Starship Flight Five

[AlexB23]

I've been fortunate to see three comets the return Of Halley's comet, Hyakuture and McNaught.
McNaught was by far the most spectacular which I was able to take a tricolour image of.

View attachment 355904​

That is a beautiful comet. I am too young to see comets. Comet C/1 Halley flew by in 1986, around 13 years before I was born. What camera did you use to capture comet McNaught?

 

[sjastro]

Comets are very interesting when you can see them. I've seen a couple. I can understand why ancient people saw them as messengers or "omens" from "gods".

There are a couple movies about missions to comets. There is Deep Impact (1998). There is Lifeforce (1985) which is more of a horror-sci fi movie (original title was Space Vampires).

ESA sent the Rosetta Mission to Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko in 2014 and landed on it with the Philae lander. Philae conducted the first in situ analysis of a comet's nucleus.

Once of my criticisms of scientists they should engage more with the public instead of relying on science writers.
ESA opened a public forum on the Rosetta mission where planetary scientists involved in the mission participated with the public.
I learnt one of the mission objectives was to determine if the origin of water on Earth came from comets by measuring the deuterium/hydrogen D/H and ¹⁸O/¹⁶O oxygen isotopic ratios in water found on Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko.
The ratios were found to differ from Earth's water bringing into question whether comets were the primordial source.

 

[sjastro]

That is a beautiful comet. I am too young to see comets. Comet C/1 Halley flew by in 1986, around 13 years before I was born. What camera did you use to capture comet McNaught?

This was done with a 50mm lens attached to an SBIG-X10ME astronomical CCD camera.

A tricolour exposure combining 6 seconds exposure each through red, green and blue filters.

 

[AlexB23]

This was done with a 50mm lens attached to an SBIG-X10ME astronomical CCD camera.

A tricolour exposure combining 6 seconds exposure each through red, green and blue filters.

Fancy tech. How much does one of these SBIG's cost? No wonder why comets look so bright in the astrophotography collections in periodicals, books, and on the internet.

Could one of these SBIG cameras be attached to a satellite, or would the tech not be radiation hardened enough or heat/cold resistant enough for space usage? Imagine the clarity of the images if we sent this in orbit. In other words, what are the operating temps for a CCD such as this one?

 

[Servus]

That is a beautiful comet. I am too young to see comets. Comet C/1 Halley flew by in 1986, around 13 years before I was born. What camera did you use to capture comet McNaught?

Halley's comet will next appear in 2061 when you're my age.

 

[sjastro]

Fancy tech. How much does one of these SBIG's cost? No wonder why comets look so bright in the astrophotography collections in periodicals, books, and on the internet.

Could one of these SBIG cameras be attached to a satellite, or would the tech not be radiation hardened enough or heat/cold resistant enough for space usage? Imagine the clarity of the images if we sent this in orbit. In other words, what are the operating temps for a CCD such as this one?

From what I recall the SBIG cost around $9000 US dollars with a colour filter wheel and operates at around -20⁰ C.
This is peanuts compared to what is used on the JWST, they are not CCDs but HgCdTe-based (Mercury Cadmium Telluride) infrared detectors manufactured by Teledyne.

These detectors operate at temperatures as low as -266.5⁰ C and are believed to cost between 500,000 to 1,000,000 US dollars.

 

[AlexB23]

From what I recall the SBIG cost around $9000 US dollars with a colour filter wheel and operates at around -20⁰ C.
This is peanuts compared to what is used on the JWST, they are not CCDs but HgCdTe-based (Mercury Cadmium Telluride) infrared detectors manufactured by Teledyne.

View attachment 355905​

These detectors operate in the range -233⁰ C to -236⁰ C are are believed to cost between 500,000 to 1,000,000 US dollars.

Damn son... $9 grand for a camera sensor, and -20C (-4F) for cooling? Also, wow, $500K to $1M for space based detectors?

Why doesn't NASA use more consumer grade detectors, at least on Mars Rovers or on satellites? I know space telescopes need high-end detectors, but just to snap a photo of a Martian sunset, a rover does not need an expensive camera? (I know nothing about space tech).

 

[AlexB23]

Halley's comet will next appear in 2061 when you're my age.

If the world does not end before then (cough, cough Russia and China). I am excited for that moment though.

 

[Servus]

If the world does not end before then (cough, cough Russia and China). I am excited for that moment though.

I was worried about the world ending back in the 80s. And it probably will end for me personally before 2061.

 

[AlexB23]

I was worried about the world ending back in the 80s. And it probably will end for me personally before 2061.

Remember, when someone says the world will end by [insert year], it will most likely not end by [insert year], as only God the Father knows the hour of Christ's return.

Barring end times, or no accidents, maybe the ~2080s or early 2090s will be when Christ calls me home.

 

[sjastro]

Damn son... $9 grand for a camera sensor, and -20C (-4F) for cooling? Also, wow, $500K to $1M for space based detectors?

Why doesn't NASA use more consumer grade detectors, at least on Mars Rovers or on satellites? I know space telescopes need high-end detectors, but just to snap a photo of a Martian sunset, a rover does not need an expensive camera? (I know nothing about space tech).

The Mars rovers use CCD and CMOS sensors to image in tricolour for daylight scenes in the visible spectrum.
Since the main mission of JWST is to study the early universe where distant galaxies are redshifted into the infrared range makes these sensors useless.

The infrared sensors on the JWST are not off the shelf items, they were custom made and millions of dollars were invested into developing extreme cryogenic performance to minimize noise and improve detector sensitivity.

 

[rockytopva]

 

[Hans Blaster]

Damn son... $9 grand for a camera sensor, and -20C (-4F) for cooling? Also, wow, $500K to $1M for space based detectors?

Why doesn't NASA use more consumer grade detectors, at least on Mars Rovers or on satellites? I know space telescopes need high-end detectors, but just to snap a photo of a Martian sunset, a rover does not need an expensive camera? (I know nothing about space tech).

Part of the reason can be expressed in why the space industry uses gold as a reflective material with gold foils providing thermal protection -- when material cost is a small part of the cost of putting things up there, why not use the best material.

The other (and more important reason) is commercial products do not have the capabilities that professional, scientific work requires. These instruments aren't just snapping photos, but taking images where each pixel might be a scientific measurement. Precise calibration, low noise, and durability in the harsh environment are all requirements that are not needed in an Australian back yard.

Astronomers have been building their own custom detectors for a very long time, from photoelectric detectors to some of the earliest CCDs. They are not unlike other experimentalists who build their own equipment (or software).

 

[Larniavc]

The booster catch was incredible to watch!

Truly. When I realised it was going to land and be caught I was amazed. One if the most amazing feats of engineering this young man has ever seen.

 

[Sif]

Truly. When I realised it was going to land and be caught I was amazed. One if the most amazing feats of engineering this young man has ever seen.

I was also amazed that they got a buoy so close the the starship splashdown area in the Indian Ocean to get such up close images.

 

[AlexB23]

The Mars rovers use CCD and CMOS sensors to image in tricolour for daylight scenes in the visible spectrum.
Since the main mission of JWST is to study the early universe where distant galaxies are redshifted into the infrared range makes these sensors useless.

The infrared sensors on the JWST are not off the shelf items, they were custom made and millions of dollars were invested into developing extreme cryogenic performance to minimize noise and improve detector sensitivity.

That is interesting. The JWST must use dedicated custom hardware to image the IR spectrum. No wonder why the JWST was delayed from a 2014 launch to 2018 and finally to 2021. Got to make sure everything is tested and in working order.

My Samsung Galaxy A54 phone camera is better than the Curiosity Rover camera though, which is kinda funny. Even the iPhone 5 back in 2012 had better camera quality compared to that rover.

Curiosity Rover vs. iPhone:

The iPhone and the Curiosity Rover: Specs Compared

They might seem thousands of miles apart, but the iPhone and the rover have a lot in common.

www.pcmag.com

 

[AlexB23]

Part of the reason can be expressed in why the space industry uses gold as a reflective material with gold foils providing thermal protection -- when material cost is a small part of the cost of putting things up there, why not use the best material.

The other (and more important reason) is commercial products do not have the capabilities that professional, scientific work requires. These instruments aren't just snapping photos, but taking images where each pixel might be a scientific measurement. Precise calibration, low noise, and durability in the harsh environment are all requirements that are not needed in an Australian back yard.

Astronomers have been building their own custom detectors for a very long time, from photoelectric detectors to some of the earliest CCDs. They are not unlike other experimentalists who build their own equipment (or software).

Gold does seem like an expensive material, but it has phenomenal thermal qualities. So basically what you are saying is that commercial cameras are not color and noise calibrated as much as custom detectors? So, it is better to have a 2MP camera that costs say $10,000 vs a 50 MP camera that costs $100? Astronomers are pretty cool folks, at the intersection of science, photography and physics/chemistry (as in with spectrometers).

 

[Hans Blaster]

Gold does seem like an expensive material, but it has phenomenal thermal qualities. So basically what you are saying is that commercial cameras are not color and noise calibrated as much as custom detectors? So, it is better to have a 2MP camera that costs say $10,000 vs a 50 MP camera that costs $100? Astronomers are pretty cool folks, at the intersection of science, photography and physics/chemistry (as in with spectrometers).

How about a $170 M cyrogenically chilled camera with 3200 MP .

Camera

 

[AlexB23]

How about a $170 M cyrogenically chilled camera with 3200 MP .

Camera

Wow, that is very expensive. At least it is 3.2 gigapixels. Imagine if the sensors died, the cost to replace the parts. $170M camera the size of a car, and yet Captain Kirk's portable tricorder has more resolution. JK

 

[rockytopva]

"Even rockets need hugs." - Elon Musk

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