Are You *Really* Christians?

[ozso]

AMBASSADOR HAT​

Friendly reminder for this then:



At this point, however, given the amount of engagement posts you've written to talk over your video's subjects, I'm not particularly concerned about staff actions being taken against you at this time. Carry on.

AMBASSADOR HAT OFF​

As for me, I should note that I'm the one who actually lives out of my parents' house and also drives a 24 year old Toyota. My lack of affluence, however, isn't by choice, so I can't really describe that as moral virtue.



I honestly want my own land to feed myself and some Christian people in need who I know. Once I have that land, I don't think that will count as some kind of botch on my virtue. We are called to step outside of the patterns of this world in whatever way that brings glory to Christ, not to pursue poverty because we think that makes us better in God's eyes.



The Scripture teaches us a balanced approach between wealth and poverty. The sluggard is rebuked in Proverbs, and the rich are rebuked in James. Either extreme is unhealthy. Whatever financial means that allows us to accomplish God's purposes should be our goal, I would think.

God didn't seem to mind Abraham having great wealth. But I honestly don't think it matters. It's how attached to things one is that matters. I'm sure there are wealthy Christians who contribute a great deal of time and money to help others and further the Kingdom. I'm sure a lot of charities exist because someone with wealth founded them. Grants and tuitions funded by the rich. Hospital wings. Shelters. Orphanages.

A poor person can be just as ungodly as a rich person.

 

[Ben Leevey]

This is a where I have lived for many years. It was built as a cheap hotel in 1917. It features very small rooms only equipped with a small sink. And I drive a dented up 25 year old Toyota.

Does this make me more godly?

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No.

 

[Ben Leevey]

Why else would that website have "Today's Puritan Audio Devotional"?

That's not my website. I just get my quotes from the brother who runs it. He is 73, and we're very close friends.

 

[Ben Leevey]

I honestly want my own land to feed myself and some Christian people in need who I know. Once I have that land, I don't think that will count as some kind of botch on my virtue. We are called to step outside of the patterns of this world in whatever way that brings glory to Christ, not to pursue poverty because we think that makes us better in God's eyes.

Totally agree! This has been made an issue it's not.

 

[Ben Leevey]

What have I said about it that's negative?

Using the name Puritan as an accusation.

 

[Ben Leevey]

Friendly reminder for this then:


At this point, however, given the amount of engagement posts you've written to talk over your video's subjects, I'm not particularly concerned about staff actions being taken against you at this time. Carry on.

In response to this, thank you for the reminder! Just to clarify, I did not post this to drive traffic. I actually created it with places like this in mind, because what I have seen has been disturbing me for the welfare of the Church.
Also to further clarify, I know @ozso keeps talking about housing, and he kind of brought that up, but that's not the primary thrust of the video.

There's nothing wrong with living in a comfortable house. Now, if our pursuit, becomes comfort and security above Christ, that is wrong.

 

[ozso]

Using the name Puritan as an accusation.

I was using it as a description. Reinforced by the website you posted. But so far I haven't said that I think it's bad or good.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Good luck on the mission field.

 

[ozso]

That's not my website. I just get my quotes from the brother who runs it. He is 73, and we're very close friends.

I didn't say it was your website. I just said with that selection available on the website, there must be a contemporary aspect to Puritainism.

 

[ozso]

No.

Then what did you mean when you said:

"Friend, I think, if I where to guess, you live in a nice house, and probably a lifestyle that you want to defend."

Why would I need to defend that?

 

[Ben Leevey]

I didn't say it was your website. I just said with that selection available on the website, there must be a contemporary aspect to Puritainism.

One can certainly grow close to Christ, as the Puritans where. But the reason those devotional are labelled "Puritan" is because they are quotes from the Puritans.

Our goal should not be to imitate the Puritans, but rather Jesus Christ.

 

[Ben Leevey]

Then what did you mean when you said "Friend, I think, if I where to guess, you live in a nice house, and probably a lifestyle that you want to defend"? Why would I need to defend that?

(And I still don't know if you do or not). You have been rather defensive. Someone is not usually defensive unless they are defending something they have or want to have.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I am reminded of ..
Aspire to live quietly, to attend to your own matters, and to work with your own hands, as we instructed you. so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody. (1st Thessalonians Chapter 4:11-12)

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I was also reminded of this passage.

Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with their own hands, that they may have something to share with those in need. (Ephesians 4:28)

 

[Ben Leevey]

I am reminded of ..
Aspire to live quietly, to attend to your own matters, and to work with your own hands, as we instructed you. so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody. (1st Thessalonians Chapter 4:11-12)

Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with their own hands, that they may have something to share with those in need. (Ephesians 4:28)

Yes indeed! We don't need to be paupers! I don't think I have ever claimed this. But Americans are far more then living quietly for the most part. We spend money so wastefully!

But again, this isn't the central issue of the video.

 

[ozso]

(And I still don't know if you do or not). You have been rather defensive. Someone is not usually defensive unless they are defending something they have or want to have.

I'm simply having a discussion from my point of view. You're seeing things that aren't coming from my end.

 

[Ben Leevey]

I was also reminded of this passage.

Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with their own hands, that they may have something to share with those in need. (Ephesians 4:28)

Amen! Very true! But are we sharing more of our surplus with the needy, or trying to get the next best car with it? I can't speak on an individual basis. I can on a national.

 

[ozso]

Yes indeed! We don't need to be paupers! I don't think I have ever claimed this. But Americans are far more then living quietly for the most part. We spend money so wastefully!

But again, this isn't the central issue of the video.

What's the central issue then?

 

[Ben Leevey]

I'm simply having a discussion from my point of view. You're seeing things that aren't coming from my end.

I haven't seen many honest questions. Rather antagonism. But is you have any honest questions I will gladly answer them!

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Yes indeed! We don't need to be paupers! I don't think I have ever claimed this. But Americans are far more then living quietly for the most part. We spend money so wastefully!

But again, this isn't the central issue of the video.

What would you say is the central issue of the video?