What’s going on in Tobit

[Tyler52]

Raphael lies? Is Tobias married before or after his wedding, and what’s going on in chapter 8?

“ 2 He remembered Raphael's instructions, so he took the fish's liver and heart out of the bag where he had been keeping them. Then he placed them on the burning incense. 3 The smell drove the demon away from them, and he fled to Egypt.[a] Raphael chased after him and caught him there. At once he bound him hand and foot.”

8:2-3

 

[Hoping2]

Raphael lies? Is Tobias married before or after his wedding, and what’s going on in chapter 8?

“ 2 He remembered Raphael's instructions, so he took the fish's liver and heart out of the bag where he had been keeping them. Then he placed them on the burning incense. 3 The smell drove the demon away from them, and he fled to Egypt.[a] Raphael chased after him and caught him there. At once he bound him hand and foot.”

8:2-3

I couldn't find the name Tobias in the bible.
What are you referring to ?

 

[jas3]

I couldn't find the name Tobias in the bible.
What are you referring to ?

Tobit 1 - Catena Bible & Commentaries

Tobit 1 Patristic Commentaries | Catena Bible & Commentaries

catenabible.com

 

[Hoping2]

Tobit 1 - Catena Bible & Commentaries

Tobit 1 Patristic Commentaries | Catena Bible & Commentaries

catenabible.com

Too much unbiblical stuff there for me to equate it alongside scripture.

 

[jas3]

Raphael lies?

He explains this in chapter 12: "it is good to conceal the secret of a king" (v. 11, also v. 7). Similarly, "it is the glory of God to conceal a matter" (Proverbs 25:2). He does reveal his identity in chapter 12.

Is Tobias married before or after his wedding

He and Sarah are married in ch. 7 v. 13.

and what’s going on in chapter 8?

Tobias is putting exorcism of the demon first before consummating his marriage.

 

[Bob Crowley]

I'm Catholic, although I've never taken much interest in the book of Tobit.

But since the OP raised the question, we need to find out why Tobit was written in the first place.

According to "The Collegeville Bible Commentary, Old Testament" (Collegeville is a Catholic commentary), the reason has to do with the issue of Hellenisation.

"Tobit was written around the beginning of the second century BCE. Alexander the Great's powerful sweep through the Near East had brough Palestine under his domination in 332 BCE. Alexander's death in 323 resulted in a division of his territory, with Syria falling to the Seleucids and Egypt to the Ptolomies. Palestine, a buffer zone between these major powers, was controlled first by the Ptolomies and then, after 198 BCE by the Seleucids. This period was marked by growing Hellenization. Greek customs were adopted, the Greek language became common, and Greek cities were built with gymnasi and hippodromes.

.... the author Tobit wrote for Jews who were concerned about being faithful to God and wo wer questioning God's fidelity to them in the midst of this cultural turmoil.

The author uses several old folk tales- the Grateful Dead, the Monster in the Bridal Chamber, and the Story of Ahiqar - as the framework for his story about two ordinary believers, Tobit and Sarah. ... Each of these faithful people is struck by disaster. Tobit is blinded by bird droppings; Sarah is grieved and humiliated by the sudden deaths of seven successive bridegrooms on the wedding night. The question raised by these crises plagued the faithful Jews uner the domination of the Ptolemies and Seleucids: How can we be virtuours if the only result is increasing darkness and disaster?

... The story shows that, athough God's fidelity may be hidden, human beings are ministers of God's providence, and ordinary human events are the setting for God's faithful care."

The book of Tobit was meant to encourage Jews undergoing a forced process of Helenisation under the Seleucids in particular.

As for verses 8:2-3, "Sarah's healing, however, is not accomplished y means of the fish's heart and liver alone. They are only the physical symbols. Raphael (the angel) pursues the demon after he flees and binds him (8:3). Evn more significantly, Tobiah and Sarah tun to prayer, in accord with Raphae's instructions (8:4-9; compare 6:18). Prayer is an is an important activity throughout the book. At every curcial moment the main characters turn to prayer .... It is this turning to God in prayer that finally delivers Sarah from the demon Asmodeus (who was responsible for killing her previous seven bridegrooms)."

It might sound like a Jewish fairy tale to us but Tobit was written for a reason.

 

[jas3]

According to "The Collegeville Bible Commentary, Old Testament" (Collegeville is a Catholic commentary), the reason has to do with the issue of Hellenisation.

I'm surprised a Catholic commentary would use the explicitly anti-Christian "common era" dating system.

 

[Tyler52]

I'm Catholic, although I've never taken much interest in the book of Tobit.

But since the OP raised the question, we need to find out why Tobit was written in the first place.

According to "The Collegeville Bible Commentary, Old Testament" (Collegeville is a Catholic commentary), the reason has to do with the issue of Hellenisation.



The book of Tobit was meant to encourage Jews undergoing a forced process of Helenisation under the Seleucids in particular.



It might sound like a Jewish fairy tale to us but Tobit was written for a reason.

I'm surprised a Catholic commentary would use the explicitly anti-Christian "common era" dating system.

I’m not surprised, but if this is scripture then how can it have a false author? The author is supposed to be Tobit.

 

[jas3]

I’m not surprised, but if this is scripture then how can it have a false author? The author is supposed to be Tobit.

Well surprisingly the commentary actually attributes the book to Tobit, despite its other issues. You can also find liberal scholars of all stripes who are self-professed Christians or Jews who deny the traditional authorship of the Pentateuch, Daniel, Isaiah, the Gospel accounts, etc.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I’m not surprised, but if this is scripture then how can it have a false author? The author is supposed to be Tobit.

Pseudonymity was a common practice in the ancient world, and doesn't by itself indicate deception. Sometimes deception is the intent, and that should be called out; we see this in heretical works of antiquity which attempt to present themselves as the genuine work of the apostles.

The book of Job, while not claiming to be written by Job, does not discuss an historical person or events; Job is wisdom literature. Job quite likely didn't exist--but that doesn't mean the book of Job is uninspired and unscriptural. Job is divinely inspired Scripture.

The biblical status of Tobit does not depend on Tobit being a real person.

The book of Esther is another example of Scripture that isn't reliant upon total historical accuracy. The book of Esther is actually, as understood in the Jewish tradition, a kind of comedy. It has important lessons to teach, but it's also supposed to be funny.

Esther as Comedy | My Jewish Learning

Esther as Comedy. The Book of Esther. History of Purim. Purim, A Holiday of Reversals. Featured Articles on Purim. Jewish Holidays.

www.myjewishlearning.com

The Bible is a sacred library of books that cover a wide range of genre.

The risque' nature of the Song of Songs, for example, as sexy love poetry doesn't negate its status as Scripture either.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I'm surprised a Catholic commentary would use the explicitly anti-Christian "common era" dating system.

The commentary is authored by scholars who identify as Catholics, but it does not represent an official Catholic Church perspective. It is not patristic in nature; rather, it adopts a scholarly approach. This approach may tend to downplay supernatural elements, focusing instead on archaeological aspects.

 

[RileyG]

Too much unbiblical stuff there for me to equate it alongside scripture.

Tobit is part of the Catholic and Orthodox canon. It’s literally scripture.

 

[RileyG]

I'm Catholic, although I've never taken much interest in the book of Tobit.

But since the OP raised the question, we need to find out why Tobit was written in the first place.

According to "The Collegeville Bible Commentary, Old Testament" (Collegeville is a Catholic commentary), the reason has to do with the issue of Hellenisation.



The book of Tobit was meant to encourage Jews undergoing a forced process of Helenisation under the Seleucids in particular.



It might sound like a Jewish fairy tale to us but Tobit was written for a reason.

It’s very short and very beautiful.

 

[Hoping2]

Tobit is part of the Catholic and Orthodox canon. It’s literally scripture.

Thanks for the heads-up.

 

[RileyG]

Thanks for the heads-up.

You’re welcome

 

[The Liturgist]

Tobit is part of the Catholic and Orthodox canon. It’s literally scripture.

Also the Anglicans use it as well, which is why any complete edition of the King James Version will include it. Under the 39 articles, it is one of the books read for moral edification, but not as a source of doctrine. However, in Orthodoxy, Tobit is not deuterocanonical, but rather protocanonical, in that we don’t really have a deuterocanon, but some books are obviously more important than others (with the four Gospels and the Psalms being the most important).

Indeed one can gauge the relative importance of a book in the various Eastern and Oriental Orthodox liturgies by seeing how many times it appears in the lectionary.

 

[RileyG]

Also the Anglicans use it as well, which is why any complete edition of the King James Version will include it. Under the 39 articles, it is one of the books read for moral edification, but not as a source of doctrine. However, in Orthodoxy, Tobit is not deuterocanonical, but rather protocanonical, in that we don’t really have a deuterocanon, but some books are obviously more important than others (with the four Gospels and the Psalms being the most important).

Indeed one can gauge the relative importance of a book in the various Eastern and Oriental Orthodox liturgies by seeing how many times it appears in the lectionary.

Well said.

 

[The Liturgist]

The commentary is authored by scholars who identify as Catholics, but it does not represent an official Catholic Church perspective. It is not patristic in nature; rather, it adopts a scholarly approach. This approach may tend to downplay supernatural elements, focusing instead on archaeological aspects.

Indeed - that said, I wish your church would crack down on that. Christians need to defend the Anno Domini dating system, since CE is primarily being promoted in order to remove an implied reference to Christianity.

Now, I personally would prefer it if we used as our epoch one of the other traditional Christian epochs, for example, the Coptic Orthodox year of the martyrs. In the Coptic calendar, as my friend @dzheremi can confirm, today is the 17th of Paopi in the Year of the Martyrs 1741. This epoch is dated from the beginning of the Diocletian persecution, which is useful, because we know exactly when that happened, whereas the exact year of the birth of our Lord it has been realized is not year 1, but rather likely between 4 and 6 BC, but we do not know for sure.

The Coptic epoch also happens to memorialize the large number of Christian martyrs.

But I digress. The important thing is that Tobit is a very important book of scripture.

 

[The Liturgist]

Raphael lies? Is Tobias married before or after his wedding, and what’s going on in chapter 8?

“ 2 He remembered Raphael's instructions, so he took the fish's liver and heart out of the bag where he had been keeping them. Then he placed them on the burning incense. 3 The smell drove the demon away from them, and he fled to Egypt.[a] Raphael chased after him and caught him there. At once he bound him hand and foot.”

8:2-3

You might find this commentary by Fr. John Peck to be helpful: Redemption and Salvation in the Book of Tobit. Fr. John Peck

 

[The Liturgist]

The book of Esther is another example of Scripture that isn't reliant upon total historical accuracy. The book of Esther is actually, as understood in the Jewish tradition, a kind of comedy. It has important lessons to teach, but it's also supposed to be funny.

Whereas in Orthodoxy, we have what I believe to be the superior version of Esther, that being the Septuagint version, which is profoundly solemn and pious and puts an emphasis on prayer.