Shouldn't all Evangelicals want Christian Nationalism?

[Maria Billingsley]

Why do you believe government should be devoid of all Christian influence?

Our Father does not want a Theocracy on earth. Simple as that. Christian influence is a whole other matter. Righteousness is boundless when exercised through His Holy Spirit. An earthly institution is not boundless, it is structured in flesh driven agendas and power. It is unable to reach the lost because it is based on the law not the heart.

Each Christian is responsible for their own actions therefore present themselves as Holy vessels. This is better achieved outside of government however, if a Christian must participate in government, he or she should do so in love , albeit nearly impossible. We can see the ugliness in government right now mainly through those who claim a strong Christian faith. This is what Christian Nationalism does to Christians. No love.

 

[bèlla]

How about imposing severe penalties for blasphemy against your Lord and God?

You can't do that. It contradicts freedom of speech. This isn't a theocracy and no one has to accept christianity.

~bella

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

How about imposing severe penalties for blasphemy against your Lord and God?

I am ok with that.

But can we differentiate between Christian Nationalism and Christian Trumpism? Especially a Manichean Christian Trumpism?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I am ok with that.

But can we differentiate between Christian Nationalism and Christian Trumpism? Especially a Manichean Christian Trumpism?

Manichean Christian Trumpism?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

You can't do that. It contradicts freedom of speech. This isn't a theocracy and no one has to accept christianity.

~bella

Well you could do that if Christians had power. My question to you would be, in a Christian government would this be wrong? Would it also be wrong to want to advocate for such a form of government?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Our Father does not want a Theocracy on earth. Simple as that. Christian influence is a whole other matter. Righteousness is boundless when exercised through His Holy Spirit. An earthly institution is not boundless, it is structured in flesh driven agendas and power. It is unable to reach the lost because it is based on the law not the heart.

Each Christian is responsible for their own actions therefore present themselves as Holy vessels. This is better achieved outside of government however, if a Christian must participate in government, he or she should do so in love , albeit nearly impossible. We can see the ugliness in government right now mainly through those who claim a strong Christian faith. This is what Christian Nationalism does to Christians. No love.

So as Christians you advocate that we should be politically powerless?

Also have you ever read the Christian Nationalists themselves? Or just their detractors?

 

[bèlla]

Well you could do that if Christians had power. My question to you would be, in a Christian government would this be wrong? Would it also be wrong to want to advocate for such a form of government?

This isn't a christian government. Nor would I support penalties against blasphemy in a country that allows other faiths and freedom of speech. You may not agree with their statement. But you can't punish them for that. Unless you're willing to endure the same for contradicting behavior you don't agree with.

~bella

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

This isn't a christian government. Nor would I support penalties against blasphemy in a country that allows other faiths and freedom of speech. You may not agree with their statement. But you can't punish them for that. Unless you're willing to endure the same for contradicting behavior you don't agree with.

~bella

In a Christian political community, why can't said community punish blasphemy? Is freedom to blaspheme a Christian value?

 

[lismore]

Hello! While it is good for believers to speak up for justice and righteousness everywhere including in the political sphere, to speak up for the oppressed like the aborted babies and to be good citizens perhaps we should not forget that:

Philippians 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ.

John 18:36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world"

1 Peter 2:11 Beloved, remember you don’t belong in this world. You are resident aliens living in exile, so resist those desires of the flesh that battle against the soul.

Believers can't get too comfortable with the world, worldly leaders or worldly structures, because we are not of this world. IMHO when a church gets too cozy with a worldly structure, for all the influence it exerts on the world the world also has an inroad to exert influence on the church. The ultimate example of the folly of Christian Nationalism would be Europe and WW1- 'For the glory of God'. WW1 is often cited as the No1 reason for the collapse of Christian Faith in Europe. Other examples would be state churches and some of the grotesque things they have to do to keep their position as a state church (for example church pastors officiating at LGBQTI pride events), the church married to a slippery slope to hell, the poison of the apostate nation coming into Christianity.

God Bless All

 

[Maria Billingsley]

So as Christians you advocate that we should be politically powerless?

Also have you ever read the Christian Nationalists themselves? Or just their detractors?

Powerless? I do not rely on this kind of power. I rely on the power of God through His Holy Spirit. We are commanded to spread the Gospel to the harvest. Government, especially ours with its party lines, makes this impossible.

As far as reading about Christian Nationalism yes, I have done extensive research on the movement including watching it slowly unfold in government now. Additionally, I have family members so I have first hand experience.

 

[bèlla]

In a Christian political community, why can't said community punish blasphemy? Is freedom to blaspheme a Christian value?

America isn't a theocracy or christian political community. If you wish to form a private group and administer laws that members agree with that's your choice. But they can't transgress the nation's laws and if you're sued you'll lose. Nor can the beliefs and practices of a private community be imposed on the population at large.

~bella

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Powerless? I do not rely on this kind of power. I rely on the power of God through His Holy Spirit. We are commanded to spread the Gospel to the harvest. Government, especially ours with its party lines, makes this impossible.

As far as reading about Christian Nationalism yes, I have done extensive research on the movement including watching it slowly unfold in government now. Additionally, I have family members so I have first hand experience.

Is this a universal Christian principle? For all Christians at all times? That power belongs to Non Christians?

So I gather you actually haven't read the Christian Nationalists themselves? Because you accuse them of lying when they are pretty upfront about what they want.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

America isn't a theocracy or christian political community. If you wish to form a private group and administer laws that members agree with that's your choice. But they can't transgress the nation's laws and if you're sued you'll lose. Nor can the beliefs and practices of a private community be imposed on the population at large.

~bella

I beg to differ. Values of a minority can be imposed on a large population. Historically that's how it's always happened and the USA is no exception. The values of your founders were a minority at the time as were the values of many Presidential terms.

Many things which were unpopular became popular through government mandate or implementation. Democracy or the will of the people doesn't have much power when compared to the ruling minority. It's how it's always been.

 

[lismore]

If you just mean that you would enjoy living in a country that's made up entirely of Christians, all following the faith and practice of a particular church -- I agree that could be a good place to live in. I had a conversation with a family member just yesterday in which we were envisioning a community (not a country, but maybe a town) in which everyone was Quaker, or, alternatively, everyone was Episcopalian, and everyone in the town was following the same religious customs and values together as a community. That could be a nice experience.

Hello Plover! Interesting idea, I would just have certain reservations.

Believers are called to be salt and light, how would withdrawing all the believers from their communities into a nice little bubble bring any benefit to a dying world?

And we have only to look at the number of New Testament letters where the Apostle Paul calls out believers for treating one another badly, or where Jesus does the same in the gospels, or Ezekiel 34, to see that Christians living together would just be creating a similar set of social problems to the world. God Bless

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Is this a universal Christian principle? For all Christians at all times? That power belongs to Non Christians?

So I gather you actually haven't read the Christian Nationalists themselves? Because you accuse them of lying when they are pretty upfront about what they want.

Thanks for engaging. Our conversation is no longer fruitful. Be blessed.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Manichean Christian Trumpism?

Yes, Trump = good, all who oppose him = evil

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Thanks for engaging. Our conversation is no longer fruitful. Be blessed.

I agree. Mostly because you have not thought out the consequences. Being a political serf and Dhimmi have consequences. Not all of us want to be dominated.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

This isn't a christian government. Nor would I support penalties against blasphemy in a country that allows other faiths and freedom of speech. You may not agree with their statement. But you can't punish them for that. Unless you're willing to endure the same for contradicting behavior you don't agree with.

~bella

Right, I forgot about the foundation of our democracy. But Christian Nationalism can dispense with all that.

 

[bèlla]

Many things which were unpopular became popular through government mandate or implementation. Democracy or the will of the people doesn't have much power when compared to the ruling minority. It's how it's always been.

You will not impose christian nationalism on this nation without a fight. They will take up arms to prevent it.

~bella

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Yes, Trump = good, all who oppose him = evil

When did Trump become part of this conversation?