WHY IN ACTS 9:17 and 18 SAY THIS ?

[Ain't Zwinglian]

We don't HAVE to be baptized for our salvation.

So is baptism optional for the Christian?

 

[AV1611VET]

So is baptism optional for the Christian?

It is an ordinance; not a sacrament.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

It is an ordinance; not a sacrament.

Non responsive. Do you believe baptism is optional for the Christian. It is a simple yes or no question.

 

[AV1611VET]

Non responsive. Do you believe baptism is optional for the Christian. It is a simple yes or no question.

Yes -- baptism is optional.

So is salvation.

You can opt to do it, and you can opt not to do it.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Yes -- baptism is optional.

So is salvation.

You can opt to do it, and you can opt not to do it.

Wow! Such contempt for baptism and salvation. I am sorry for your answer.

I am out of this conversation.

 

[AV1611VET]

Wow! Such contempt for baptism and salvation. I am sorry for your answer.

I am out of this conversation.

???

 

[Aristarkos]

???

Baptism is probably the biggest divider in Christianity and one of the reasons is that salvation has become almost synonym with water baptism. I think you're still moderate with what you said about it "You can opt to do it, and you can opt not to do it.". There is one who enjoys the strive, muddling the waters for millennia.

Do we need to be baptized? Yes, but not with water and not by men. We need to be baptized by Christ with Holy Spirit and then by God into Christ's death, which can only be accomplished by faith.

Aristarkos

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Yes, but not with water and not by men.

This sounds too Charismatic/Pentecostal for me.

 

[David Lamb]

Baptism is probably the biggest divider in Christianity and one of the reasons is that salvation has become almost synonym with water baptism. I think you're still moderate with what you said about it "You can opt to do it, and you can opt not to do it.". There is one who enjoys the strive, muddling the waters for millennia.

Do we need to be baptized? Yes, but not with water and not by men. We need to be baptized by Christ with Holy Spirit and then by God into Christ's death, which can only be accomplished by faith.

Aristarkos

I agree with your final sentence: "We need to be baptized by Christ with Holy Spirit and then by God into Christ's death, which can only be accomplished by faith." But that doesn't mean that once we are believers, we shouldn't be baptized in water:

“36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, "See, [here is] water. What hinders me from being baptized?" 37 Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." 38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. 39 Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing.” (Ac 8:36-39 NKJV)

Philip there was fulfilling Christ's command to His followers:

“"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” (Mt 28:19 NKJV)

 

[AV1611VET]

Baptism is probably the biggest divider in Christianity and one of the reasons is that salvation has become almost synonym with water baptism. I think you're still moderate with what you said about it "You can opt to do it, and you can opt not to do it.". There is one who enjoys the strive, muddling the waters for millennia.

I think you're being a bit unfair to me.

I first said baptism was an ordinance, not a sacrament.

Then, when someone chimed in and pressed me to answer if it was an "option," I answered with respect to his choice of words -- not mine.

We take baptism very seriously, and our brothers and sisters in Christ in the past paid with their lives for requiring their converts to be scripturally baptized.

We consider baptism as "the first act of obedience after salvation."

I knew what he was doing though -- taking it out of the realm of "sacrament" or "ordinance" and putting it into the realm of "option."

But if people want to play that game with me, I will not disappoint them.

I will answer their questions as they wrote them, even if I know they aren't going to like it.

As I'm fond of saying:

Be careful what you ask me; I just might answer you.

 

[AV1611VET]

I agree with your final sentence: "We need to be baptized by Christ with Holy Spirit and then by God into Christ's death, which can only be accomplished by faith." But that doesn't mean that once we are believers, we shouldn't be baptized in water:

Zwig probably thought he had me there with that question, but he doesn't now me very well.

I answered it with respect to his wording, and he vacated the conversation.

C'est la vie, I guess.

 

[ARBITER01]

This sounds too Charismatic/Pentecostal for me.

In other words, it's too mature for you and you are unable to understand it? lol

Maybe at some point you will see how Spiritual baptism is what births us into His body.

 

[Aristarkos]

I agree with your final sentence: "We need to be baptized by Christ with Holy Spirit and then by God into Christ's death, which can only be accomplished by faith." But that doesn't mean that once we are believers, we shouldn't be baptized in water:

“36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, "See, [here is] water. What hinders me from being baptized?" 37 Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." 38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. 39 Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing.” (Ac 8:36-39 NKJV)

Philip there was fulfilling Christ's command to His followers:

“"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” (Mt 28:19 NKJV)

That's where we are on a different path, Mt. 28:19 has never ever been used by the 12, find it if you can. I mean find any text that says they were baptizing like Mt. 28:19 says. We only read about the baptism of John and that his baptism is with water: Mark 1:4 and 5 "4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins."

So I say according to Scripture we don't need any water baptism what so ever, but we do need the other two, but like I said, men can not give that to you.

Aristarkos

 

[Aristarkos]

I think you're being a bit unfair to me.

That was not my intention, I apologize for the misunderstanding

Aristarkos

 

[AV1611VET]

That was not my intention, I apologize for the misunderstanding

Aristarkos

No offense taken, my friend.

 

[Dan Perez]

No offense taken, my friend.

And there is ONLY one Baptism that really counts and is written by the Apostle Paul in 1 Cor 12:13 and reads , even by one

Spirit we were all BAPTIZO // PLACED , is in the Greek PASSIVE VOICE , meaning it is the HOLY SPIRIT that is PLACING all that

accept Jesus as savior , Rom 10:9 and 10 , INTO ONE BODY , whether Jews or Greeks , whether slaves or free , and were all

given to drink into one Spirit .

Paul NEVER BAPTIZED any one 1 Cor 1:15 as the Greek word LEST // ME , is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE and

means he NEVER baptized or water // hudor anyone should say that I had BAPTIZED // BAPTISO ,

FOR MY NAME ,!!

dan p

 

[AV1611VET]

And there is ONLY one Baptism that really counts ...

Counts for what?

Initial Sanctification or Progressive Sanctification?*

* We teach three types of sanctification:

1. Initial Sanctification = moment of salvation = baptized in Christ
2. Progressive Sanctification = water baptism, then growing in grace, walking with the LORD, etc
3. Complete Sanctification = occurs at death, given white robes, new home in Heaven, etc

So if you're saying that there's only one baptism that really counts for salvation, I agree.

It's being baptized in Christ.

 

[Dan Perez]

Counts for what?

Initial Sanctification or Progressive Sanctification?*

* We teach three types of sanctification:

1. Initial Sanctification = moment of salvation = baptized in Christ
2. Progressive Sanctification = water baptism, then growing in grace, walking with the LORD, etc
3. Complete Sanctification = occurs at death, given white robes, new home in Heaven, etc

So if you're saying that there's only one baptism that really counts for salvation, I agree.

It's being baptized in Christ.

I have given you the correct answer in 1 Cor 12:13 when every believer si PLACED into the BODY of Christ at the time of salvation , is CLEAR to me !!

Since you do not believe 1 Cor 12:13 ?

Your thoughts on Rom 6:3 , Or are you IGNORANT , that as many as were BAPTIZED into Christ were BAPTIZED into his Death /

If anyone believes in WATER // HUDOR , BAPTISM , how is anyone BAPTIZED into his DEATH ? 1 Cor 15:29 ?

dan p

 

[AV1611VET]

I have given you the correct answer in 1 Cor 12:13 when every believer si PLACED into the BODY of Christ at the time of salvation , is CLEAR to me !!

Okay, Dan.

Have a good day.

Come back when you're ready to listen.

 

[Dan Perez]

Okay, Dan.

Have a good day.

Come back when you're ready to listen.

All you have to do is reply , to what I wrote in the above post , of 1 Cor 12:13 and in 1 Cor 15:29 ? Or what about

Rom 6:3 where , many were BAPTIZED // BAPTIZO INTO Christ Jesus were BAPTIZED // BAPTISO into his Death .

Question is how is anyone BAPTIED / BAPTISO into Christ Jesus into his Death ??

Simple answer !! Right

Then in Rom 6:4 we were buried together with Him BAPTISM into the DEATH ?

Since I do not believe in WATER // HDOR , BAPTISM , it is easy for me to answer //

So rely when you can with your thoughts ?? Have a good day ??

dan p