and over again. It has all ended not with a bang, but with a whimper. These prosecutors have had years to put Trump away and nada. Which is supposedly all Trump's fault, rather than a lacking on their part. Most of these cases were simply left hanging out there, not getting anywhere, up to the election, and then the prosecutors dropped their cases. Tons of hype with lots and lots of build up, to a bland mediocre ending on their part and Trump hip deep in victory.

View attachment 359462
Yup, Trump managed to avoid being held accountable for his proven crimes.

Congratulations.

-- A2SG, you should be very proud of your duly elected felon....
 
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FaithT

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Yup, Trump managed to avoid being held accountable for his proven crimes.

Congratulations.

-- A2SG, you should be very proud of your duly elected felon....
The way some people get away with stuff is vile.
 
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ozso

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Yup, Trump managed to avoid being held accountable for his proven crimes.
More like those engaged in political lawfare avoided taking it too far. There's probably deep furrows on courtroom floors from all of their feet dragging.
 
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ozso

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This is probably good news for Trump - why - because now the appeal process can begin.
Exactly. Merchan is doing him a favor.

A purely personal opinion; I've had the feeling for quite a while that Merchan regrets being involved in this.
 
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A2SG

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More like those engaged in political lawfare avoided taking it too far. There's probably deep furrows on courtroom floors from all of their feet dragging.
Yeah, yeah. You can keep calling a fair trial "lawfare" all you like. But only because you continue to ignore the EVIDENCE that showed a jury thst Trump was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

-- A2SG, that pesky evidence again....
 
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ozso

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Yeah, yeah. You can keep calling a fair trial "lawfare" all you like. But only because you continue to ignore the EVIDENCE that showed a jury thst Trump was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
This is real simple. If the jurors belived any part of all the claims that Trump becoming president was going to have a negative impact on their lives and those they care about, then there's no way they could be truly impartial. Unlike most jurors, they had a personal stake in the outcome. And unlike most jurors they might have already had an axe to grind against the defendant long before they were called for jury duty.
 
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A2SG

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This is real simple. If the jurors belived any part of all the claims that Trump becoming president was going to have a negative impact on their lives and those they care about, then there's no way they could be truly impartial. Unlike most jurors, they had a personal stake in the outcome. And unlike most jurors they might have already had an axe to grind against the defendant long before they were called for jury duty.
If any of the jurors being selected felt that way, why did Trump's lawyers select them, or not raise an objection for cause?

Trump's legal team did help select the jury, after all.

-- A2SG, and we're back to the "jury was in on it" conspiracy theory....
 
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Aryeh Jay

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Yeah, yeah. You can keep calling a fair trial "lawfare" all you like. But only because you continue to ignore the EVIDENCE that showed a jury thst Trump was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

-- A2SG, that pesky evidence again....

Isn't a jury supposed to be of your peers? How many successful billionaires or millionaires were on the jury? Hour many successful business owners? Successful TV personalities? Any successful authors? Former Presidents or any Republican politicians? No? Just a hand picked bunch of ordinary people who were paid by the court no less to secure a guilty conviction.
 
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BPPLEE

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If any of the jurors being selected felt that way, why did Trump's lawyers select them, or not raise an objection for cause?

Trump's legal team did help select the jury, after all.

-- A2SG, and we're back to the "jury was in on it" conspiracy theory....
Maybe they did object but the judge let them be selected anyway. The defense can only strike a number of jurors
 
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ozso

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If any of the jurors being selected felt that way, why did Trump's lawyers select them, or not raise an objection for cause?

Trump's legal team did help select the jury, after all.
Nobody is a mind reader. And just as people lie to get out of jury duty, others are capable of lying to get on jury duty. Trump's lawyers could only do their best with what they had to work with.

Tell me this, why is it that are there so many people, who are familiar with the evidence presented, who don't find it compelling?
 
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FenderTL5

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Tell me this, why is it that are there so many people, who are familiar with the evidence presented, who don't find it compelling?
It's those who see nothing wrong with fudging a few business ledger lines to hide infidelity/immorality from their spouse/significant other or general public.
 
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FenderTL5

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Yeah, yeah. You can keep calling a fair trial "lawfare" all you like. But only because you continue to ignore the EVIDENCE that showed a jury thst Trump was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

-- A2SG, that pesky evidence again....
ozso hasn't been arguing that Trump is innocent, evidence has nothing to do with it either way. By touting lawfare the argument is that the prosecution of his crimes was politicaly motivated.
The sentiment seems to be, He may or may not be guilty, but since he's rich and powerful it should've been ignored.
 
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A2SG

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Isn't a jury supposed to be of your peers? How many successful billionaires or millionaires were on the jury? Hour many successful business owners? Successful TV personalities? Any successful authors? Former Presidents or any Republican politicians? No?
That's not what the term means.

Just a hand picked bunch of ordinary people who were paid by the court no less to secure a guilty conviction.
First, both legal teams participate in jury selection. Second, jurors are instructed to reach an impartial verdict, based on the evidence presented. They are not "paid by the court no less to secure a guilty conviction."

This is how juries have always worked in this country.

-- A2SG, surely you've seen a lawyer show once or twice before....
 
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BPPLEE

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ozso hasn't been arguing that Trump is innocent, evidence has nothing to do with it either way. By touting lawfare the argument is that the prosecution of his crimes was politicaly motivated.
The sentiment seems to be, He may or may not be guilty, but since he's rich and powerful it should've been ignored.
No the sentiment is if they can do this to him they can do it to anyone
 
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A2SG

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Maybe they did object but the judge let them be selected anyway. The defense can only strike a number of jurors
Not true. There is no limit to how many jurors each legal team can excuse for cause. There are a limited number of preemptory challenges, i believe three each, that do not have to show cause.

-- A2SG, the process is designed to be fair, after all....
 
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A2SG

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Nobody is a mind reader. And just as people lie to get out of jury duty, others are capable of lying to get on jury duty. Trump's lawyers could only do their best with what they had to work with.
So you're continuing with the conspiracy theory that the jury was in on it, huh? Oh well, I guess you gotta go with what ya got.

Tell me this, why is it that are there so many people, who are familiar with the evidence presented, who don't find it compelling?
They weren't on the jury. And how many of them saw all of the evidence and heard all of the testimony as the jury did?

-- A2SG, there's been a lot of pontificating from many who didn't see any of the evidence...and quite a few who don't care about it anyway....
 
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A2SG

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ozso hasn't been arguing that Trump is innocent, evidence has nothing to do with it either way. By touting lawfare the argument is that the prosecution of his crimes was politicaly motivated.
The sentiment seems to be, He may or may not be guilty, but since he's rich and powerful it should've been ignored.
That does seem to be the case, all right.

-- A2SG, also why some have cheered the lack of accountability....
 
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FenderTL5

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No the sentiment is if they can do this to him they can do it to anyone
I hope so. The law(s) should apply to everyone.
 
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FenderTL5

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Historically, Trump is the only one prosecuted under this law that makes a misdemeanor a felony
The Manhattan DA’s office has filed charges for falsification of business records 9,794 times since 2015.
 
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