Syrian rebels enter Aleppo for first time in eight years during shock offensive

[Nithavela]

As for me, the Assad regime was so horrible that I think it would be worth taking almost any chance on change.

Apparently this militia leadership has been trying to tone down its extremist vibe over the years. Could be real. Or it could be like the Taliban who promised moderation only to walk it back step by step arriving at the same absurd misogyny they began with.

Or it could be that they really toned down their extremism, but a more extreme faction will start vying for power or take over.

Things are really, really unstable right now. I think there's about a 50/50 chance of things either getting somewhat worse or a lot better. So as far as I'm concerned, this is positive.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Assad has paid at least lip service to favoring and protecting the christian minority in Syria, so he has some good publicity by some christians, who are happy to overlook his poor treatment of muslims and kurds.

Christians and Kurds in the region should have fled to Israel a long time ago. It's only an 8 hour drive. Maybe Gaza could be razed and given to them now that the Palastinians in Gaza are almost wiped out.

 

[Nithavela]

Christians and Kurds in the region should have fled to Israel a long time ago. It's only an 8 hour drive. Maybe Gaza could be razed and given to them now that the Palastinians in Gaza are almost wiped out.

Are you sure they shouldn't just nuke Gaza from orbit? It's the only way to be sure.

 

[durangodawood]

Christians and Kurds in the region should have fled to Israel a long time ago. It's only an 8 hour drive. Maybe Gaza could be razed and given to them now that the Palastinians in Gaza are almost wiped out.

I thought you were supposed to rail against charges of 'genocide' against Israel, rather than cheerleading for an actual genocide......?

 

[Landon Caeli]

Are you sure they shouldn't just nuke Gaza from orbit? It's the only way to be sure.

No comment.

 

[Landon Caeli]

I thought you were supposed to rail against charges of 'genocide' against Israel, rather than cheerleading for an actual genocide......?

I haven't said anything specific. I have no further comments.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Christians and Kurds in the region should have fled to Israel a long time ago. It's only an 8 hour drive. Maybe Gaza could be razed and given to them now that the Palastinians in Gaza are almost wiped out.

What makes you think Israel would take them in? What refugees or migrants has the State of Israel ever taken in other than groups of Jews under the "right of return"? (And where do you get the notion that the Palestinians of Gaza are mostly wiped out in the first place?)

 

[Nithavela]

It seems that to celebrate the victory over the dictator Assad, Israel has started to bomb Syria. Brilliant move to preclude any positive relationship between the new rulers of Syria and Israel.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/suspected-israeli-strikes-hit-part-damascus-two-security-sources-say-2024-12-08/

 

[Hazelelponi]

Im not sure how people here decide that an Iran-Hezbollah allied terrorist murderer is better than an Islamist terrorist militia.

A stable government with fewer deaths and a little more freedom and some peace in the land is always preferable to living as a second class citizen under people who kill minorities without a second thought.

I do believe Assad cared about the people, far more than the terrorists do.

They will put on a good face for 5 minutes then they will start killing people and the world won't care. Like the Ayatollahs, like the Taliban, like Hamas...

The goal of any government is the most peace and stability for the people who live there that can be provided. Terrorists generally have those concerns pretty far down their lists - if it's even on there at all before the killing of everyone who disagrees with them.

 

[durangodawood]

.....The goal of any government is the most peace and stability for the people who live there that can be provided. Terrorists generally have those concerns pretty far down their lists.

Peace and stability are balanced against how much torture and oppression a people can tolerate before they will roll the dice on something better.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Peace and stability are balanced against how much torture and oppression a people can tolerate before they will roll the dice on something better.

You do understand what made them angry right?

Because minorities were being allowed to rule over them. They wanted to kill over it. Then we started paying, training and arming them to kill minorities.

Now they have power. But they sure love their neighbors. Excellent addition to the cause of endless murder in the middle east. Keeps that old military industrial complex going.

By the way, for the countries accepting refugees. The older refugees are enemies of the new ones. They don't get along, clearly.

 

[durangodawood]

You do understand what made them angry right?

Because minorities were being allowed to rule over them. They wanted to kill over it. Then we started paying, training and arming them to kill minorities.

Now they have power. But they sure love their neighbors. Excellent addition to the cause of endless murder in the middle east. Keeps that old military industrial complex going.

By the way, for the countries accepting refugees. The older refugees are enemies of the new ones.

Remains to be seen what the disposition of the new boss really is. Could be same as the old boss. Or not. Modern Syria was built (by the "Christian" powers) to fail. Its like an unstable isotope.

And dont think the Assad regime was kept in place without a military industrial complex backing it - just from a different side (Russia-Iran).

 

[DaisyDay]

Christians and Kurds in the region should have fled to Israel a long time ago. It's only an 8 hour drive.

Israel is for the Jews, not the Christians. Kurds are mostly Sunni Muslim - are you sure you want to let them live...in Israel?

Maybe Gaza could be razed and given to them now that the Palastinians in Gaza are almost wiped out.

What a horrific idea. Besides, there are gas & oil to be had just offshore as well as the proposed Ben Gurion canal. And, as Jared has said, there is prime beachfront property to develop and profit from. [/s]

 

[Hazelelponi]

Remains to be seen what the disposition of the new boss really is. Could be same as the old boss. Or not. Modern Syria was built (by the "Christian" powers) to fail. Its like an unstable isotope.

And dont think the Assad regime was kept in place without a military industrial complex backing it - just from a different side (Russia-Iran).

We already know exactly who they are. They are on the designated terrorists list for a reason. Not because they are saints who are after world peace.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Remains to be seen what the disposition of the new boss really is. Could be same as the old boss.

If you're referring to the rebel leader...

He's a former Al Qaeda member (who even led his own Qaeda affiliate cell).

He left and cut all ties with the group, but that's not necessarily a guarantee that he abandoned all of their principles, it could've simply been a power struggle deal.

Per a PBS article, his previously stated ambitions were:
topple Assad, seize Damascus and set up an Islamic state in Syria under sharia law.


And when asked about it, in his own words:
ABU MOHAMMAD AL-JOLANI:

[Speaking Arabic] We’re calling for what we believe in. No one should object to this, especially since Islamic sharia is filled with justice and with humane solutions for society. It’s based on a just and righteous message.

Yes...humane solutions like physically abusing women because if a man cheats on his own wife with them, it must because she "tempted him" in some way by showing a little too much hair or ankle skin.

Assad was much more secular, but was clearly power hungry and authoritarian in other ways.


This could very well be another one of those "trading a more secular authoritarian with a religious authoritarian" situation that's happened numerous times in the Arab world.


It's unfortunate, but the Arab world (more so than any other region) has been faced with this "no-win" situation far too often.

Economic oppression vs. Religious oppression.


To use an American-version analogy.

Imagine you're currently under the rule of President Jeff Bezos (he's consolidated power, and is running the country the way he currently runs Amazon), and the group seeking to overthrow him is led by Rebel Leader Jerry Falwell...

For a substantial portion of the population, they're simply trading one form of oppressive leadership for another. The only people who would feel they benefit from that change of power would be the religious zealots.

 

[durangodawood]

We already know exactly who they are. They are on the designated terrorists list for a reason. Not because they are saints who are after world peace.

Assad ran a terrorist regime too. We'll see if the new boss is a nicer terrorist or not.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Assad ran a terrorist regime too. We'll see if the new boss is a nicer terrorist or not.

Oh I'm sure he'll be nicer... to fundamentalist straight men who practice the same form of Islam he does. It'll probably be a bumpy ride for everyone who doesn't fall into that specific category.

 

[durangodawood]

If you're referring to the rebel leader...

He's a former Al Qaeda member (who even led his own Qaeda affiliate cell).

He left and cut all ties with the group, but that's not necessarily a guarantee that he abandoned all of their principles, it could've simply been a power struggle deal.

Per a PBS article, his previously stated ambitions were:
topple Assad, seize Damascus and set up an Islamic state in Syria under sharia law.


And when asked about it, in his own words:
ABU MOHAMMAD AL-JOLANI:

[Speaking Arabic] We’re calling for what we believe in. No one should object to this, especially since Islamic sharia is filled with justice and with humane solutions for society. It’s based on a just and righteous message.

Yes...humane solutions like physically abusing women because if a man cheats on his own wife with them, it must because she "tempted him" in some way by showing a little too much hair or ankle skin.

Assad was much more secular, but was clearly power hungry and authoritarian in other ways.


This could very well be another one of those "trading a more secular authoritarian with a religious authoritarian" situation that's happened numerous times in the Arab world.


It's unfortunate, but the Arab world (more so than any other region) has been faced with this "no-win" situation far too often.

Economic oppression vs. Religious oppression.


To use an American-version analogy.

Imagine you're currently under the rule of President Jeff Bezos (he's consolidated power, and is running the country the way he currently runs Amazon), and the group seeking to overthrow him is led by Rebel Leader Jerry Falwell...

For a substantial portion of the population, they're simply trading one form of oppressive leadership for another. The only people who would feel they benefit from that change of power would be the religious zealots.

He talks a "nice" talk over the last few years. Even changing his name away from his warrior handle. I'll believe it when I see it. But Assad was untenable for too many Syrians.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

He talks a "nice" talk over the last few years. Even changing his name away from his warrior handle. I'll believe it when I see it. But Assad was untenable for too many Syrians.

We've seen these kinds of power transfers dozens of times over there...

"More secularist leader, but authoritarian and exploitative, and a puppet to outside interests" gets replaced with "populist religious rebel group". (sometimes those rebel groups are even backed by the US - foolheartedly)

Can you think of any instance where it's actually improved the lives the people living there? Or has it pretty much always been an "out of the frying pan, into the other (sometimes worse) frying pan" type of situation?


When you think about it, that is sort of the nature of "rebel takeovers". In order to be a rebel ambitious enough to organize and amass enough influence, support, and resources to take on an established nation's government (and win), there has to be a little bit of that "power hungry" mentality on the rebellion side as well.

 

[durangodawood]

We've seen these kinds of power transfers dozens of times over there...

"More secularist leader, but authoritarian and exploitative, and a puppet to outside interests" gets replaced with "populist religious rebel group". (sometimes those rebel groups are even backed by the US - foolheartedly)

Can you think of any instance where it's actually improved the lives the people living there? Or has it pretty much always been an "out of the frying pan, into the other (sometimes worse) frying pan" type of situation?


When you think about it, that is sort of the nature of "rebel takeovers". In order to be a rebel ambitious enough to organize and amass enough influence, support, and resources to take on an established nation's government (and win), there has to be a little bit of that "power hungry" mentality on the rebellion side as well.

I'm a 20% believer in revolutions. 80% of the time they turn sour. Off the cuff numbers.

But I also believe that when things are awful people will roll the dice on that 20% chance. Look at Russia. You can talk about how bad the Bolshies turned out, but the revolution was going to happen one way or another. The peasants were miserable and quasi slaves for ages and the Tzar was utterly intransigent.

Are you proposing the US should have taken a different attitude toward the Syrian situation over the last decade. Or suggestions for the incoming Trump admin?