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To my understanding it will be a purging of the effects of sin, so, junk in space, a result of the fall, and all of Musk's satellites, yes, to my understanding. But the whole planets destroyed... that would contradict several scriptures (which I can put out if you like).
Now, this issue is quite secondary.
Scientists attempt by observation to trace backwards to a point of origin called the "big bang".
Creationism tries to connect the known universe to day 1.
Does that even make sense? All was perfectly good at creation, so could there be exploding stars, colliding galaxies and rogue celestial objects?
Did the fall of man throw the entire universe into chaos? What of the first judgment of man? The present observable universe can only trace back to the time of Noah, at which time the Cosmos was condemned, and moves forward toward destruction.
The Bible teaches of a new heaven and a new earth, which is a new cosmology, of life
without the threats of obliteration from supernovas and killer asteroids.
Biblical Cosmology is a part of our blessed hope.
Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the Cosmos and became heir of the righteousness which is according to Faith. [G2889-kosmos] uses some 185 times in the New...
To my understanding it will be a purging of the effects of sin, so, junk in space, a result of the fall, and all of Musk's satellites, yes, to my understanding. But the whole planets destroyed... that would contradict several scriptures (which I can put out if you like).
I understand how you are viewing it.
No need to provide those scriptures. Most of them are in this thread, and I agree with you on that.
So where will all the animal life and plant life be, when God purges the earth with fire?
Why would God preserve animal life, in an ark so that he can wipe out mankind, and then later wipe out the entire population of animal kind?
I don't know why that makes sense to anyone.
Would you like to explain why it makes sense to you?
Also, as I was discussing with @bling, that contradicts God, as stated at Genesis 8:21.
I understood what you meant.
Yes, not knowing and obeying the Gospel is a damnable error. 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10; Matthew 24:14
If it were necessary for someone to point this out to me, because I did not know it, it would humble me to realize I need someone to teach me the Gospel.
I know this is not what 99.9% people on these forum would do though.
They would all still conclude that they know, and what they don't know the holy spirit will reveal.
I find that amazing, but not surprising, since I know the reason why.
Why do you think 1:2-3 is related to Genesis 8:21?
One is the creation, thousands of years before the flood. The other is after the flood.
There are not referring to the same thing, and neither are they at odds.
But we must understand the gospel is made of parts, and some of these parts are essential, such as grace, and fruit. Other parts are not so foundational that not knowing them makes it so you don't know the gospel at all, such as understanding that Melchizedek is a picture of Christ.
It comes down to faith in the LORD. We have no reason to believe that Abraham knew how the world would end.
Scientists and Creationists alike, believe our planet earth will be destroyed.
Today, the sun is an essential source of gravity and energy. But one day, it will cause Earth's demise. As the solar system's central star ages, its life cycle will eventually consume our blue marble.
So how long does Earth have until the planet is swallowed by the sun? Expected time of death: several billion years from now. But life on Earth will end much, much sooner than that.
Earth will become unlivable for most organisms in about 1.3 billion years due to the sun's natural evolution, experts told Live Science. And humans could potentially drive ourselves (and countless other species) to extinction within the next few centuries, if the current pace of human-made climate change isn't mitigated, or as a consequence of nuclear war.
Today, the sun is an essential source of gravity and energy. But one day, it will cause Earth's demise. As the solar system's central star ages, its life cycle will eventually consume our blue marble.
Creationists use 2 Peter 3:5-7 as the basis for their belief that our planet earth will be destroyed.
What does the Bible say about planet earth, and it's purpose? God created the earth for mankind to live on. To be man's dwelling place - their home.
Isaiah 45:18
Psalm 115:16
Has God changed his mind about his purpose, for the earth?
God answers:
I, the LORD, do not change. Malachi 3:6
The righteous will inherit the earth and dwell in it forever. Psalm 37:29
Has God decided that planet earth is too bad to live on, and so decides to totally destroy it?
God answers:
A generation goes and a generation comes, But the earth remains forever. Ecclesiastes 1:4
He built His sanctuary like the heights, like the earth He has established forever. Psalm 78:69
He established the earth upon its foundations, So that it will not totter forever and ever. Psalm 104:5
Thus, the earth remains forever, and righteous mankind will inhabit it, forever.
God's purpose for the earth will be a reality.
What will conditions be like on the earth, when the righteous inherit it?
In Genesis 'earth' has this meaning on day 1;
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
Earth in Genesis 1 means: to be firm, the earth, a land, country, field, ground, or a land, wilderness.
So, God in verse 1 brought dry land from the water. Men were to live on the land, ground, and the fields.
Now your contention is that there will forever be land and solid ground for men to inhabit. This is true.
These scriptures do not contradict each other. So what is the answer?
You know the ones you presented. Here are some others that suggest that as those men who believe will be given new eternal spiritual bodies, there will be a eternal version 2.0 of the earth. Or firm ground, land, fields and wilderness.
Isaiah 65:17
“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind.
2 Peter 3:12-13
looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
Revelation 21:1
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.
Isaiah 66:22
“For just as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I make will endure before Me,” declares the Lord,
“So your offspring and your name will endure.
Hebrews 12:26-27
And His voice shook the earth then, but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I will shake not only the earth, but also the heaven.”
Hebrews 12:28
Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe;
Revelation 21:4
and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”
Has God changed his mind about his purpose, for the earth?
No. It is a continuation, a fulfillment of His plan. Think of Christ who fulfilled the law and brought a new covenant, a new testament.
There seems aways be a debate on faith vs works. There is no air between them.
It is FAITH THAT WORKS.
When in our human lack of understanding we are challenged to reconcile scripture lets not dismiss those we don't like or wish were not included because they seem to throw a cog in our wheel of preferred choice.
There is no conflict other than that between our ears.
But we must understand the gospel is made of parts, and some of these parts are essential, such as grace, and fruit. Other parts are not so foundational that not knowing them makes it so you don't know the gospel at all, such as understanding that Melchizedek is a picture of Christ.
It comes down to faith in the LORD. We have no reason to believe that Abraham knew how the world would end.
Judah and Jerusalem is a small part of the whole earth, and it was not God that did the burning of these cities. I believe this is when Babylon conquered these lands.
There were other nations that came under judgment, Moab, Assyria...
However, lot's of animal life and plant life remains.
Remember, that the promises concerned all - every living thing. Genesis 8:21
This is symbolic.
We can see that clearly, even if John did not tell us. Revelation 1:1.
Some do choose to read almost everything in Revelation literally, but like you said, that is controversial.
We should not insist on something that contradicts scripture, especially when it is said to be written in symbolism, nor when it can be.
Genesis 8:21, is not symbolic, so that should be our guide.
That's why we should not insist on 2 peter 3:7-12 being literal
It would refer to the kingdom of God, which is made up of the saints i.e. those who are cleansed by the powerful blood of Christ. It is ruled over by Christ, and it will know no end. It has come, and is yet to come.
Agreed, it is not symbolic, but I would call you to note the words "as I have done". Unless I'm missing something, the LORD is not saying he won't destroy it all. He's saying he won't do it the same way.
Also, on Zephaniah 1:2-3, it speaks of the fish of the sea as well. Oftentimes, as Isaiah very clearly portrays, the OT prophecies had a double meaning.
It would refer to the kingdom of God, which is made up of the saints i.e. those who are cleansed by the powerful blood of Christ. It is ruled over by Christ, and it will know no end. It has come, and is yet to come.
Agreed, it is not symbolic, but I would call you to note the words "as I have done". Unless I'm missing something, the LORD is not saying he won't destroy it all. He's saying he won't do it the same way.
Destroy it all?
At this point we need to clear this up.
Translate please, Genesis 8:21 from English to English.
I do not mean interpret it. I mean write it out in English as you would speak to a class of students.
Let's look at it together, and see where you got I won't destroy it all in the same way I did.
Also, on Zephaniah 1:2-3, it speaks of the fish of the sea as well. Oftentimes, as Isaiah very clearly portrays, the OT prophecies had a double meaning.
Translate please, Genesis 8:21 from English to English.
I do not mean interpret it. I mean write it out in English as you would speak to a class of students.
Let's look at it together, and see where you got I won't destroy it all in the same way I did.
21 And the Lord smelled a soothing aroma. Then the Lord said in His heart, “I will never again curse the ground for man’s sake, although the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.
The LORD , after he had destroyed every living thing on the earth, excepting all the creatures in the ark, and the eight souls in the ark, smelled the pleasant aroma (most likely not a literal smelling, but rather receiving adoration, which He loves, and deserves), caused by Noah's sacrificial offering.
Then the LORD declared in his heart (we have no clear indication from these two verses that he made this known to Noah) "I will never again curse the face of the earth because of man, even though he is evil from his youth, neither will I destroy all things that are alive, in the same way I have done before."
Notice, that He says he won't destroy them the same way. Not that he won't destroy them period.
In Genesis 'earth' has this meaning on day 1;
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
Earth in Genesis 1 means: to be firm, the earth, a land, country, field, ground, or a land, wilderness.
So, God in verse 1 brought dry land from the water. Men were to live on the land, ground, and the fields.
Now your contention is that there will forever be land and solid ground for men to inhabit. This is true.
These scriptures do not contradict each other. So what is the answer?
You know the ones you presented. Here are some others that suggest that as those men who believe will be given new eternal spiritual bodies, there will be a eternal version 2.0 of the earth. Or firm ground, land, fields and wilderness.
Isaiah 65:17
“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind.
2 Peter 3:12-13
looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
Revelation 21:1
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.
Isaiah 66:22
“For just as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I make will endure before Me,” declares the Lord,
“So your offspring and your name will endure.
Hebrews 12:26-27
And His voice shook the earth then, but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I will shake not only the earth, but also the heaven.”
Hebrews 12:28
Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe;
Revelation 21:4
and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”
Has God changed his mind about his purpose, for the earth?
No. It is a continuation, a fulfillment of His plan. Think of Christ who fulfilled the law and brought a new covenant, a new testament.
There seems aways be a debate on faith vs works. There is no air between them.
It is FAITH THAT WORKS.
When in our human lack of understanding we are challenged to reconcile scripture lets not dismiss those we don't like or wish were not included because they seem to throw a cog in our wheel of preferred choice.
There is no conflict other than that between our ears.
Thank you for those scriptures. They are all good.
I also appreciate your thorough explanation.
I'll like to reproduce the picture you have painted, so we can analyze it carefully. Correct me if I may not be following you correctly, please.
God has a purpose for the earth to be inhabited forever.
We don't know it yet though, that this is not going to be the earth we live on now, but God's purpose is to get rid of the earth we now inhabit, and create a new one, so in the end, his purpose is fulfilled... only, it is not his purpose for the earth he created, it is his purpose for the other earth he will create.
So, if asked why did God create the earth - for what purpose. The answer would be, to be a temporary place to dwell, until God removes it. The answer would not be correct if we say, to be inhabited forever.
Hence where you said:
Now your contention is that there will forever be land and solid ground for men to inhabit. This is true.
That would not be accurate either, because the following scriptures do not refer to a second earth.
A generation goes and a generation comes, But the earth remains forever. Ecclesiastes 1:4
He built His sanctuary like the heights, like the earth He has established forever. Psalm 78:69
He established the earth upon its foundations, So that it will not totter forever and ever. Psalm 104:5
These scriptures all refer to the earth God made, and we inhabit at present.
You said:
Has God changed his mind about his purpose, for the earth?
No. It is a continuation, a fulfillment of His plan. Think of Christ who fulfilled the law and brought a new covenant, a new testament.
A continuation of God's purpose for the earth would not be to destroy it, and create another. That is starting over, and demonstrates that God's purpose for the earth failed.
A continuation would be something like what @Ben Leevey suggests... only not exactly as he suggested, since that too would demonstrate failure, as God would have to also create animals all over again... something he has no plans of doing, as he did not even do this when he flooded the earth in Noah's day.
This raises a question.
When God destroys the planet earth, where will he put those whom he does not destroy?
The claim is that all people will be in heaven, but that would mean that all people have to die, and be given a heavenly body.
This, though, is not what the Bible says God's purpose is.
For the earth to be inhabited, people need an earthly body.
Those given a heavenly body, are not then given an earthly body so that they can return to earth.
So, there are a few problems with this idea.
Nevertheless, there is a conflict with the idea you presented, and the scriptures, and creating another earth does not result in God fulfilling his purpose for the earth.
21 And the Lord smelled a soothing aroma. Then the Lord said in His heart, “I will never again curse the ground for man’s sake, although the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.
The LORD , after he had destroyed every living thing on the earth, excepting all the creatures in the ark, and the eight souls in the ark, smelled the pleasant aroma (most likely not a literal smelling, but rather receiving adoration, which He loves, and deserves), caused by Noah's sacrificial offering.
Then the LORD declared in his heart (we have no clear indication from these two verses that he made this known to Noah) "I will never again curse the face of the earth because of man, even though he is evil from his youth, neither will I destroy all things that are alive, in the same way I have done before."
Notice, that He says he won't destroy them the same way. Not that he won't destroy them period.
Thank you.
Would you agree you interpreted the text, by inserting "in the same way"? Nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.
I will not wet my bed as I have done. I will not cut my hand as I have done.
That expression does not mean in the same way.
Would you like to explain, why you said, "in the same way"?
Thank you.
Would you agree you interpreted the text, by inserting "in the same way"? Nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.
I will not wet my bed as I have done. I will not cut my hand as I have done.
That expression does not mean in the same way.
Would you like to explain, why you said, "in the same way"?
I would say that we can't be dogmatic on either. I will not eat as I have. I will not pass out communion as I have (endangering the shirtfront of all attending), but rather I will take care to tie my shoes in future.
I think it could be used both ways. That is my interpretation in light of the rest of scripture, but from the passage itself, I could not dogmatically say either way.
A continuation would be something like what @Ben Leevey suggests... only not exactly as he suggested, since that too would demonstrate failure, as God would have to also create animals all over again... something he has no plans of doing, as he did not even do this when he flooded the earth in Noah's day.
For the earth to be inhabited, people need an earthly body.
Those given a heavenly body, are not then given an earthly body so that they can return to earth.
Well, what if we where to say they are given a perfect body for the renewed perfect earth? Rather than heavenly, which I would not say, to indicate separation from earth.
I would say that we can't be dogmatic on either. I will not eat as I have. I will not pass out communion as I have (endangering the shirtfront of all attending), but rather I will take care to tie my shoes in future.
I think it could be used both ways. That is my interpretation in light of the rest of scripture, but from the passage itself, I could not dogmatically say either way.
Yes, we can be dogmatic, because you would agree that inserting a comma, quotation mark, parenthesis, and phrases, can and do alter the text. Is that correct?
So, what you have done is altered the text.
"I will not eat in the same way as I have done", is totally different as "I will not eat as I have done".
A person reading the text will see what the writer wrote, and even if six persons interprets it differently, that has nothing to do with what was actually said.
An interpretation can throw things completely off course.
Let's hear though, what scriptures you used to conclude that you have done justice in interpreting the writer's words, in the way you did.
Well, what if we where to say they are given a perfect body for the renewed perfect earth? Rather than heavenly, which I would not say, to indicate separation from earth.
You would only be doing a rewrite of scripture, and inserting your own idea, in order to support a belief, and Peter as well as Paul, says this is disapproved by God. 2 Peter 3:16; 1 Corinthians 4:6
So, you would be playing into the hands of the Devil... and I am sure you would not want to do that.
You would only be doing a rewrite of scripture, and inserting your own idea, in order to support a belief, and Peter as well as Paul, says this is disapproved by God. 2 Peter 3:16; 1 Corinthians 4:6
Let me use the ESV here. That's my usual translation and I'm more comfortable with it:
Zephaniah 1:2–3 "I will utterly sweep away everything from the face of the earth," declares the Lord. "I will sweep away man and beast; I will sweep away the birds of the heavens and the fish of the sea, and the rubble with the wicked. I will cut off mankind from the face of the earth," declares the Lord.
To be perfectly forward, that's my only one. But if you can point out a way that it doesn't hold water, I'll gladly shift!
But the whole planets destroyed... that would contradict several scriptures (which I can put out if you like).
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