Did the early church worship on Sabbath?

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes there are many similarities but also Paul was not always constant in his message thus the confusion I see from many about the commandments, the new covenant. I could list verses that reflect this but it is outside the scope of this thread but we could discuss later.

Blessings and thank you, it was a good post.

Yes, I would be up for that to take a closer look at his writings. From my experience most of the confusion in Paul's writings is not allowing for the context and sometimes he is just hard to understand But I don't believe he ever went away from what Jesus taught and would never countermand one of God's commandments.

Look how he condemned people for doing this

Romans 2:22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?

 

[Leaf473]

Not only did the Jews come for Sabbath but the Gentiles, and in Acts we see almost the whole city wanted to be there on the Sabbath.

Acts 13:42-44
King James Version (KJV)
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Now we see the Gentiles keep the Sabbath in Antioch as we see Paul when he came there, meeting with them in the synagogue on the Sabbath day.

Acts 13:14
But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

We see much the same in the early church in Thessalonica when Paul as was his manner, entered on three Sabbath days and reasoned with them out of the scriptures.

Acts 17:2
And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

And we see more of the same in the early church in Corinth were Paul went every Sabbath and we clearly see it says "persuaded the Jews and the Greeks."

Acts 18:4
And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

And we see it was the same thing that Christ had done when He was in His ministry before Paul.

Mark 6:2
And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?

Luke 4:16
And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Luke 4:31
And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days.

As had Christ, the Paul worshiped in the early church on the seventh-day Sabbath. We clearly see that in his travels Paul attended the synagogue on the Sabbath with Gentiles and Jews, and preached Christ. Even in places where there was no synagogue, he searched for where the early church met for Sabbath worship.

We find much in history that shows the early church observing the seventh day Sabbath which nearly all Protestant, Orthodox, or Roman Catholic theologians agree was true, and showed that the Sabbath was clearly spread throughout the world in the early church.

Josephus
"There is not any city of the Grecians, nor any of the Barbarians, nor any nation whatsoever, whither our custom of resting on the seventh day hath not come!" M'Clatchie, "Notes and Queries on China and Japan" (edited by Dennys), Vol 4, Nos 7, 8, p.100.

Philo
Declares the seventh day to be a festival, not of this or of that city, but of the universe. M'Clatchie, "Notes and Queries," Vol. 4, 99

Early Christians
"The primitive Christians had a great veneration for the Sabbath, and spent the day in devotion and sermons. And it is not to be doubted but they derived this practice from the Apostles themselves, as appears by several scriptures to the purpose." "Dialogues on the Lord's Day," p. 189. London: 1701, By Dr. T.H. Morer (A Church of England divine).

Early Christians
"...The Sabbath was a strong tie which united them with the life of the whole people, and in keeping the Sabbath holy they followed not only the example but also the command of Jesus." "Geschichte des Sonntags," pp.13, 14

2nd Century Christians
"The Gentile Christians observed also the Sabbath," Gieseler's "Church History," Vol.1, ch. 2, par. 30, 93.

Early Christians
"The primitive Christians did keep the Sabbath of the Jews;...therefore the Christians, for a long time together, did keep their conventions upon the Sabbath, in which some portions of the law were read: and this continued till the time of the Laodicean council." "The Whole Works" of Jeremy Taylor, Vol. IX,p. 416 (R. Heber's Edition, Vol XII, p. 416).

You can find even more in this study..
at https://www.sabbath.org/index.cfm/l...ath-first-day-during-first-five-centuries.htm

How early of an early church are we talking about?

Shortly after Jesus' resurrection, the church probably worshiped on the seventh day, and every day

Worship on the first day, and every day, became more common over time

Eventually, gatherings for worship on the first day replaced those on the 7th

Was this change a movement of God?

Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 1:22 - New Century Version

God put everything under his power and made him the head over everything for the church,

www.biblegateway.com

Christ is the head of his body. Does the body of Christ go against the head? I don't believe it can

 

[SabbathBlessings]

There is no day 1 replacement of the Sabbath commandment in the scriptures. There is no keeping every day one for preaching and reading God's Word, but there is for the Sabbath. Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 We should worship God 365 24/7 but that doesn't take away our moral obligation to obey God's commandments

The apostle can't give or take away God's commandments, nor did they in the scriptures because they are not God.

We are told
Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
So a lot of false teachings came in after the death of the disciples as predicted.

The body follows the Head, not the other way around. Thats why many believers will say Lord Lord at His Second Coming Mat 7:21-23

 

[Leaf473]

There is no day 1 replacement of the Sabbath commandment in the scriptures. There is no keeping every day one for preaching and reading God's Word, but there is for the Sabbath. Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4

The apostle can't give or take away God's commandments, nor did they in the scriptures because they are not God.

We are told
Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
So a lot of false teachings came in after the death of the disciples as predicted.

The body follows the Head, not the other way around. Thats why many believers will say Lord Lord at His Second Coming Mat 7:21-23

Do you believe the entire church apostasized?

Or maybe just most everyone, but a remnant remained?

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 16:18 - New Century Version

So I tell you, you are Peter. On this rock I will build my church, and the power of death will not be able to defeat it.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

And assuming the Apostles did keep the Sabbath, it seems reasonable to assume their observation of it would be in line with that of liturgical churches at present which worship on Saturday and Sunday. We know that they worshipped on Sunday, for example, when the Holy Spirit descended upon them at the third hour (roughly 9 AM), which coincidentally is when most churches have their Sunday worship.

Well, I never claimed that Sabbath keeping ended at the Cross. What I have asserted is that the way in which the Sabbath was being kept during the ministry of Christ our True God was in error, which is why He criticized the Jews for their remarks on how he observed the Sabbath.

For my part, I am a member of a church which worships on Saturday as well as Sunday, and as I see it you have no basis in accusing the Orthodox of not keeping the Sabbath.

In the Orthodox Church, when we celebrate Vigils, this often begins with the Ninth Hour, and the Coptic Orthodox Church always starts with the Ninth Hour, which is on Saturday, so even if one misses the worship on Saturday morning, if one attends the entire Vigils one will worship on the Sabbath. Indeed there are three principle Sabbath prayers in Judaism - night prayer, followed by morning prayer, followed by afternoon prayer.

I will not accept any statements that the Orthodox do not observe Sabbath, because it is not true. You may disagree with how we do it, but since we worship on Saturday, and commemorate the rest of God in the tomb on Sabbath, we observe the Sabbath. And I think it not unreasonable to insist that the Orthodox receive due credit for this fact. Otherwise it is a discredit, particularly to members of the Orthodox faith of Jewish descent, such as my friend @Yeshua HaDerekh .

Being Jews, one would assume the Apostles kept Shabbat. Yes the 3 daily prayers (tefillot) are Shacharit (morning tefillot said after sunrise but before midday when men wear a tallit and wrap tefillin), afternoon minchah and evening maariv.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Then, frankly, you are not in a position to evaluate how much she knows about Scripture compared to any other theologian. If you haven’t compared her writing to those of say, the fourth century fathers such as Saints Athanasius, John Chrysostom, the Cappadocians, Ambrose of Milan, Ephrem the Syrain or other Patristic figures such as Saints Augustine, Vincent of Lerins, or St. John of Damascus, and if you haven’t compared her writing to more recent figures, such as Thomas Aquinas, pioneering Lutheran and Calvinist reformers such as Martin Luther, Philip Melancthon, John Calvin, and John Knox, and leading Anglican thinkers such as Thomas Cranmer, Archbishop Laud and the Caroline Divines, John Wesley, Edward Pusey and so on, or the great Congregationalist preacher Jonathan Edwards and the popular Baptist preacher Charles Spurgeon, or more recent dogmatic and systematic theologians such as Karl Barth, Protopresbyter Michael Pomazansky, Metropolitan Kallistos Ware, et cetera, you’re not in a position to make statements comparing her scriptural knowledge to that of other people.

You can of course assert that she knew a lot of Scripture, but if you have only read her, and the Bible, you are not in a position to compare her knowledge with that of other authors.

Also I would say that only studying the theology of a single person or a single point of view strikes me as profoundly misguided. Only the books of Scripture are God-breathed - many others are important and can be useful, but since we are human, we make mistakes. Some errors of the Roman Catholic Church I believe arose from reading St. Augustine exclusively during the Scholastic era and neglecting other Patristic writers such as St. John Cassian, St. Basil the Great, St. Gregory of Nazianzus, St. Gregory of Nyssa, St. Severus of Antioch and St. Cyril of Alexandria, and even controversial figures such as Origen and Theodore of Mopsuestia.

[/QUOTE]
Why would I need a theologian to guide me, I have far better, the Holy Spirit, the comforter to teach me.

John 14:26 reads:
"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you."

I rely solely on the Holy Spirit Guidance. Do you still think I am misguided?

 

[prodromos]

Why would I need a theologian to guide me, I have far better, the Holy Spirit, the comforter to teach me.

The theologians had the Holy Spirit to guide them also, didn't they?

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

The theologians had the Holy Spirit to guide them also, didn't they?

I do not know these theologians you talk about. anyone in particular worthy of attention you want to discuss? I would certainly consider.

I really do not need any theology courses really. What is given to me to understand by the Lord, I will say, what I do not know I will not speak about. I concentrate on God's words and do not need any outside interference from theologians as some come with their personal bias.

Psalm 32:8 (NKJV): "I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will guide you with My eye."
Proverbs 3:5-6 (NKJV): "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths."
Psalm 119:24 (NKJV): "Your testimonies also are my delight and my counselors."
James 1:5 (NKJV): "If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him."

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

@The Liturgist

Tell me you who are knowledgeable ( this is not sarcasm I mean it) , I have question for you to test you.

In the book of Revelations, chapter 21, the New Jerusalem is discussed in some detail here is an excerpt;

10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal.
12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.
14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Q: Who's name will appear on the twelve foundation?

 

[prodromos]

Q: Who's name will appear on the twelve foundation?

Do you mean the twelfth foundation?

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Do you mean the twelfth foundation?

sorry my bad, being french speaking mostly sometimes, if not too often i make mistakes that change the meaning. the question should have read;

Who's name(s) will appear on the twelve foundation(s)?

Blessings.

 

[HIM]

We are discussing the Sabbath and no scripture says its been abrogated or changed how to observe.

Not true - Colossians 2:16.

Jesus Christ, who is God, did things on the Sabbath that had been assumed to be prohibited, and what is more, He told us how to remember Him - through partaking of His Body and Blood in the Eucharist.

Jesus never said communion was to take the place of the Sabbath. Nowhere is it implied either. The connection that communion has is to the Passover, not the Sabbath.

As Sabbathblessings said Colossians 2:16 must be read and understood within the context of the passages in which it is cited. And that would include what is said in chapter 1 and 3 in this case. Here is the summery of chapter 1. Do you agree with it? Chapter 2 is in context to it's premise. We will move to that when appropriate.

Wherein it is written that there is a hope, an expectation laid up in Heaven for us which we heard in the truth of the Gospel. This expectation is present with us to walk worthy of the Lord. Bearing fruit in every good work. Increasing in the recognition of God. Being endued~ in all power, in accord with the mightiness of His *glory, into all endurance and patience with joy. Giving thanks to the Father. The One who has made and continues to make us competent, partakers of the inheritance of the saints, in *light. Rescuing us out of the power of darkness. Transferring us into the kingdom of His Son of His love. In Whom we have deliverance, the remission, removal of the sins through His blood. And by Him all things consist, are held together.
Reconciled in the body of His flesh through death to present us holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If we continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope (expectation) of the gospel, which we have heard. The expectation laid up in heaven for us. The mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope, expectation of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect, Holy, unblameable and unreprovable in and through Christ Jesus. Being rescued from the power of darkness being translated into the Kingdom, the Body of Christ, the Temple of God. Wherein we labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in us mightily.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jesus never said communion was to take the place of the Sabbath. Nowhere is it implied either. The connection that communion has is to the Passover, not the Sabbath.

Thanks for adding this Truth.

 

[The Liturgist]

Jesus never said communion was to take the place of the Sabbath. Nowhere is it implied either. The connection that communion has is to the Passover, not the Sabbath.

Jesus Christ did tell us to remember Him through the Eucharist, whereas previously the Sabbath was the designated remembrance, which, combined with our Lord’s refusal to conform to the Pharisaical norms concerning Sabbath observation, is interesting. But this is not the only way the Orthodox Church worships on the Sabbath.

appropriate.

Wherein it is written that there is a hope, an expectation laid up in Heaven for us which we heard in the truth of the Gospel. This expectation is present with us to walk worthy of the Lord. Bearing fruit in every good work. Increasing in the recognition of God. Being endued~ in all power, in accord with the mightiness of His *glory, into all endurance and patience with joy. Giving thanks to the Father. The One who has made and continues to make us competent, partakers of the inheritance of the saints, in *light. Rescuing us out of the power of darkness. Transferring us into the kingdom of His Son of His love. In Whom we have deliverance, the remission, removal of the sins through His blood. And by Him all things consist, are held together.
Reconciled in the body of His flesh through death to present us holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If we continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope (expectation) of the gospel, which we have heard. The expectation laid up in heaven for us. The mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope, expectation of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect, Holy, unblameable and unreprovable in and through Christ Jesus. Being rescued from the power of darkness being translated into the Kingdom, the Body of Christ, the Temple of God. Wherein we labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in us mightily.

Do you agree that Jesus Christ is God, one of the three persons of the Holy and Undivided Trinity, God Incarnate? Because here you seem to be treating Jesus Christ and God as separate entities.

 

[HIM]

Do you agree that Jesus Christ is God, one of the three persons of the Holy and Undivided Trinity, God Incarnate? Because here you seem to be treating Jesus Christ and God as separate entities.

Wow all that is written in and of that chapter and that is where you go?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Jesus never said communion was to take the place of the Sabbath. Nowhere is it implied either. The connection that communion has is to the Passover, not the Sabbath.

While I agree that communion has a connection to Pesakh, actually, there IS a connection with Shabbat in Judaism. First, bread and wine are blessed (kiddush) at the initiation of Shabbat the same as at Pesakh. So both of those elements are present. The bread and the wine is then distributed to all present the same as at Pesakh. In Jewish mysticism, the Sabbath Bride (Kallah) or queen is a metaphor for the union of the Jewish community during Shabbat. The Sabbath Bride is said to arrive on Friday night. Lecha Dodi is sung or recited. There are connotations of a marriage supper. It has been said Shabbat was to Israel's relationship with God exactly what a wedding ring is to a marriage relationship. They are both visible signs of a covenant. Same with The Last Supper and to the marriage supper of the lamb in revelation. We all drink from the cup...at Pesakh, at Shabbat, at the Eukarist and in the marriage ceremony. I could go on but you get the meaning I hope...

 

[HIM]

While I agree that communion has a connection to Pesakh, actually, there IS a connection with Shabbat in Judaism. First, bread and wine are blessed (kiddush) at the initiation of Shabbat the same as at Pesakh. So both of those elements are present. The bread and the wine is then distributed to all present the same as at Pesakh.

Hey there, thanks for responding. Is this tradition in regard to the Sabbath written in the Book of the Law?

In Jewish mysticism, the Sabbath Bride (Kallah) or queen is a metaphor for the union of the Jewish community during Shabbat. The Sabbath Bride is said to arrive on Friday night. Lecha Dodi is sung or recited. There are connotations of a marriage supper. It has been said Shabbat was to Israel's relationship with God exactly what a wedding ring is to a marriage relationship. They are both visible signs of a covenant. Same with The Last Supper and to the marriage supper of the lamb in revelation. We all drink from the cup...at Pesakh, at Shabbat, at the Eukarist and in the marriage ceremony. I could go on but you get the meaning I hope...

So you say that there is a connection due to tradition and Jewish mysticism found in the Kabbalah.

The Catholics pretty much have the same stance in regard to traditions being passed down. Do you bow down to Idols and pray to dead people you think are in heaven also? I know you don't At least I hope you don't. I am just trying to make a point.

If we are not using the Word of God through the Spirit for our stance in the Faith of Christ as He did. what is it we are using? And what boundary is there, How far does it go? Is there an end to the adding or subtracting?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Hey there, thanks for responding. Is this tradition in regard to the Sabbath written in the Book of the Law?

So you say that there is a connection due to tradition and Jewish mysticism found in the Kabbalah.

The Catholics pretty much have the same stance in regard to traditions being passed down. Do you bow down to Idols and pray to dead people you think are in heaven also? I know you don't At least I hope you don't. I am just trying to make a point.

If we are not using the Word of God through the Spirit for our stance in the Faith of Christ as He did. what is it we are using? And what boundary is there, How far does it go? Is there an end to the adding or subtracting?

I'm not sure I understand your question. Yes covenants are in the TaNaKh. Bowing down to and praying/worshiping idols is forbidden. I think you need to understand the definitions of words and traditions before you use them. Really from start to finish is our connection to and with The Almighty...a covenant (brit)...a joining with Him and Him with us.

 

[HIM]

I'm not sure I understand your question. Yes covenants are in the TaNaKh. Bowing down to and praying/worshiping idols is forbidden. I think you need to understand the definitions of words and traditions before you use them. Really from start to finish is our connection to and with The Almighty...a covenant (brit)...a joining with Him and Him with us.

There are several questions. Can you answer the first?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

There are several questions. Can you answer the first?

I thought I DID answer it. Did I not? Maybe you can re-frame your question in more detail. What exactly are you asking? Sabbath traditions, marriage traditions ?? Remember Moshe spoke with HaShem on Har Sinai regarding how the torah is to be implemented, some became written Torah and others are from oral Torah. Also, remember, bread and wine were offered to Abraham by Melekhzadik (whose priestly and kingly ministry of El Elyon is assumed by Yeshua).