Free will and determinism

[Aaron112]

I'm sure you realize you don't simply speak truth into existence anymore than the OP does. You can't assert physics you don't understand as evidence.

The poster replied he does , and I think he thinks he does, because false religions and false beliefs make it possible to think that way, and even encourage that way of life /thinking, contrary to Jesus. I may be in error myself, and am willing to see this in the future if God Permits, and to repent.

 

[Aaron112]

Which is the same logic as:
"If there are no unicorns then there are no unicorns".

Life is not logical - many many people have said they have seen unicorns.

 

[o_mlly]

Life is not logical - many many people have said they have seen unicorns.

Do they have any pics? Y'know like the abominable snowman sightings.

 

[Aaron112]

Yeah, we decide to accept or reject information depending on how persuasive it is. How it stands up to information we already have. You'd do this whether you had free will or not.

I may be a fool for interjecting without knowing all the context,

but I accept information when it is truth, when it is in harmony with all truth, and when it is from God, not flesh, REGARDLESS of how persuasive it is. Regardless if I have free will or not, it is what I do by choice, what I choose to do; as God has been proven and remains honest, righteous and just. Man has been proven so unreliable, nothings is safe with man !

 

[Aaron112]

Do they have any pics? Y'know like the abominable snowman sightings.

View attachment 357217

Great example! Keep going and you can find the pics you ask about.

 

[Aaron112]

So free will cannot be compatible with determinism. And if existence is deterministic then free will is an illusion.

I think today for the mutltudes of multitudes on earth that free will is an illusion (i.e. normal state of affairs for almost everyone) , even deception, regardless of whatever determinism is defined as.

 

[Aaron112]

The idea that you can choose your beliefs is called doxastic voluntarism.

Some people believe this. I don't.

 

[Injeun]

Did you ever not work ?

Yes, for for first sixteen or so years of my life.

 

[Bradskii]

Here is a summary of this ~ 2500 posts thread.

The OP states his premise as a conditional:

"If the universe is determined then there is no free will".​

So counter the premise. After all those posts you'd think you would have at least made some attempt. And if you ask for a moral example so that you can discuss it then when it is given, then please discuss it.

 

[Aaron112]

Yes, for for first sixteen or so years of my life.

So not having an education did not mean you could not work after 16.

Many with college education are in debt and will never repay it, and many <said> they could not find work.

 

[Bradskii]

Because it was easy and fun, I decided to skip school even though I knew it was wrong. It became a habit and I didn't graduate.

So you were the type of of person who preferred to skip school rather than knuckle down. I guess we can say that your character at that time was one of the things that determined what you did. Do you agree with that?

 

[Bradskii]

Some people believe this. I don't.

Me neither. If you are convinced of something then you have no choice other than to believe it.

 

[Aaron112]

So you were the type of of person who preferred to skip school rather than knuckle down.

He , I think, knuckled down to work after he was 16. He did not need school. Most successful people did not need school. Many schooled people continue in the system to rob and steal and oppress in line with the system (the world's approved ways).

 

[Bradskii]

He , I think, knuckled down to work after he was 16. He did not need school. Most successful people did not need school. Many schooled people continue in the system to rob and steal and oppress in line with the system (the world's approved ways).

I guess there was a reason for him starting to work after a while.

 

[Aaron112]

I guess there was a reason for him starting to work after a while.

Yes, and likewise it was not a hesitancy nor refusal to knucle down to school before he was 16 - not necessarily anyway. It was just not his way at the time to attend school. Compare how many people do "knuckle down" (or just go because they are 'forced') to attend school , and get no benefit, and no work from attending school.

 

[Bradskii]

Yes...

So those reasons determined his actions.

 

[Aaron112]

So those reasons determined his actions.

OR
"

Man's Steps Directed by God​

The concept “man’s reason does not determine his steps, God does” is rooted in various biblical passages. Here are some key verses:

• Proverbs 16:9: “The heart of man plans his way, but the LORD establishes his steps.”
• Jeremiah 10:23: “I, the LORD, declare the end from the beginning, from ancient times—what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’”
• Psalm 37:23: “The steps of a man are established by the LORD, when he delights in his way.”

These verses collectively convey that human plans and intentions are not the ultimate determinants of one’s path. Rather, God’s sovereignty and providence guide and direct our steps, often in ways that surpass our understanding.

Illustrative Examples​

• In Psalm 33:11, it is written, “The plans of the LORD stand firm forever, the purposes of his heart through all generations.” This verse highlights God’s eternal and unchanging nature, emphasizing that His plans are not subject to human whim or caprice.
• In Proverbs 16:1, it is said, “The plans of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD.” This verse underscores the distinction between human intentions and God’s ultimate direction.

Practical Implications​

Recognizing that God determines our steps can have profound implications for our daily lives. It encourages us to:

• Trust in God’s sovereignty, even when our plans seem to falter or fail.
• Seek guidance and direction from Scripture, rather than relying solely on human reason.
• Cultivate a sense of humility and dependence on God, acknowledging that our ways are not His ways (Isaiah 55:8-9).

Ultimately, acknowledging that “man’s reason does not determine his steps, God does” can lead to a deeper understanding of God’s providence and a more surrendered heart, trusting in His goodness and wisdom to guide us through life’s journey."

 

[Bradskii]

The concept “man’s reason does not determine his steps, God does” is rooted in various biblical passages.

That certainly seems to exclude free will.

 

[Aaron112]

That certainly seems to exclude free will.

"seems" being a key word here.

 

[Bradskii]

"seems" being a key word here.

So if God has determined what you do you can decide not to do it?