How Snakes Lost Their Legs

[tonychanyt]

There are two perspectives: vertical and horizontal:

Vertically, Genesis 3:

1a Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made.

This was a serpent-beast before God cursed it.

14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, “Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.

Horizontally, its descendants, the snakes (i.e., Suborder Serpentes), used to wander the Earth on legs about 150 million years ago before they shifted from strut to slither.

 

[AV1611VET]

There are two perspectives: vertical and horizontal:

Vertically, Genesis 3:


Horizontally, snakes used to wander the Earth on legs about 150 million years ago, before they shifted from strut to slither.

It wasn't a snake per se.

It was a beast of the field.

Possible a serpent beast.

 

[tonychanyt]

It wasn't a snake per se.

It was a beast of the field.

Possible a serpent beast.

That's clear and precise thinking, brother. I incorporated your point into my OP. Take another look. Feel free to follow up. Thanks

 

[AV1611VET]

God bless you, Tony!

I'm impressed with your vast knowledge of Scripture!

 

[Diamond72]

It wasn't a snake per se.

It was a beast of the field.

Possible a serpent beast.

One Hundred million years ago snakes started off as lizards, reptiles along side of the dinosaurs. People believe snakes likely lost their legs to adapt to life underground, hunting and living in burrows. Genesis 3:14b "You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.'"

Lizards, turtles, and crocodilians survived the flood conditions that took out the dinosaurs. I suppose YEC believe they were on Noah's ark and that is how they survived not because they can handle very wet conditions.

 

[Diamond72]

It wasn't a snake per se.

It was a beast of the field.

Possible a serpent beast.

Do you remember the classic Geico commercial! It's a fun piece of pop culture where the famous Geico Gecko and the cavemen characters added humor to insurance ads. While it's a playful take, it interestingly reflects how even commercials can evolve and adapt, blending different elements to create memorable moments.

 

[Rose_bud]

There are two perspectives: vertical and horizontal:

Vertically, Genesis 3:


This was a serpent-beast before God cursed it.


Horizontally, its descendants, the snakes (i.e., Suborder Serpentes), used to wander the Earth on legs about 150 million years ago before they shifted from strut to slither.

Im of the view that this is not literal, but rather poetic prophecy. This created being that deceived, will be humbled and brought low. To eat dust was a metaphor for being brought low or humbled or bow down.

 

[bèlla]

Im of the view that this is not literal, but rather poetic prophecy.

It isn't poetic. Christ's instruction to be wise as serpents is referencing Genesis 6. He possessed something the others didn't that's why satan chose him. We're reminded of the attribute and its usefulness with the sons of this age in the parable. That's why it's called the shrewd manager. That's the tool we need.

~bella

 

[Rose_bud]

It isn't poetic. Christ's instruction to be wise as serpents is referencing Genesis 6. He possessed something the others didn't that's why satan chose him. We're reminded of the attribute and its usefulness with the sons of this age in the parable. That's why it's called the shrewd manager. That's the tool we need.

~bella

Hi bella

Hope you are well.

I'm not sure who you referring to when you say "He possessed" and how this relates to Genesis 6. Maybe you can clarify?

The reason for me saying that this is poetic prophecy is due to the curse pronounced on the deceptive being and how he will be overcome in the prophecy given to the Eve and ultimately those who out their trust in Christ.

The curse of the serpent can also be seen as prophetic relating to Genesis 3:15. Where the phrase "on your belly you shall go, and you shall eat dust all the days of your life" (Genesis 3:14) may not only be a physical description of the serpent's new state but a metaphorical one.

In this sense, the prophetic judgement is that the offspring of Eve (humanity) would have dominion over the serpent and its spiritual descendants (evil forces). The phrase "you shall eat dust" has similar imagery Micah 7:17 and Psalm 72:9. In these passages, the context is God humbling the enemy and declaring the exalted state of his chosen vessels. Even in Isaiah it speaks of a nation's bowing down before the king, licking the dust.

Micah 7:16-17
Nations will see and be ashamed, deprived of all their power. They will put their hands over their mouths and their ears will become deaf. They will lick dust like a snake, like creatures that crawl on the ground. They will come trembling out of their dens; they will turn in fear to the Lord our God and will be afraid of you.

Psalms 72:8-12 a royal Psalm of a king
May he rule from sea to sea and from the River to the ends of the earth. May the desert tribes bow before him and his enemies lick the dust. May the kings of Tarshish and of distant shores bring tribute to him. May the kings of Sheba and Seba present him gifts. May all kings bow down to him and all nations serve him. For he will deliver the needy who cry out, the afflicted who have no one to help.

Isaiah 49:23
Kings will be your foster fathers, and their queens your nursing mothers. They will bow down before you with their faces to the ground; they will lick the dust at your feet. Then you will know that I am the Lord; those who hope in me will not be disappointed.”

Isaiah 65:25 is in light of the new heaven and earth. Evil will be thoroughly dealt with.

[The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, and dust will be the serpent’s food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain,” says the Lord.

The serpent's defeat and humiliation and eventual destruction prophetically announced in the beginning.

The serpent would be brought low. The serpent, once a lofty and cunning creature, tempting and deceiving would be brought low. The contrast a serpent high and exalted being would be brought low and humbled before the throne of God

"And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring, He shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel."

So, in this sense, the curse is not only a punishment but also a prophetic declaration of the ultimate triumph of the Promised Seed (Jesus), who would crush the serpent's head. Jesus would humble and defeat his enemy.

 

[bèlla]

Hi bella

Hope you are well.

I'm doing quite well Rose Bud. I hope you're equally blessed and prospering.

I'm not sure who you referring to when you say "He possessed" and how this relates to Genesis 6. Maybe you can clarify?

The serpent is described as crafty in Genesis. Some versions say cunning or shrewd instead. He wasn't like the others in that regard. He could speak and permitted the devil to use his mouth that's why he was judged. She didn't know she was talking to the devil. She thought it was the serpent. That's why she said he deceived her and he did.

His craftiness wasn't guile. It was something the Lord bestowed that made him shrewd. He wasn't deceived by the devil. He knew what he was and acted anyway. When we're dealing with children of darkness you can't use your natural mind. We don't think alike and you'll underestimate them. You have to think like a snake to deal with them. But we don't act like one. That's the caveat.

There are two judgments pronounced in the text. One for the serpent and the other for the devil. They're not one and the same.

~bella

 

[Diamond72]

To eat dust was a metaphor for being brought low or humbled or bow down.

I had a cat that tried to get the rabbits under the shed but failed. Then she had kittens and the smaller kitten went down the rabbit hole and chased the rabbits out. It is the same with snakes, they can go into tight places to get moles and chipmunks and things like that.

 

[tonychanyt]

Im of the view that this is not literal, but rather poetic prophecy.

I believe both

 

[Rose_bud]

I'm doing quite well Rose Bud. I hope you're equally blessed and prospering.

Amen, thank you.

The serpent is described as crafty in Genesis. Some versions say cunning or shrewd instead. He wasn't like the others in that regard. He could speak and permitted the devil to use his mouth that's why he was judged. She didn't know she was talking to the devil. She thought it was the serpent. That's why she said he deceived her and he did.

His craftiness wasn't guile. It was something the Lord bestowed that made him shrewd. He wasn't deceived by the devil. He knew what he was and acted anyway. When we're dealing with children of darkness you can't use your natural mind. We don't think alike and you'll underestimate them. You have to think like a snake to deal with them. But we don't act like one. That's the caveat.

There are two judgments pronounced in the text. One for the serpent and the other for the devil. They're not one and the same.

~bella

This is an interesting perspective, one I'm not very familiar with.

So are you saying the first vessel of deception was another created being? or God created this being with the innate capacity to be an instrument of deception. The judgement for this being is that it will no longer have legs, whereas the source that possessed it would be the one at enmity with humanity?

What would be your view on
Revelation 12:9

The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Revelation 20:2
He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

These passages refer to the serpent, Satan and Devil as the same entity.

Also in the New Testament Jesus is tempted in the wilderness with parallels to Eden, yet there appears to be no medium of deception other than Satan?

 

[Diamond72]

I believe both

The Rabbi say that the Bible can have up to 100 layers of meaning. It all depends on what part of the elephant you have your hands on. The Bible's layers of meaning can feel like an intricate tapestry, with endless threads to pull. Each reading, context, and interpretation can reveal something new. It’s like how different people describe the same elephant differently, depending on which part they're touching.

 

[Diamond72]

The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Many scholars and theologians view the serpent in the Genesis story as an allegorical figure. In this interpretation, the serpent represents more than just a literal snake; it symbolizes temptation, deceit, and the presence of evil. This allegorical approach allows for deeper, more universal themes to be explored, like the nature of sin, the consequences of disobedience, and the struggle between good and evil.

 

[Diamond72]

It wasn't a snake per se.

It was a beast of the field.

Possible a serpent beast.

Do you talk to animals?

 

[AV1611VET]

One Hundred million years ago snakes started off as lizards, reptiles along side of the dinosaurs. People believe snakes likely lost their legs to adapt to life underground, hunting and living in burrows. Genesis 3:14b "You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.'"

Um ... are you implying 100 million years then passed suddenly after God said that, and this serpent beast lost its legs and became a snake in a moment of time?

 

[AV1611VET]

Do you talk to animals?

You bet I do!

And when I say "GIT!" our cat had better git!

 

[tonychanyt]

So are you saying the first vessel of deception was another created being? or God created this being with the innate capacity to be an instrument of deception. The judgement for this being is that it will no longer have legs, whereas the source that possessed it would be the one at enmity with humanity?

Great questions. See The developmental character of satan and follow up there

 

[Rose_bud]

Many scholars and theologians view the serpent in the Genesis story as an allegorical figure. In this interpretation, the serpent represents more than just a literal snake; it symbolizes temptation, deceit, and the presence of evil. This allegorical approach allows for deeper, more universal themes to be explored, like the nature of sin, the consequences of disobedience, and the struggle between good and evil.

This topic has some interesting nuances...to me at least (Those with linguistic insight are most welcome to correct my limited Hebrew understanding and usage)

Nachash (Strongs 5172 and 5173)
Refer to nachash as a serpent but also an enchanter, diviner or seductive whisperer. Referring to Satan's subtle deception.

If for a moment we read the passage without the preconceived notion that this is a physical snake. And replace the physical snake with the following rendering, it reveals something interesting.

Now the [enchanter, diviner, seductive whisperer] was more crafty than any of the [created beings] the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

The woman said to the [enchanter, diviner, seductive whisperer] , “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ 

With this reading one can reconcile a talking "snake" and it does give credence to God's strong warnings regarding divination and sorcery in Deuteronomy and Leviticus. Additionally Paul's strong warning against lies and deception of the enemy.

Also, the chapter does not describe the physical characters, but rather relay their actions.

So their is no description of the nachash, but rather what he represents and in ANE serpents were regarded as divine. (thinking of Pharoahs headdress).

Eve is curious, vulnerable and gullible, Adam is complicit and passive. The sepernt is crafty and deceptive. God is present, merciful and just and gracious.